cuda510

Thanks for the info.

commasense

Car: 2003 Track, bone stock except for SS brake lines.
Tires: Toyo RA1, 275-40/17 all around (last year); Toyo R888 275-40/17 all around (this year, two days)


Call me a cheapskate, but as gas prices approach $4.00, I'm almost as concerned about price and life in the pads I buy as performance. Especially since I don't race, only run HPDE.

So I'm relatively unhappy with the two latest new pads I've tried: Cobalt XR-2 and Hawk DTC-70. Both performed fairly well on track, although off track they were both very noisy. (My car is also a semi-daily driver, and I don't always bother to switch pads between track events.)

When I took the XR-2's off after six track days (reasonable life) I was dismayed to see that the pad material on some of them had fallen apart, and that there were metal rivets that had scored my rotors slightly. I had never seen this in pads before, and didn't know to expect it.

I had to change the DTC-70s out after only four days, which is less life than I'd like to see for a $250 set of pads. On removing them, I found that on all four pads, the pad material on the trailing half of the pad had separated from the backing plate. (See the pictures.) I've never seen this before.

So I'm not happy with either of these pads. I liked the PFC-01, but apparently they're not made anymore. My favorite pad was the Cobalt Spec VR, which I once used for nine track days! But it's also been discontinued. I was hoping that Cobalt's replacement, the XR-2, would be similar, but as you can see, that wasn't the case.

I've stepped down to the Hawk HT-10, which clearly doesn't have the bite and grip of the DTC-70 or XR-2, but is also significantly cheaper. I also have a set of DTC-60s to try out.

Has anyone else had problems with pad material separating from the backing plate?

(The trailing edge separated, so in the picture, the pair on the left are from the left wheel and the right ones are from the right wheel.)

JETPILOT

iTrader: (51)

I was soooo going to get these DTC-70's.

JET

mhoward1

For street and track use (non-competition), i would really recommend the BHP pads

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

i will be replacing my DTC-70's up front and will definitely be on the look-out for the pad separation. i am using them with stoptech ST-40 calipers.

MaddMatt

Commasense:

:O I would absolutely take that up with Hawk. That is extremely dangerous.

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

Exact same thing happened to my XR-2's. They worked well, but crumbled early in its life. The brass rivets shouldn't score your rotors, as they are soft. But, with that said, one of the reasons why the pad material crumbed was BECAUSE Cobalt Friction uses the brass rivets to anchor the pad in place. Once the rivets contact the rotor and deflect, they crack the pad material. I won't be using their pads anymore.

My Raybestos ST-43's are holding out really well. I'm actually getting way more life from them than I anticipated; quite possibly 9-10 days as opposed to my usual 6 days. The ST-41 have more bite, but wore quicker (for me).

commasense

They definitely scored my rotors slightly. It was shallow enough that I decided not to replace the rotors, but they left an impression.

Yeah, I suppose I should.

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

I ran a set of custom cut (for 2006 base calipers) DTC70s and didn't have that pad separation problem. That's definately a manufacturing defect and should be brought to Hawk's attention.

RandomHer0

iTrader: (9)

Manufacturer: BHP http://www.bhpbrakes.com/
Compound: CR6
Operating temperature range: Ambient to 1000F
Coefficient of friction: N/A
Brake system: OEM Brembo
Application: TRACK
Price paid: $313
Durability: Only 1 track day so far on them...
Rotors friendliness: Easy on Rotors

Track: Shannonville Motorsport Park (Long Track)

Date: May 23rd 2008
Car: 2003 G35C
Tires:Avon Tech R-Compound 275/45/17

This year I wanted to step up my baking power, R-Compound with Hawk HPS were fading out on me last year at the same track, same conditions, after maybe 3-4 laps.

My initial reaction was to step up the the HAWK HP+, but Hawk doesn't make HPS+ for the front Brembo caliperes but they do for the rear

I read this thread, and contacted MaddMatt about his line of Brake Pad, who was more than helpfull when we spoke on the phone about my needs. I am a firm believer in helping a small company out if I can. So I took a shot and bought the CR6 Pad that Matt had recommened.

Initial impressions after bedding them were, the hotter they seem to get the better they bite. At the same time I replaced my rotors, so brand new Rotors and brand new CR6 pads. The pads didn't chew up the rotors, and I was able to do 10-15 hot laps with these pads without fade. The only reason I would stop is to cool myself and the car down.

I am througholy impressed with not only the trackability but street use as well, obviously they are alot more "touchy" but I like it.

I recommend these pads to anyone that whats a step up from HPS but can't find what they are looking for, and want a happy medium. I will be a repeat customer no doubt.

OPTIMO

Just out of curiosity, are Carbotech pads squeelers? I have XP10 front and rear just swapped on for VIR this week, running Centric blank rotors. I sprayed the back of the pads with anti-seize/squeel but damn these things are loud!

Looking forward to VIR this week and again in 2 weeks.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Hawk makes HPS and HP + for both Brembo and non Brembo calipers

Slow*Jim

iTrader: (5)

So are Porterfield R4's still the only option for 07-08 non-brembo brakes?

dmoffitt

iTrader: (4)

I did when it happened to my HT10s, they pretty much told me to f-off because they're track pads.

Did you drive them on the street at all? That could have caused heat-cycling from it being more frictional forces and less adhesive ones stopping the car (no film of pad on the rotor since they'd be operating too cold)?

PS 4 days isn't bad, that is the upper limit of what I get on any manufacturer's product at the track.

RandomHer0

iTrader: (9)

I just checked their website and you're right...I swear to god I couldn't find HP Plus before. Either way I'm more than satisfied with BHP.

ke0ki2k

iTrader: (2)

will Project Mu HC+ pads (06-08 standard brakes) hold up through NASA time trials and HPDE's?

JETPILOT

iTrader: (51)

Manufacturer: HAWK
Compound: DTC-70 / DTC-60
Operating temperature range: 400-1600 F
Coefficient of friction: Unknown
Brake system: Stoptech ST40 355mm F / OEM Brembo rear
Application: Sebring HPDE
Price paid: $450
Durability: High Durability
Rotors friendliness: Very Rotor Friendly

General impressions: These pads have huge initial bite when they get up to temp with no fade. These pads were very easy to modulate. I used the DTC-70 up front with the DTC-60 in the rear. The rotors looked new after 5 20 minute sessions. I have a full weight 565whp car and these were up to the task on a 95 degree day at Sebring. I'm impressed.

z-u-later

iTrader: (43)

Manufacturer: Ferodo
Compound: DS 2500
Operating temperature range: MOT of around 1,000 degrees F
Coefficient of friction: 0.47
Brake system: OEM Brembos / StopTech SS brake lines / Motul RBF600 brake fluid
Application: Street / Race
Price paid: $119 Front / $85 Rear
Durability: Highly durable
Rotors friendliness: Good
<O</O
General impressions: I installed these pads a few weeks ago and have not really had a chance to test them on the track until this past weekend. On the streets, the pads produced some noise when cold. I participated in a PCA DE this weekend at H2R, a new track in South Texas. The track is a 1.8 mile asphalt road course, with nine corners and multiple elevation changes. The DE was setup counter-clockwise on the track, which is very technical and really hard on the brakes.

We did four 20-minute sessions, with the weather temperature in South Texas at almost 100 degrees. I had my r-compounds for the DE -- Hankook Z211 275/40/17s mounted on 17x9 rims on all four corners. The pads gripped hard & were very linear. I did not experienced brake fad at any time, to the point where I had enough confidence on the brakes at the end of the day that I was taking the Z at almost 100mph (3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear redline) approaching a couple of very tight corners. The pads seemed to work much better as they get heated.

I am extremely impressed with these pads. These pads on Brembos, coupled with SS brake lines and DOT-4 brake fluid makes for a very nice track combination. I’ll find out how these pads are for autocross next weekend.

Here is the layout of the H2R track in San Marcos:

Fab_vr6

hey guys, where is a good online place to buy the Raybesto ST41, 43? For stock brembo

dmoffitt

iTrader: (4)

looks like you let them get too thin. I've been reading more and more lately that most brake pads are really only designed to run to half-thickness, not down to the backing plates.

I had exactly the same thing happen with a set of DS3000s (and a year ago with a set of HT10s). Same track, same car, and same thing in common- I let them get too then.