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Is it possible to use a harness without a roll bar
I've purchased Cobra Suzuka seats and a 5 pt harness and was wondering if anyone has used a harness without a roll bar to attach it to. If you have where are the mounting points?
Most use a harness bar mounted on the B pillars. Others mount the harnesses on the rear strut bar.
__________________
MY STABLE: 1991 Red Mazda Miata | 1996 White BMW 318i | 1996 Red BMW 328i | 2003 Red Nissan Frontier | 2005 Red Nissan Titan | 2006 Silverstone Nissan 350Z | 2006 Red Porsche Cayenne S
Do a search on this board for "harness bar". That's the only legit way to mount a harness without a cage. Here's mine:
Sparco has them, among others.
You can use some huge washers and eyebolts in the floor/driveshaft tunnel.
Do a search for multiple threads on the do's and don'ts (many, many opinions).
I don't think the 350Z is made in such a way that you can mount harnesses without a harness bar. I would NOT recommend attaching it to the strut tower bar... its not made for that type of stress (if you were to get in an impact).
But dude... you're talking about putting a $1800 seat in that car. Why on earth would you want to spend that kind of money, and then compromise your safety with questionable harness mounting?
Find a seat that's half as much, then buy the bolt-in Kirk 4-point roll bar and be done with it.
[EDIT] Just re-read your post (or did you edit it) and see you've already purchased the seats. But still...
__________________ Stacy King (I'm a guy dammit!!) - Owner - Asphalt Ventures
1st thing is to check with whatever groups you'll be participating with to make sure they even allow harness/fixed seat use without a roll bar. If they do, then its up to you if you want to risk running it that way. Again, plenty of pro/con threads regarding the practice (if you can't tell, I'm one that'll tell you not to do it).
As far as attachment points, its always best to drill a hole, then use backing plates and grade 8 hardware to mount the lap and sub strap belts as per the belt manufacturer's recommendations. There's really no other safe way to do it.
__________________ Stacy King (I'm a guy dammit!!) - Owner - Asphalt Ventures
There are some other things people should consider before adding "saftey" equipment to their street driven cars. Most saftey gear is designed to work together with other saftey gear. It assumes other apparatus are in place and functioning properly.
*5-6 point dangers: incorrectly installed sub belts(no race seat) = internal injurys, head and neck injurys in rollovers without cage or roll bar, stock seats/sliders are weak, may change position or release while driving or in an incident, resulting in ejection.
*4 point dangers: all of the above + sliding into the footwell in frontal collisions
When something says it isn't for street use, it needs to be installed by an experienced professional, and even then only for track days. Race Seats/harnesses/roll cages are supposed to work together. None of them do their job right without the other two.
If you are doing the occasional auto-X, then harnesses might be ok JUST for the autoX to help hold you in. But if you are doing HDPE or open track, I strongly encourage either going all out on the race gear, or stay entirely DOT.
There are some other things people should consider before adding "saftey" equipment to their street driven cars. Most saftey gear is designed to work together with other saftey gear. It assumes other apparatus are in place and functioning properly.
*5-6 point dangers: incorrectly installed sub belts(no race seat) = internal injurys, head and neck injurys in rollovers without cage or roll bar, stock seats/sliders are weak, may change position or release while driving or in an incident, resulting in ejection.
*4 point dangers: all of the above + sliding into the footwell in frontal collisions
When something says it isn't for street use, it needs to be installed by an experienced professional, and even then only for track days. Race Seats/harnesses/roll cages are supposed to work together. None of them do their job right without the other two.
If you are doing the occasional auto-X, then harnesses might be ok JUST for the autoX to help hold you in. But if you are doing HDPE or open track, I strongly encourage either going all out on the race gear, or stay entirely DOT.
__________________ Stacy King (I'm a guy dammit!!) - Owner - Asphalt Ventures
1st thing is to check with whatever groups you'll be participating with to make sure they even allow harness/fixed seat use without a roll bar. If they do, then its up to you if you want to risk running it that way. Again, plenty of pro/con threads regarding the practice (if you can't tell, I'm one that'll tell you not to do it).
As far as attachment points, its always best to drill a hole, then use backing plates and grade 8 hardware to mount the lap and sub strap belts as per the belt manufacturer's recommendations. There's really no other safe way to do it.
Kirk ships all over the world Their roll bar is the highest value modification you can put on your Z - Do not use a harness w/o a roll bar. be sure and get it padded so you do not break your noggin in a street bump/hit
Maybe next years budget should include a proper seat and roll bar
Those heated leather seats will be missed. The whole idea of a trackable street car is looking more like a streetable track car.
Maybe next years budget should include a proper seat and roll bar
Those heated leather seats will be missed. The whole idea of a trackable street car is looking more like a streetable track car.
Building a bracket base that mounts to your stock seat holes is not that tough(have welder, will travel). Then you can run your nice seats on the street, and your race seat on the track. Spending an hour swapping in your race seat and belts the night before is well worth the time and the added safety.
I AutoX, and am not worried about crashing or rolling the car (lower speeds, flat surfaces, very few objects to hit)...so I ended up buying a 1.5" X 1.5" L Aluninum bar (1/4" thickness) and cut/drilled it so that it would mount to the rear 2 bolts on the seat frame - it's a straight shot from the 2 rear mounting holes, so no need for custom welding or anything like that. I then drilled the needed holes to mount my harness to the aluminum L. I know that angle of the shoulder straps is not correct, but that only comes into play w/ a collision. (I also do Track events...but I use the OE seat belts for that)
just thought I'd give you one more option...if you're planning to track the car or drive it on the street w/ a harness, then everyone's advice is correct.
*ppl have told me that even with AutoX I shouldn't run my set-up, but if I put a harness bar in, then they'll say that it adds structural support and it's not technically a legal modification....in the end, I'm not worried about b/c the risk of crashing during an AutoX is very very small.
*ppl have told me that even with AutoX I shouldn't run my set-up, but if I put a harness bar in, then they'll say that it adds structural support and it's not technically a legal modification....in the end, I'm not worried about b/c the risk of crashing during an AutoX is very very small.
For those weenie protesting autocrossers just make a harness bar that has one tube slide into the other with a tight fit. Make sure the overlap is about three feet. And don't discount the dangers of autocrossing, I saw someone killed in an autocross at the old Lion Country Safari parking lot in Irvine, CA. The driver lost control in a very fast DMod Lotus Elan and hit a light pole.
Wow - Lion Country Safari - I remember going there as a kid, you have sparked some old memories.
This could get into a heated arguement about what is safe and what is not - you need to make you own judgement about what you think is correct and what is not.
I decided to go with the Kirk roll bar with my Suzuka seats, and Kirk builds them correctly with the right geometry, materials, and the fabrication is excellent. They will not build a harness bar due to safety reasons (they believe that if you don't have roll over protection than you shouldn't use a harness) and they don't want you to put the full roll cage in a street driven car since you should never drive in a full roll cage without a helmet!
Here is a picture of my set up:
And Stacy - Cobra seats are not $1800 unless you buy the carbon fiber ones, they are around $500 for FIA approved seat just like the rest of them.
For those weenie protesting autocrossers just make a harness bar that has one tube slide into the other with a tight fit. Make sure the overlap is about three feet. And don't discount the dangers of autocrossing, I saw someone killed in an autocross at the old Lion Country Safari parking lot in Irvine, CA. The driver lost control in a very fast DMod Lotus Elan and hit a light pole.
point taken - I'm not trying to get into a discussion over this, just offering my own opinion and what I've done. we all have to weigh the risks we take.
Maybe next years budget should include a proper seat and roll bar
Those heated leather seats will be missed. The whole idea of a trackable street car is looking more like a streetable track car.
Welcome to my world, John.
When you get ready to do it, I can help you. I have a Kirk roll bar installed in my car. The hardest part is getting over the psychological pain of having to drill 16 holes in your car...
__________________ Special thanks to sponsors, Rotora, iNTOUCH Computer and Pitstop Performance. Former SCCA National, IMSA and FIA competition licenses, and 12 Hours of Sebring Finisher. Two time podium finisher - Redline Time Attack. Winner - 2006 Silver State Classic, 145mph Class.
When you get ready to do it, I can help you. I have a Kirk roll bar installed in my car. The hardest part is getting over the psychological pain of having to drill 16 holes in your car...
Can you go into some detail about the Kirk? I have heard that with it in, there is much less room for the seat to be placed (or adjusted)
I have been searching for a suitable cage for quite some time now, and the only place I've been lead is to have a custom one made.
Is it possible to use a harness without a roll bar
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