apsilon

But that graph only shows the difference adding the Unichip to a car that already has a HiTech Catback. As Murray said no one (AFAIK) has posted a graph with a Unichip installed before so who's to say what the increase should be.

Seems they got roughly an 8% increase by adding the Unichip to a car that already had an exhaust.

I would like to see the base graph prior to installing the Hitech. Afterall an 8% increase with an exhaust isn't necessarily going to be an 8% increase on a completely stock car.

zuff

I'm pretty sure the Unichip will sell best with the exhaust as a combo deal anyway. APS has done some great package deals for the WRX market.

It won't be different here.

APS

No problem and hopefully I can post some more graphs over the coming weeks and you are correct the OZ spec Z should run on 98 RON fuel. By the way what do you believe the stock power to be for the 350 Z?

We have tested a fair number of Z cars over the last 12 months and I believe that the real peak power number for a stock Z is lower than was is being reported by some owners, I will investigate this issue more over the next few months and let you know what we find, maybe the engine power is very sensitive to how many kms are on the engine and the type of premium unleaded fuel being used.

Peter

APS

APS

That's so true, the difference between the before and after power graphs is what shows the real story.In addition looking at power and torque across the entire rpm range is a much better gauge of useable power (rather than only looking at the peak power figure).

Peter

APS

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

Peter, It could be all the reasons stated...

Engine power is very sensitive to how many kms are on the engine, the type of premium unleaded fuel being used, the temperature, if they've strapped it down correctly, if the dyno has been tuned, the tire pressure, how much crap they have watered the fuel down with etc etc

Have you gone here:

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=60106

And clicked on the peoples names below the list of power figures, it links to the peoples different dyno charts which have been scanned in etc.

APS

Well thanks for that I was really pleased with the power result from the Unichip computer and so was the customer, in fact the owner was stoked with the improvement ......in particular the crisper engine response and smooth delivery of the power.

We mapped the air fuel ratios and ignition timing across all rpm and load sites (17 by 12) 204 positions in all.

We have not look at the cam timing area as of now.

Peter

APS

APS

Well you have me confuse on this issue, what % are you referring to?

Peter

APS

APS

Correct, All APS performed was an installation of the Unichip computer to the owners car (the Z had a H/T cat back exhaust fitted) and tune the engine to have the best timing and air/fuel ratios across the entire RPM range.

The before power graph was the power of the engine with the exhaust only and the after power graph was of the unichip installed and tuned in conjunction with the exhaust system.

Peter

APS

APS

Well all of what you stated can impact on power readings for sure,though I still believe that the power figures that have been posted by forum members are very optimistic power figures. I notice that 2 of the members have the identical exhaust systems on a Z car (from your link) though there is approx 10 kw's difference between the 2 cars. Don't you find this strange? This seems very strange to me for a Japanese N/A engine.

Peter

APS

apsilon

Well if I'm looking at the same two i don't think 10kw is that big a difference considering they were on different dynos. I've seen bigger differences than that for the same car on different dynos.

APS

You must be joking .....right. I just can't accept that as a reasonable explanation, I have tested the same car on 4 different Dyno dynamic dynos on the same day and the power was within 1 to 2 kW's from all 4 dynos. I think there must be a real problem with dyno operators in some places if you believe that.

Peter

APS

apsilon

I'd partially agree with that. The other part of the issue is maintenance of the dyno. Some places are well maintained, others are rarely touched once they're installed.

There are also plenty of places that deliberatly have them read high "So workshop xyz could only tune your car to 126kw? Well we managed 139kw. Those guys don't really know what they're doing so it's no surprise really." In reality they only work they've done is a power run, printed the graph and prepared the invoice. It happens. People who don't know any better get sucked in then tell their mates how this other workshop got more power for you and they all go there as well.

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

10kw is a big difference, but these are the numbers people are getting so how can we argue that?

Look at it this way, is it possible for someone to setup a dyno differently(incorrectly) using the software settings and get it to return a number with a 10kw difference?

If this in theory is possible then I dont see why you can't accept that a 10kw difference is possible from dyno to dyno.

Its exactly what Matt here has said. Not everyone is running their dyno how it should be run.

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

APS:

So is the fuel cut at 7000rpm possible for the manual zed as the automatic zed gets that fuel cut rpm...

cheers,

richie

APS

richie, I have never looked or worked on the Z with an auto trans so I can't input to this issue at the moment. I will chase this up in the coming months as we need to verify the APS TT system fitment on the auto version and I am sure we will know what is possible then.

Peter

APS

APS

Yeah I understand where your coming from though we should not accept FUNNY dyno figures.

Of course it's possible to achieve a FALSE DYNO reading it only takes the operator to not follow the correct procedure and the entire test is meaningless. Here's a couple of points to consider.

1) Make sure the tyre pressures are set to a predetermined setting and always make sure this setting is correct before the dyno test.

2) Make sure the dyno operator ties the car onto the dyno correctly and in an identical method for every dyno test (the car should not move foward in a perfect world) or the test is meaningless, you will achieve a different power figure by up to 15 kW's.

3) Make sure dyno operator enters all of the environmental conditions off the weather station so that the dyno computer processes with the right power corrections.

4) Make sure that the dyno test is conducted at the same/similar engine temperature where possible as variance in engine temperature will definitely cause a power variance.

These are only a few reasons why there are many incorrect power readings floating around internet sites and on forums.

Hope this help you guys to better understand more about correct power measurement, if it's not correct and/or if the dyno measurement is not 99% repeatable in my view it's all a waste of time and energy.

Peter

APS

bobprang

Are there any APS agents in NZ?

MR RIZK

iTrader: (7)

All this talk over +/- 5 kw. Who gives a f%ck. My K&N filter made 55 kebabawatts on the kebabometer.

Like it has been said before it is the percentage that is important. If the dyno is not calibrated on the before run and is still not calibrated on your after run the percentage still should be fairly accurate unless the error factor is not consistant.

I understand your concerns. You pay ~$1000 for a ecu you want it to perform as stated.

Not pointing fingers but as Peter mentioned it is also up to the operator to keep factors consistent. So what guarantee do you have that APS will be consistent either?

Like they say all due care no responsibility.

When I had mine dyno'd I used the same dyno, air temp, tyre pressure etc. But how do I know it was strapped down the same amount. Come on guys it is impossible to know unless there is a scale under each roller to measure the pressure. Also there was no gain from the dyno place as I did not buy the product from them and there is no tuning involved.

At the end of the day Peter will stand by his product and I'm sure that he must have a satisfaction guarantee. Just make it clear of your intentions PRIOR to purchase or have it in writing.

Just trying to put it in perspective. A ecu and a exhaust will not give you the driving experience you are all after. The UNICHIP is a good unit but it ain't the answer. It is part of the whole solution. Now where is my platinum card !!!

Also I think Peter mentioned timing was not changed. So why not just get a SAFC II ? and save some dough.

Peter I also understand your concerns after dynoing so many Z's and comparing to our results. Take a step back and have a look at the target market of these cars. There is not really any reason for us to fugde numbers. The car is slow not matter which way you look at it and still will be slow with a HT/Amuse/HKS/Trust exhaust + ecu. The drive ability will be increased which is what Peter has already mentioned.

PS: You want you Z to go quicker make it lighter.

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

Mr Rizk,

The other Peter here in Sydney used the SAFC II on his race car and killed an engine. As a result he doesnt use it anymore.

PS: I agree with the weight statement. I think everyone, including Matt, would enjoy the car more if it was lighter. That or implement enough handling improvements and power upgrades to overcome the weight.


APS,

Does the Unichip allow for the ECUs ability to learn and change maps based on different circumstances?

If so how does it handle these changes?

This is the main problem with all the piggyback ECUs on the market at the moment for the Zed. If the Unichip doesnt handle this differently then its no different from any of the other solutions. Without allowing for these on the fly adjustments the Unichip tuning will be thrown out resulting in inconsistant results and/or possible damage.

ypwpat

Make it lighter? Cool now w ere is my AU$30000

i think, That how much it's cost to get all Amuse part
1x CF front bumper
2x CF Front Fender
1x CF Bonnet
2x CF door
1x CF Hatch
1x CF rear Bumper?
All Titanium Exhaust
Uprate the ECU
Lighter Wheels (Amuse uses 18" CE28N with 265 tyres all round)
Recaro Seats

That shed about 120 kg with 309 ps

The Amuse 350Z blast the Amuse S2000 and the 350ps Espirit 350Z (way mile ahead).

Cheers
Yun