Water/Methanol Injection....Which Kit and WHY?
01-01-2006, 06:37 PM
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Water/Methanol Injection....Which Kit and WHY?
I've been reading the other threads on this and I was wondering if anyone experienced can give a pro/con on the different companies out there.
I'm leaning towards the Snow Performance Stage II Kit simply because it seems to be the most simple but complete kit out thereand I am not a fan of over complicating a simple solution...
I would also like to see some more pictures on where people installed the pump/tank....I read that the pump has to be below the tank which tells me that the window washer tank is out of the picture for this even though it would be the perfect solution otherwise....For those who installed the tank in the cabin, did you install the pump in the cabin as well and how did you route the lines?
Since my linelocks are in the brake reservoir area I can not mount the pump there so what other options are there?
Snow Performance:
Pros/Cons
AquaMist:
Pros/Cons
CoolingMist:
Pros/Cons
I'm ready to get my kit so please post
Thanks!!!
I'm leaning towards the Snow Performance Stage II Kit simply because it seems to be the most simple but complete kit out thereand I am not a fan of over complicating a simple solution...
I would also like to see some more pictures on where people installed the pump/tank....I read that the pump has to be below the tank which tells me that the window washer tank is out of the picture for this even though it would be the perfect solution otherwise....For those who installed the tank in the cabin, did you install the pump in the cabin as well and how did you route the lines?
Since my linelocks are in the brake reservoir area I can not mount the pump there so what other options are there?
Snow Performance:
Pros/Cons
AquaMist:
Pros/Cons
CoolingMist:
Pros/Cons
I'm ready to get my kit so please post
Thanks!!!
01-01-2006, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by westpak
I guess my first comment is whether you need it, what kind of boost are you running or plan on running?
01-01-2006, 07:13 PM
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Maybe & Maybe Not...
Increased Vision619s Stillen kit's power 10% when finally working properly at 8 lbs of boost. However - Definitely makes a mess. Depending on the use, might be an advantage to non-boost altering systems like Stillen if you already have the Stage Whatever Pulley and you want more power and don't want to TT your car.
I wouldn't use it on NA or a TT car though. With TT - there is already enough to think about in most set-ups, particularly in a built TT pushing 500 WHP/Torque.
Goodluck and Happy New Year.
Michael
VRT
www.ViolentRacing.com
Increased Vision619s Stillen kit's power 10% when finally working properly at 8 lbs of boost. However - Definitely makes a mess. Depending on the use, might be an advantage to non-boost altering systems like Stillen if you already have the Stage Whatever Pulley and you want more power and don't want to TT your car.
I wouldn't use it on NA or a TT car though. With TT - there is already enough to think about in most set-ups, particularly in a built TT pushing 500 WHP/Torque.
Goodluck and Happy New Year.
Michael
VRT
www.ViolentRacing.com
Last edited by mraturbo; 01-01-2006 at 07:16 PM.
01-01-2006, 07:20 PM
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with all due respect but can we get back on the subject please.
I'm not looking for a depate on If but WHiCH kit and install locations...
Based on quite a bit of reading it's seems to be a great solution for added safety on high pressure while using pump gas that's why I want it....
Thanks
I'm not looking for a depate on If but WHiCH kit and install locations...
Based on quite a bit of reading it's seems to be a great solution for added safety on high pressure while using pump gas that's why I want it....
Thanks
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01-01-2006, 10:31 PM
#10
I went with the Snow Performance 220 psi kit.
The reason I chose this one is because of its high pressure capability. Higher pressure will do a better job of atomizing the injection fluid. A finer mist will yield faster evaporation rates (cooling) and better distribution of the mist in complex flow channels like the plenum.
Larger droplets created by lower pressure pumps won't vaporize as quickly. When in a air flow stream, the larger droplets will also tend to round out a turn when flowing quickly around sharp turns. If injecting before the TB, when the mist comes into the goose neck of the plenum, the mist will have a tendancy to be directed toward the left side of the plenum (runners 1,3 & 5). Large droplets will also coalesce or stick more easily on the plenum walls and surfaces.
So for a given amount of fluid injected, higher pressure can allow for smaller nozzles which create a finer mist. For the same flow rate, the finer mist will have a greater cooling capasity and a more homogenous distribution among all cylinders. So this was my reasoning for going with the 220 psi Snow performance kit.
If Snow Performance didn't offer the very high pressure pump, I may have chosen a different brand. I think I can deal with all the other smaller details, but to me the most critical factor is pressure.
If I need to vary the flow rate with RPM or load, I'll just use the Greddy EU and 1 or 2 auxilary injectors to ramp the injection flow rate as needed.
The reason I chose this one is because of its high pressure capability. Higher pressure will do a better job of atomizing the injection fluid. A finer mist will yield faster evaporation rates (cooling) and better distribution of the mist in complex flow channels like the plenum.
Larger droplets created by lower pressure pumps won't vaporize as quickly. When in a air flow stream, the larger droplets will also tend to round out a turn when flowing quickly around sharp turns. If injecting before the TB, when the mist comes into the goose neck of the plenum, the mist will have a tendancy to be directed toward the left side of the plenum (runners 1,3 & 5). Large droplets will also coalesce or stick more easily on the plenum walls and surfaces.
So for a given amount of fluid injected, higher pressure can allow for smaller nozzles which create a finer mist. For the same flow rate, the finer mist will have a greater cooling capasity and a more homogenous distribution among all cylinders. So this was my reasoning for going with the 220 psi Snow performance kit.
If Snow Performance didn't offer the very high pressure pump, I may have chosen a different brand. I think I can deal with all the other smaller details, but to me the most critical factor is pressure.
If I need to vary the flow rate with RPM or load, I'll just use the Greddy EU and 1 or 2 auxilary injectors to ramp the injection flow rate as needed.
Last edited by Hydrazine; 01-01-2006 at 10:37 PM.
01-01-2006, 10:32 PM
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Ive also been searching the SRT forums to find out what they have been doing. The car comes turbo'ed and thought there would be more info there. I found this
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194415
There are also other good posts on the subject.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194415
There are also other good posts on the subject.
Last edited by G352NV; 01-01-2006 at 10:34 PM.
01-01-2006, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine
I went with the Snow Performance 220 psi kit.
The reason I chose this one is because of its high pressure capability. Higher pressure will do a better job of atomizing the injection fluid. A finer mist will yield faster evaporation rates (cooling) and better distribution of the mist in complex flow channels like the plenum.
Larger droplets created by lower pressure pumps won't vaporize as quickly. When in a air flow stream, the larger droplets will also tend to round out a turn when flowing quickly around sharp turns. If injecting before the TB, when the mist comes into the goose neck of the plenum, the mist will have a tendancy to be directed toward the left side of the plenum (runners 1,3 & 5). Large droplets will also coalesce or stick more easily on the plenum walls and surfaces.
So for a given amount of fluid injected, higher pressure can allow for smaller nozzles which create a finer mist. For the same flow rate, the finer mist will have a greater cooling capasity and a more homogenous distribution among all cylinders. So this was my reasoning for going with the 220 psi Snow performance kit.
If Snow Performance didn't offer the very high pressure pump, I may have chosen a different brand. I think I can deal with all the other smaller details, but to me the most critical factor is pressure.
If I need to vary the flow rate with RPM or load, I'll just use the Greddy EU and 1 or 2 auxilary injectors to ramp the injection flow rate as needed.
The reason I chose this one is because of its high pressure capability. Higher pressure will do a better job of atomizing the injection fluid. A finer mist will yield faster evaporation rates (cooling) and better distribution of the mist in complex flow channels like the plenum.
Larger droplets created by lower pressure pumps won't vaporize as quickly. When in a air flow stream, the larger droplets will also tend to round out a turn when flowing quickly around sharp turns. If injecting before the TB, when the mist comes into the goose neck of the plenum, the mist will have a tendancy to be directed toward the left side of the plenum (runners 1,3 & 5). Large droplets will also coalesce or stick more easily on the plenum walls and surfaces.
So for a given amount of fluid injected, higher pressure can allow for smaller nozzles which create a finer mist. For the same flow rate, the finer mist will have a greater cooling capasity and a more homogenous distribution among all cylinders. So this was my reasoning for going with the 220 psi Snow performance kit.
If Snow Performance didn't offer the very high pressure pump, I may have chosen a different brand. I think I can deal with all the other smaller details, but to me the most critical factor is pressure.
If I need to vary the flow rate with RPM or load, I'll just use the Greddy EU and 1 or 2 auxilary injectors to ramp the injection flow rate as needed.
01-02-2006, 06:09 AM
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I went with (have not installed yet) CoolingMist. Since it also has a high pressure pump, dual stage that you can adjust each independent based on boost, many other options (flow detector for each injector, clog detector for each injector, filters, water tanks, ...), and they are located close to me. I can understand water injection based on boost.
I did not look at Snow since CoolingMist is so close and there customer service is excellet, plus they have a 7 day a week help line.
I looked at Aquamist and stayed away since they where more expensive, not as high PSI pump, and they are a lot more complicated. I need to understand how the system works, don't really understand maping water based on fuel.
Also, you will not make more hp by just injecting water/methanol unless you have problems with knock right now, you will probably loose power. You need to tune the engine once it is done to unlock the potential. You can:
- Advance timing (slower flame speed w/ water)
- Lean out the A/F (cooling affects of water)
- increase boost (anti-detonating affect)
Do a search on water injection and you will find more info.
I did not look at Snow since CoolingMist is so close and there customer service is excellet, plus they have a 7 day a week help line.
I looked at Aquamist and stayed away since they where more expensive, not as high PSI pump, and they are a lot more complicated. I need to understand how the system works, don't really understand maping water based on fuel.
Also, you will not make more hp by just injecting water/methanol unless you have problems with knock right now, you will probably loose power. You need to tune the engine once it is done to unlock the potential. You can:
- Advance timing (slower flame speed w/ water)
- Lean out the A/F (cooling affects of water)
- increase boost (anti-detonating affect)
Do a search on water injection and you will find more info.
01-02-2006, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MoodDude
I went with (have not installed yet) CoolingMist. Since it also has a high pressure pump, dual stage that you can adjust each independent based on boost, many other options (flow detector for each injector, clog detector for each injector, filters, water tanks, ...), and they are located close to me. I can understand water injection based on boost.
I did not look at Snow since CoolingMist is so close and there customer service is excellet, plus they have a 7 day a week help line.
I looked at Aquamist and stayed away since they where more expensive, not as high PSI pump, and they are a lot more complicated. I need to understand how the system works, don't really understand maping water based on fuel.
Also, you will not make more hp by just injecting water/methanol unless you have problems with knock right now, you will probably loose power. You need to tune the engine once it is done to unlock the potential. You can:
- Advance timing (slower flame speed w/ water)
- Lean out the A/F (cooling affects of water)
- increase boost (anti-detonating affect)
Do a search on water injection and you will find more info.
I did not look at Snow since CoolingMist is so close and there customer service is excellet, plus they have a 7 day a week help line.
I looked at Aquamist and stayed away since they where more expensive, not as high PSI pump, and they are a lot more complicated. I need to understand how the system works, don't really understand maping water based on fuel.
Also, you will not make more hp by just injecting water/methanol unless you have problems with knock right now, you will probably loose power. You need to tune the engine once it is done to unlock the potential. You can:
- Advance timing (slower flame speed w/ water)
- Lean out the A/F (cooling affects of water)
- increase boost (anti-detonating affect)
Do a search on water injection and you will find more info.
01-02-2006, 11:15 AM
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Oh, one last reason I went with the dual stage - if one nozzle gets clogged (and they will) I still have one spraying. What psi are you trying to get to?
- My goal is 12psi on stock internals and running rich. I am not going to play with APS's fuel map! Plus, I can turn off the H2O injection, turn down the boost and run like today still.
- My goal is 12psi on stock internals and running rich. I am not going to play with APS's fuel map! Plus, I can turn off the H2O injection, turn down the boost and run like today still.
01-02-2006, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MoodDude
Oh, one last reason I went with the dual stage - if one nozzle gets clogged (and they will) I still have one spraying. What psi are you trying to get to?
- My goal is 12psi on stock internals and running rich. I am not going to play with APS's fuel map! Plus, I can turn off the H2O injection, turn down the boost and run like today still.
- My goal is 12psi on stock internals and running rich. I am not going to play with APS's fuel map! Plus, I can turn off the H2O injection, turn down the boost and run like today still.
why will the nozzle get clocked? shouldn't water/methanol take care of the cleaning, from what I read it serves as an internal engine cleaner as well, I can think of any reason for the nozzle to get clogged
01-02-2006, 11:32 AM
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Unless you are planning on using demineralized water, it will get clogged. It won't when it is pushing water out, but when it is not. Hard water deposits on it and eventually it will get clogged. Talk to all of the manufactures and they will tell you the same thing. They recommend replacing the nozzles every year.
I did talk to bigbri and one thing he did that I am not is change the actuators on the wastegates to get to 15psi. I will probably only get to 10.5-11.5psi on the APS actuators. This is what I was getting when I added the test pipes. I turned down the boost with a boost controller for now until I get WI.
I did talk to bigbri and one thing he did that I am not is change the actuators on the wastegates to get to 15psi. I will probably only get to 10.5-11.5psi on the APS actuators. This is what I was getting when I added the test pipes. I turned down the boost with a boost controller for now until I get WI.
01-02-2006, 12:17 PM
#19
Originally Posted by MoodDude
Unless you are planning on using demineralized water, it will get clogged. It won't when it is pushing water out, but when it is not. Hard water deposits on it and eventually it will get clogged. Talk to all of the manufactures and they will tell you the same thing. They recommend replacing the nozzles every year.
I did talk to bigbri and one thing he did that I am not is change the actuators on the wastegates to get to 15psi. I will probably only get to 10.5-11.5psi on the APS actuators. This is what I was getting when I added the test pipes. I turned down the boost with a boost controller for now until I get WI.
I did talk to bigbri and one thing he did that I am not is change the actuators on the wastegates to get to 15psi. I will probably only get to 10.5-11.5psi on the APS actuators. This is what I was getting when I added the test pipes. I turned down the boost with a boost controller for now until I get WI.
01-02-2006, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MoodDude
Unless you are planning on using demineralized water, it will get clogged. It won't when it is pushing water out, but when it is not. Hard water deposits on it and eventually it will get clogged. Talk to all of the manufactures and they will tell you the same thing. They recommend replacing the nozzles every year.
I did talk to bigbri and one thing he did that I am not is change the actuators on the wastegates to get to 15psi. I will probably only get to 10.5-11.5psi on the APS actuators. This is what I was getting when I added the test pipes. I turned down the boost with a boost controller for now until I get WI.
I did talk to bigbri and one thing he did that I am not is change the actuators on the wastegates to get to 15psi. I will probably only get to 10.5-11.5psi on the APS actuators. This is what I was getting when I added the test pipes. I turned down the boost with a boost controller for now until I get WI.
I wonder if the Power Juice from Snowperformance uses that...that would be very cool since it already has the perfect mix of water and methanol
