Bilstein Shocks + Swift Spec-R Springs Review
08-25-2014, 07:22 PM
#81
My apologies, I thought I had made that clear.
As for adjustability, I agree it may be a negative for certain people if left out. Think of valving as a coarse adjustment and the damping **** a fine adjustment. You generally valve for a spring rate and fine tune for any variance based on the situation. However, there is only ONE damping setting for each specific spring rate. Correctly setting this is known as the system being critically damped. Cheaper coilovers or non-specifically valved shocks are given the adjustment to make up for the discrepancies and allow for a less precise valving in the shock. Bilstein made it clear to me that these shocks were "very well valved" for my selected spring rate.
They probably aren't perfect and could use a little adjusting I'm sure but as my car sits right now, it's less under/over damped than any <$2k coilover system I've ever had the displeasure of driving. It's a perfect set it and forget it system for the street and occasional track day. That was the point of this setup, not for the user that will constantly mess with every setting based on the track temp that day. If you don't know the exact damping curve of your shock for each individual setting on the adjustable ***** then you're quite possibly making the system farther from critically damped with each setting.
Buying a set of MOTON coilovers is definitely an option. They're better than this setup will ever be. They're also at least 5 times the cost. Koni shocks are twin tube, an old and outdated design. Each setup has its positives and negatives, you just have to pick what is right for you.
As for adjustability, I agree it may be a negative for certain people if left out. Think of valving as a coarse adjustment and the damping **** a fine adjustment. You generally valve for a spring rate and fine tune for any variance based on the situation. However, there is only ONE damping setting for each specific spring rate. Correctly setting this is known as the system being critically damped. Cheaper coilovers or non-specifically valved shocks are given the adjustment to make up for the discrepancies and allow for a less precise valving in the shock. Bilstein made it clear to me that these shocks were "very well valved" for my selected spring rate.
They probably aren't perfect and could use a little adjusting I'm sure but as my car sits right now, it's less under/over damped than any <$2k coilover system I've ever had the displeasure of driving. It's a perfect set it and forget it system for the street and occasional track day. That was the point of this setup, not for the user that will constantly mess with every setting based on the track temp that day. If you don't know the exact damping curve of your shock for each individual setting on the adjustable ***** then you're quite possibly making the system farther from critically damped with each setting.
Buying a set of MOTON coilovers is definitely an option. They're better than this setup will ever be. They're also at least 5 times the cost. Koni shocks are twin tube, an old and outdated design. Each setup has its positives and negatives, you just have to pick what is right for you.
Last edited by clubhopper; 08-25-2014 at 07:29 PM.
08-26-2014, 03:22 AM
#82
Wow, your car looks very nice, unfortunately that's not really what I meant. I'm hoping someone might have some pictures of the rear spring actually installed inside the rear spring bucket. Thanks though, the drop it gave your car is perfect.
08-26-2014, 07:21 AM
#84
And yeah gotta make sure it's in right... It's worth mentioning too that the "progressive" section of these springs is effectively a zero-rate section. It's used to make the spring as long as OEM but not used for any real spring force thus allowing the car to sit lower at the same length of spring so you don't have it falling out of the bucket.
08-27-2014, 02:06 PM
#85
Are these inverted too? The H&R coilovers I ran on my MR2 were inverted monotube Bilstein inserts. The shaft was actually down inside the part that bolted to the knuckle and the damper body was the portion bolted to the upper pillow mounts. This reduces unsprung mass since the heaviest part of the damper is attached to the sprung part of the car.
I tend to disagree that the non-adjustability is a negative. Bilstein makes very good dampers that tend to not really need adjustment. A friend of mine chose the non-adjustable H&R coilovers for his track MR2 they were so much better than anything else on the market at the time (after driving my car), especially for the price. Couple that with how cheap they are to revalve (I think Bilstein charges like $75 per) and they're really a steal..
I tend to disagree that the non-adjustability is a negative. Bilstein makes very good dampers that tend to not really need adjustment. A friend of mine chose the non-adjustable H&R coilovers for his track MR2 they were so much better than anything else on the market at the time (after driving my car), especially for the price. Couple that with how cheap they are to revalve (I think Bilstein charges like $75 per) and they're really a steal..
Last edited by kilogram; 08-27-2014 at 02:13 PM.
08-27-2014, 06:40 PM
#87
Are these inverted too? The H&R coilovers I ran on my MR2 were inverted monotube Bilstein inserts. The shaft was actually down inside the part that bolted to the knuckle and the damper body was the portion bolted to the upper pillow mounts. This reduces unsprung mass since the heaviest part of the damper is attached to the sprung part of the car.
I tend to disagree that the non-adjustability is a negative. Bilstein makes very good dampers that tend to not really need adjustment. A friend of mine chose the non-adjustable H&R coilovers for his track MR2 they were so much better than anything else on the market at the time (after driving my car), especially for the price. Couple that with how cheap they are to revalve (I think Bilstein charges like $75 per) and they're really a steal..
I tend to disagree that the non-adjustability is a negative. Bilstein makes very good dampers that tend to not really need adjustment. A friend of mine chose the non-adjustable H&R coilovers for his track MR2 they were so much better than anything else on the market at the time (after driving my car), especially for the price. Couple that with how cheap they are to revalve (I think Bilstein charges like $75 per) and they're really a steal..
Although I tend to agree (im running non-adjustable), I believe there is a benefit to having one more tool to fine tune the behavior of the car. This can be applicable if you visit different tracks and where the only practical means for on-the-fly tuning are damper setting and tire pressure (where you probably arent adjusting sway, ride height, spring, alignment, aero, etc).
08-28-2014, 07:05 AM
#88
editted - based on zswickliffe's correspondence with Swift - what I thought was wrong, is apparently right, according to Swift. So, here's a pic anyways -
Last edited by thekinn; 08-28-2014 at 08:26 AM. Reason: editted - based on zswickliffe's correspondence with Swift
08-28-2014, 07:39 AM
#89
I'm waiting for a call back from Swift but it shouldn't make a difference as to which way they're installed...
I think the only reason it's traditionally tight side up is to reduce unsprung mass. But the difference is negligible.
EDIT:
Alright people, leave them installed with words right-side-up. Remember how I said these springs aren't progressive? The secondary spring rate acts as a "helper"spring and is fully compressed at ride height. That means these are more of a two-rate linear spring. The first rate is completely taken up by the weight of the vehicle. The second rate is used to resist compression.
The point of this is to make the spring the same length as the OEM spring but allow the car to sit lower. The reason they put the "helper" portion of this spring on the bottom is because they usually install their helper springs for coilover systems on the bottom and it has been carried over.
I think the only reason it's traditionally tight side up is to reduce unsprung mass. But the difference is negligible.
EDIT:
Alright people, leave them installed with words right-side-up. Remember how I said these springs aren't progressive? The secondary spring rate acts as a "helper"spring and is fully compressed at ride height. That means these are more of a two-rate linear spring. The first rate is completely taken up by the weight of the vehicle. The second rate is used to resist compression.
The point of this is to make the spring the same length as the OEM spring but allow the car to sit lower. The reason they put the "helper" portion of this spring on the bottom is because they usually install their helper springs for coilover systems on the bottom and it has been carried over.
Last edited by zswickliffe; 08-28-2014 at 07:59 AM.
08-28-2014, 11:07 AM
#90
In my install it mattered with respect to the orientation.
I installed them with the words right side up in the rear and they creaked and groaned going up my steep driveway. It was fine driving on city streets no problem. It only made noise when going up steep inclines on an angle.
I flipped them around and the creaking and groaning went away going up those same inclines.
The progressive coils are at the top for the fronts.. But in the front the words are right side up but in the back the words were right side down.
The bottom boot in the rear is molded and contoured for a spring with wide spacing. The boot at the top is relatively flat. I suspect there was some binding and lift occurring going up steep inclines on an angle.
Performance wise after having my springs installed both ways in the rear it does not matter. I don't think I ever would have noticed if my commutes didn't have big inclines.
Edit: I have stiffer than stock swaybars as well.
Fyi I only thought to flip it around after I saw swifts installed on a 370z. It's progressive coils were at the top but the swift logo was right side up.
I installed them with the words right side up in the rear and they creaked and groaned going up my steep driveway. It was fine driving on city streets no problem. It only made noise when going up steep inclines on an angle.
I flipped them around and the creaking and groaning went away going up those same inclines.
The progressive coils are at the top for the fronts.. But in the front the words are right side up but in the back the words were right side down.
The bottom boot in the rear is molded and contoured for a spring with wide spacing. The boot at the top is relatively flat. I suspect there was some binding and lift occurring going up steep inclines on an angle.
Performance wise after having my springs installed both ways in the rear it does not matter. I don't think I ever would have noticed if my commutes didn't have big inclines.
Edit: I have stiffer than stock swaybars as well.
Fyi I only thought to flip it around after I saw swifts installed on a 370z. It's progressive coils were at the top but the swift logo was right side up.
Last edited by clubhopper; 08-28-2014 at 11:28 AM.
08-28-2014, 11:29 AM
#91
In my install it mattered with respect to the orientation.
I installed them with the words right side up in the rear and they creaked and groaned going up my steep driveway. It was fine driving on city streets no problem. It only made noise when going up steep inclines on an angle.
I flipped them around and the creaking and groaning went away going up those same inclines.
The progressive coils are at the top for the fronts.. But in the front the words are right side up but in the back the words were right side down.
The bottom boot in the rear is molded and contoured for a spring with wide spacing. The boot at the top is relatively flat. I suspect there was some binding and lift occurring going up steep inclines on an angle.
Performance wise after having my springs installed both ways in the rear it does not matter. I don't think I ever would have noticed if my commutes didn't have big inclines.
Edit: I have stiffer than stock swaybars as well.
I installed them with the words right side up in the rear and they creaked and groaned going up my steep driveway. It was fine driving on city streets no problem. It only made noise when going up steep inclines on an angle.
I flipped them around and the creaking and groaning went away going up those same inclines.
The progressive coils are at the top for the fronts.. But in the front the words are right side up but in the back the words were right side down.
The bottom boot in the rear is molded and contoured for a spring with wide spacing. The boot at the top is relatively flat. I suspect there was some binding and lift occurring going up steep inclines on an angle.
Performance wise after having my springs installed both ways in the rear it does not matter. I don't think I ever would have noticed if my commutes didn't have big inclines.
Edit: I have stiffer than stock swaybars as well.
The groaning and binding occurred on my setup as well but as the springs found their seat and settled down over a few thousand miles, they quieted down and don't make a noise.
I have aftermarket sways as well. If you want to flip them that's fine, but I have to make it known that Swift does NOT recommend it. There may be differences in the ID of the coil at each end causing it to sit differently than designed.
08-31-2014, 11:46 AM
#97
Update on my car feeling unsettled at a few spots on track - higher speed kinks especially.
My rear Cobb sway bar was already on full soft so I switched back to OEM sway bar in the rrear with the front Cobb sway bar staying on 3rd of 4 stiffest setting (remained unchanged before and after testing..)
Result = Car felt excellent. I'm back to 'normal' which is settled and able to get on throttle sooner with some understeer where I expected it. Very happy with the results..
Thanks for the suggestion Zswickliffe.
My rear Cobb sway bar was already on full soft so I switched back to OEM sway bar in the rrear with the front Cobb sway bar staying on 3rd of 4 stiffest setting (remained unchanged before and after testing..)
Result = Car felt excellent. I'm back to 'normal' which is settled and able to get on throttle sooner with some understeer where I expected it. Very happy with the results..
Thanks for the suggestion Zswickliffe.
08-31-2014, 12:28 PM
#98
Update on my car feeling unsettled at a few spots on track - higher speed kinks especially.
My rear Cobb sway bar was already on full soft so I switched back to OEM sway bar in the rrear with the front Cobb sway bar staying on 3rd of 4 stiffest setting (remained unchanged before and after testing..)
Result = Car felt excellent. I'm back to 'normal' which is settled and able to get on throttle sooner with some understeer where I expected it. Very happy with the results..
Thanks for the suggestion Zswickliffe.
My rear Cobb sway bar was already on full soft so I switched back to OEM sway bar in the rrear with the front Cobb sway bar staying on 3rd of 4 stiffest setting (remained unchanged before and after testing..)
Result = Car felt excellent. I'm back to 'normal' which is settled and able to get on throttle sooner with some understeer where I expected it. Very happy with the results..
Thanks for the suggestion Zswickliffe.
08-31-2014, 11:35 PM
#99
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glad to see to enthusiasm on this awesome tread !!! ok so i have decided on the pro-kit/re-valved bilstein + rpf1 18x9.5 +15 silver and 255/40/18 and 255/45/18 .... and the reason why i want the 255 in rear is to be able to rotate the car easier with throttle and i think 275 is a lot of meat for my open diff ...... so far i have not seen anybody run 255/45 on rears 
09-01-2014, 12:01 AM
#100
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hey !! this is a tread about swift springs and bilstein combo......here is a link of the b12 prokit "kit" that is kinda similar but i believe they might be progressive but the shock are re-valved they said ...... and please don't do the sportlines the diffence rates between the spring it self are horrible and the drop is way!!!!! too much http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...5&autoModClar=