l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

I currently run Truechoice Koni Phase IVs w/ spring rates of 500/425. They are DA w/o external reservoir.

Was thinking of upgrading to entry level race shocks, also DA, and no external reservoir to keep the same level of mod points (NASA TT).

My competition weight w/ driver is 2940lbs and I only plan on running at Homestead, Sebring, and Road Atlanta w/o any other mods other than 255R6/A6s.

From what I've researched the price range for something like Motons, Koni 2812s, JRZ RS, MCS, etc. is between $4k-6k. Konis seem to be working well for autox (ProParts).

Was hoping to get some advice regarding the benefit in lap times vs price.

What sort of improvement in lap times would be realistic when moving from a stree/track suspension to an entry level race suspension?

I've heard people at the track say "a good suspension is worth 2 seconds" and "good suspension wil give you much more confidene" etc., realistic or BS?

Would love to hear the feedback in general for those that have made the switch to shocks in this category?

Would it make more sense to get the Truechoice Konis re-valved for stiffer springs, or hell maybe even go back to stock suspension get TT mod points back and run wider Hoosiers?



Thanks!

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

My thoughts, stock suspension with the 04.5+ spring rates and wider tires or bump up your rear spring rate to 500 or slightly more and revalve the rear shock to handle it.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

Better dampers will benefit the racer who knows how to adjust them properly. That's really a minority of the overall field, but if you know that a little more high-speed bump will really help in 7/10 turns AND can take advantage of it, then yes, high cost shocks will make a difference. Shocks are like any tool- only as good as the individual wielding it IMHO.

l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

I've thought about the 04.5+ stock suspension but I'm almost certain that I'd have to take points since it is not BTM?

Revalving the Truechoice Konis would probably be my best bet. They should be able to handle spring rates of up to 1k if revalved properly.

What suspension do you run?

l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

If dampers can really make a difference then maybe it is time go ahead and get high end stuff and start learning how to make it work. I remember waiting a while before going to R-Comps but as soon as I put them on I was able to go 3-4 seconds faster. I know suspension tuning is much more complex but if I can 1-2 secs with hard work it would be worth it for me!

Thanks for the info!

BTW, was that your car at the Sebring autox. It was an STU Z that looked amazing did you take FTD? I heard the Subarus were saying how fast the car was. What suspension and wheel/tire size do you run?

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

Would have to dig in the rules on if you will take points for the updated springs.

I run Moton Clubsports with 13k front springs and 6k rear ( mounted on the shock body)

l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

dayum!

HR.R-CING

terra with that good ****

Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

In NASA TT, I was faster going back to stock suspension to free up points to run wider A6's than I was with smaller tires and coilovers. I never spent the proper time setting the shocks and all that though. Perhaps I could have gotten more out of them if I did, but like dkmura said, they're only going to work in the hands of someone that knows how to use them. I'll be honest, I don't really know that much about suspension so I sold them and went back to stock. I run stock sways, stock shocks and stock springs. I have noticed that by adding slightly stiffer springs (they also lowered the car a bit, too) the car felt better and I was a tick faster in that setup. NASA TT is getting faster and faster cars each year I feel like, too. At least at the events I've been going to.

03threefiftyz

iTrader: (25)

I would rather run the larger wheel/tire than expensive shocks....and I love me some motorsports grade shocks.

Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

Agreed! Slapping on wider stickier tires in pretty much any case is going to guarantee more lateral grip. Slapping on expensive shocks, doesn't necessarily mean the car now handles better. It's all trial and error. Make a change, if the car felt better go with it. If it didn't go the other way.

l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

Thanks to all for the advice, really good stuff!

After thinking it through a bit and taking into consideration the advice
I've gotten here and some local guys/race-shops, I'm going to keep the
current coils but have them properly setup.

I never corner balanced the car and haven't had an alignment done in years.
May also get the shocks serviced. May as well optimize what I have now and
start learning to play with the shock settings with what I've got before
spending $5k.

Based on the current points I could run A6s in 275 (+4) (instead of 255s) if I
remove points for coils (-5). But since the 255 is almost as wide as the 275
I'm not sure it is really worth it? I think for that to make sense I would need
a 11" wide wheel to really use every bit of the 275 tire. I think running TTB
where the base tire size is 265, then moving up to a 285 (+4) would make more
sense?

Also, the arrival of the R7/A7 and their 2015 TT classification, things may
change a bit, hopefully not too much. I submitted the Hoosier contingency redemption and will
be getting 2 245 R7s, should be interesting. Talked to a rep at Hoosier, said the R7
should be almost as fast as the A6 but last longer, would be great.

TT competition in Florida has gotten riduculously quick, TTC/D/E records at
Sebring have dropped by ~4secs. Pro and Semi-Pro drivers are showing up
a putting a beating on us slow guys.

Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

Just because you move to TTB doesn't mean that a 285 is +4. It is based off your base class. Since your base class is TTC a 285 is +7. This is a commonly misinterpreted part of the rules. The 255/35/18 Hoosier has to take points as if it was a 275. There is a specific note in the rules about. 11" wide tire is overkill for a 275. I have been running 18x9.5 for awhile and they fit fine.

Here is the clip from the rules on the 255 tire.

"*Exception(s) to A.8) The Hoosier 255/35-18 (A6 & R6) will be assessed points based on its actual 275mm size (and
not the 255mm listed on the sidewall)"

l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

Gothca, by move I meant re-class to TTB. The 255/35/18 Hoosier is really a 275 labeled a 255 so I think that is fair, doesn't affect me since I run 17in wheels at this point.

I currently run 255s on 17x10s and they fit great. My thinking is that the 275 would not give me any more contact patch than the 255s on 17x10s, but a 17x11 would stretch the 275 to provide more contact patch. But I haven't done any real testing or measured things.

Seems like you've tried different setups and it works to run 275s on a 9.5 wheel. I assume you tried the 255/40 vs the 275s and saw a noticeable difference with the 275? Otherwise you would be running the 255 and get points back?

Maybe I'm focusing on the Section Width too much.

Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

I have 18" wheels. They are 18x9.5. I've run the 275/35/18, 255/35/18 (which is same points as 275. Same width but smaller sidewall) and the 285/30/18 on a 10.5" wheel. I was fastest on the 255/35/18. I prefer it over the other two, but that's just my opinion. Shockingly the 285 netted me about the same lap times, but I think it was too much wheel and tire for the car.

guitman32

iTrader: (15)

Came across this and thought of this thread: http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...rack-test.html

On a g35, went from stock to KW v3s, but also added stillen arms to 2deg front camber. Got 2.5secs.

You already have a good setup, so your incremental benefit would probably be smaller. The feel is something intangible that a hardass might say wouldnt matter to a "real" driver let the times do the talking...lfmao...you were plenty fast at Sebring so that doesn't apply

Nice to meet you there btw, jeez you almost got class win...not to bring up a sore subject but remind me how close it was again?

l30thelion

iTrader: (3)

Not a sore subject at all, I'm used to getting killed by faster drivers in slower cars
during my many years of autocross.

Here are the lap times......but they don't tell the whole story.

The Miata is a TTD prepped car and better still, the Civic is a TTE car! These guys can drive.
The Civic driver has won an autox championship in SS in a GT3 a few years ago and has a NASA TTC National Championship too.
The Miata driver is just as quick and will likely win the TTD/PTD championship in Atlanta this year.

The level of competition in TT is getting crazy fast and it is great to have drivers like that locally to show the rest
of us what is really possible. Let's you know that if you are getting close to their time you are doing something
right.

The Civic driver has the TTC track record at Sebring in an S2k of 2:26.541 (ideal conditions 60 degree weather),
so that is the goal, I believe the Z can do 26s for sure, honestly I think 25s are
possible but that might be a stretch.

My reasoning is that the 29.7 can come down to ~28.2 by running A6s instead of R6s. If you take weather conditions
into consideration there is a difference of about 30 degrees between June and January here in Florida (90/60), I would
say that would yield 1.5 to 2 seconds if not more. That would put the car in the 26s w/ an average driver,
but I would say that either of those drivers could put 1-2 seconds on me any time, so a low 25 or even a 24 is possible.

But that is all conjecture! My goal is to be in the 28s in October.

guitman32

iTrader: (15)

Well you seem pretty serious, and have no doubt you'll be able to extract the potential from a more competent damper. Looks like it might have netted you the win, albeit an expensive one and as you said the competition is fierce.

I think once you start to play in rarefied air it starts to get pricey lol. But I wanna see you break the TTC record! And we were also discussing spring rate changes iirc...