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30 September 2008
Paul Gover
Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.
It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.
"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.
Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.
He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.
"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.
Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.
But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.
"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.
"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
- Herald Sun
Sour grapes? Maybe Porsche should take this as a wake up call.
Whether they are right or wrong, I believe coming out with the tests they did will not fare well for the German automaker.
Hard to prove there is no bias when it's a manufacturer making the claim.
Werd...
Considering the differences in their time compared to all of the other companies that have done their own testing... that seems to be waaaaaay off. Had it been a few seconds off I'd understand but damn... 20+ seconds
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gatti-man "I never claimed to have any skill"
Yeah, but the benchmark that was set for Nissan was the Turbo and GT2 so they HAD to match or beat the time or the car would have been scoffed at by the press and general supercar buying population.
I was also extremely surprised that a car heavier with similar power in its first year of production could beat a car that has been around for years with years of racing development.
AWD on a dry course is a hindrance and extra weight, on a long fast course like the Nurburgring Nordschleife so how an AWD car that is heavier with the same power could beat a RWD car thats lighter is beyond me. Its almost 13 miles long in the Nordschleife setup so AWD is not helping on that track. I just figured they had a really good driver and really good time. Sometimes that happens.
I guess Porsche was in just as much disbelief as the rest of the world was and tested the car. Turns out everybody's disbelief was right.
AWD on a dry course is a hindrance and extra weight, on a long fast course like the Nurburgring Nordschleife so how an AWD car that is heavier with the same power could beat a RWD car thats lighter is beyond me. Its almost 13 miles long in the Nordschleife setup so AWD is not helping on that track. I just figured they had a really good driver and really good time. Sometimes that happens.
Efficient use of power for traction is my guess.
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gatti-man "I never claimed to have any skill"
what cry babies..............thats gotta tell you something when they wanna test their own cars against a GTR............
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
also, they didnt have a pro driver driving......some engineer that "kinda" races here every now and then doesnt duplicate what nissan did to set their 7:29 time.....
a pro race car driver can pull 20+ seconds over a chassis development engineer that claims to be an expert at nurburgring......heck...the prodrivers they choose have experience at all kinds of tracks and conditions that help them on test day...
-j
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04 PPW Touring - My favorite mod is my short Dodge Avenger antenna
I wouldn't be surprised, but the GTR should be matching the Turbo's performance based on all the comparison tests in the magazines. they have similar weights, same power (the GTR is making what? 50hp more than they claim or something?) but the nissan has the better transmission from what it seems and is not a rear engined car. and doesn't the GTR have two available tire options?
yada yada yada... I know. the problem is there are just too many variables. Nissan had it on film. that is evidence enough no matter how they acheived it... you can't prove it unless they admit it.
but there is no way it's 25 seconds off. that is stupid.
what cry babies..............thats gotta tell you something when they wanna test their own cars against a GTR............
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
also, they didnt have a pro driver driving......some engineer that "kinda" races here every now and then doesnt duplicate what nissan did to set their 7:29 time.....
a pro race car driver can pull 20+ seconds over a chassis development engineer that claims to be an expert at nurburgring......heck...the prodrivers they choose have experience at all kinds of tracks and conditions that help them on test day...
-j
i was agreeing with porsche until i read that part too. why would you have your engineer run the car? hes not a pro... thats why hes an engineer
Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating...
