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Old 03-23-2011, 02:38 PM   #1
Shamu
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Default National Class Winning SP Z33/34 builds ...folly in 12?

I started to think about the likelihood of building 350Z and 370Z into class winning cars given the proposed classing in SP and started to wonder if building a National level Z33 or Z34 SP car is folly? Not that I care as I'm having a blast with the car regardless.

Z33 cars are going to new CSP next year where they will likely meet the new class standard CSP Boxsters with Boxster/Cayman S motors. 2600 lb beasts with 350 HP motors and mid engine handling. 350Z wont have a chance in the new CSP class with that car. Too bad the Z33 didnt go to old ESP with American Muscle as it would have fit much better with that crowd being lighter and a little lower on HP. Now its in with cars 300 lbs lighter that can make just as much HP or more than the Z. But truly I'd be buying a 986 Boxster and finding a used 3.4 Boxster S motor right now as next year that will be a class winning car in CSP. Pretty easy car to build too!

Z34's continue to go against Evo's in BSP which I dont see anyway of beating due to HP advantage of the Mitsu's. Similar weight but way down on HP. ANd the Evo guys have many more years of development. I think I'm the only person working on a serious BSP 370Z right now. ...and anyone who knows me ...Im not too serious.

So is there another class beyond stock that the Z33 or Z34 platforms might excel? Maybe SSM? But thats scary as I know of some very fast SSM cars being made out of Boxsters. Supercharged 3.6 lite monster.

Not sure I see a pretty picture for the Zed car for people intent on going after top spots at national level?
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:01 AM   #2
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Right now, I'm just focusing on being competitive regionally.

I just have to be able to beat a certain local C3 Corvette that often gets FTD before I could even think about Nationals, honestly.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:24 AM   #3
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IMO, the new proposed CSP can be the Z's best shot at being nationally competitive. I know this is a lot of bench racing, but the Z would get crushed in SM2 by the RX-7, and STR is a joke.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:13 AM   #4
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Well we will see in San Diego because I think we have benchmark for each car mentioned above with decent drivers in each car. Chris's 350Z and the new BSP 3.4 liter powered 986 boxster build that will be going to CSP and I will be going against the fast EVO in the 370Z which will remain in BSP.

I suspect my AX driving skills are not up to level of Chris or several of the other BSP drivers but my co-driver should extract all potential out of my car. I'm not much of a cone jockey but I'm trying to get better at this sport.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:52 AM   #5
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I think the 350Z in CSP stands a really good chance nationally. A 2003 with a HR motor built to CSP specs should be around 340 hp and 2,750 lbs. and you can run 315s in the back and 285s up front. Here in Cal Club someone has already built a Frankenboxster and we'll see how well it does. I think the competitiveness issue comes down to the driver more then the specific car in CSP.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:30 AM   #6
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There is no SM2 class FYI
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:57 AM   #7
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I think the 350Z in CSP stands a really good chance nationally. A 2003 with a HR motor built to CSP specs should be around 340 hp and 2,750 lbs. and you can run 315s in the back and 285s up front. Here in Cal Club someone has already built a Frankenboxster and we'll see how well it does. I think the competitiveness issue comes down to the driver more then the specific car in CSP.
Wow Really? You think a BSP 350Z could get to 2750 lbs? I was setting target on my 370Z BSP at 2950 lbs and thought I was being too aggressive. Maybe I need to reevaluate that weight target again? Where are you getting legal weight out?

My 370 Z motor with bolt ons is only to 310 WHP so far. Dang what are you doing to those HR motors to get that kind of power? Boxsters dont lose as much HP to rear wheels as us so they will likely still have a HP advantage. Althought they have one weakness - terrible low end. If they get slowed down too much they wont spin up as fast as us.

I know the BSP Boxster in your area very well. Builder and I shared lots of ideas for BSP car when we were building my FP Boxster. I think once the bugs are worked out of that car it will be interesting to see. Its a fast car. I think my co driver is faster than Carl. He has co driven with him and beat him in his own car but I dont think a 3150 lb 370Z will have a chance against him in that BSP boxster. He has had more time to develop his P Car than I have with the Z.

You should head out and see us run against those guys. Honestly I meant no offense in my earlier posts on the bushing stuff. I'm just frustrated with that rule as I dont have a ton of time to dick around with custom fabbed bushings. Hell I dont even have a garage! LOL! SO finding somone who can do custom fabbed bushings is tough!
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:57 AM   #8
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There is no SM2 class FYI
Thanks it was an iPad auto correct typo I meant SSM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #9
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I'm curious about weight too. If the smog machine scales at work are right my 2003 Enth weighed around 3050.
Spare tire in, 17" Rpf1s, dual exhaust, 7ish gallons, oh and no rear wiper.

I tried to find everything legal to remove/lighten:

AC
Seats
Battery
Radio
Brakes
Steering wheel
Flywheel
Headers

Anything I missed? I think the wiper would have to go back.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betamotorsports View Post
I think the 350Z in CSP stands a really good chance nationally. A 2003 with a HR motor built to CSP specs should be around 340 hp and 2,750 lbs. and you can run 315s in the back and 285s up front. Here in Cal Club someone has already built a Frankenboxster and we'll see how well it does. I think the competitiveness issue comes down to the driver more then the specific car in CSP.
This is one of the times I disagree with you. Yes, it stands a really good chance Nationally... However, no way will it drop to 2750 lbs, the HR motor is heavier then the DE motor. On top of that, you're tire configuration is whack. We all run 295's up front in stock class. And if someone wanted to be hardcore, cut the fenders and run 315's square. And yes, it always come down to driver... I should fly down and co-drive with Chris, I know I'll extract a hell of a lot from the car...
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:26 AM   #11
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Based on where my car is on weight, once I pull the AC and radio it should be mid to low 28xx. 2750 maybe, but you would have to do EVERYTHING, small brakes, base headlights, custom intake (stock is 35lb+), etc.

Definitely 315's square.....
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #12
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The general rule of thumb regarding weight reduction in SP is 10% and yes, you have to do everything to get to that number. Starting from 3050 on a base 2003 car I figured you could get it to 2750. I have no actual experience with that but a focus on ounces and grams would probably get you there.

Also, when I quote HP numbers I'm quoting engine HP on a certified dyno. I don't trust wheel horsepower numbers anymore. My old racing 3L Datsun L6 engine made 325hp on two different SAE tested and certified engine dynos - repeatedly. Running the car on various chassis dynos here on the west coast producted supposedly "corrected" horsepower numbers of: 275, 288, 294, 360, and 378 hp numbers with no change in tune or fuel.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #13
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^Nice man! I didn't know you were making fenders, that's awesome. Best in luck in the class.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:37 AM   #14
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315/335 on an SM2 350.....

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Old 03-24-2011, 11:40 AM   #15
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Thanks. I did the fenders a couple years ago, but I haven't had time to do much other than some locals and 1 tour since.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:42 AM   #16
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Is removing random redundant bolts etc legal? Most of the time it happens accident but it made me wonder.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
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This is one of the times I disagree with you. Yes, it stands a really good chance Nationally... However, no way will it drop to 2750 lbs, the HR motor is heavier then the DE motor. On top of that, you're tire configuration is whack. We all run 295's up front in stock class. And if someone wanted to be hardcore, cut the fenders and run 315's square. And yes, it always come down to driver... I should fly down and co-drive with Chris, I know I'll extract a hell of a lot from the car...
295 A6? Why? I don't believe it is any wider, just taller, than the 285.

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315/335 on an SM2 350.....
Yes, as insane as that is - it puts me to shame.

18x11 -3 front 315/30/18
18x12.5 -14 rear 335/30/18
both with rolled and pulled fenders.

That was after he upgraded from 18x9.5 with 295 front and 18x10 with 315 rears.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:56 AM   #18
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295 A6? Why? I don't believe it is any wider, just taller, than the 285.



Yes, as insane as that is - it puts me to shame.

18x11 -3 front 315/30/18
18x12.5 -14 rear 335/30/18
both with rolled and pulled fenders.

That was after he upgraded from 18x9.5 with 295 front and 18x10 with 315 rears.
It's wider, but marginally. Also gearing, I didn't need to shorten my gearing that much, I've banged the rev limiter a bunch of 285's and nearly never on the 295's.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:45 PM   #19
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Wow that 350Z is cool! I'm keeping my car stock looking so cant go that crazy . My car will have suspension fire power.

I'm running 315 rear and 285 front and the car turns like crazy. I may consider going with 295 up front with a 10 inch wheel.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:51 PM   #20
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I'm planning on going 315 square for my next set of tires.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:51 PM
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