Natural Toe-in
11-18-2014, 07:43 AM
#1
Natural Toe-in
I've been reading that rear-wheel drive cars have a small amount of natural toe-in when the car is not moving. Not sure if that is able to be visibly noticed. When RWD cars are at speed or under load, due to the physics of how the weight distributes push vs pull, the Toe will actually align itself to match the front wheels. Not sure how true that is.
Anyway - I know the feathering thing is known and beaten to death. I just got 2 new rear tires put on and an alignment done. They said alignment is where it should be. They put the lazer measuring things on the wheels, but I didn't see them make any physical adjustments. I asked to get the wheels aligned because I noticed the rear tires were wearing fast. Fronts are perfect.
I could literally stand adjacent to one of the rear wheels and look down and to me, it looks like the front of the wheel is tucked in. Not a ton, but enough for me to notice. Unless the curve of the body of the car is playing tricks on my view, it really looks like its tucked in.
Camber I know these cars as well as a lot of cars, normally have. But I'm concerned about the toe.
So my question is, do you guys notice the wheels toe point slightly inward? Is this normal? Is the RWD natural toe-in thing a real thing or should I force the alignment further than spec calls for?
I have a 2005 anniversary, stock suspension, stock 18" wheels.
Oh and also, i read that some people put on larger(wider) wheels and that corrected their feathering/alignment? I have 20MM spacers sitting in my garage, should I put them on?
Anyway - I know the feathering thing is known and beaten to death. I just got 2 new rear tires put on and an alignment done. They said alignment is where it should be. They put the lazer measuring things on the wheels, but I didn't see them make any physical adjustments. I asked to get the wheels aligned because I noticed the rear tires were wearing fast. Fronts are perfect.
I could literally stand adjacent to one of the rear wheels and look down and to me, it looks like the front of the wheel is tucked in. Not a ton, but enough for me to notice. Unless the curve of the body of the car is playing tricks on my view, it really looks like its tucked in.
Camber I know these cars as well as a lot of cars, normally have. But I'm concerned about the toe.
So my question is, do you guys notice the wheels toe point slightly inward? Is this normal? Is the RWD natural toe-in thing a real thing or should I force the alignment further than spec calls for?
I have a 2005 anniversary, stock suspension, stock 18" wheels.
Oh and also, i read that some people put on larger(wider) wheels and that corrected their feathering/alignment? I have 20MM spacers sitting in my garage, should I put them on?
Last edited by JERZ350; 11-18-2014 at 07:45 AM.
11-18-2014, 09:51 AM
#2
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The body is playing tricks on your eyes. If you really want to know, get a pair of straight edges and put the against your wheels and measure.
Install spacers before alignment for best results.
Install spacers before alignment for best results.
11-20-2014, 03:11 PM
#3
The opposite, rear toes in more under compression. There was a thread a while ago where people were reading the chart wrong. Also the feathering issue (the one that has an TSB) on the Z was for the front not rear...and was corrected with a simple alignment.
Describe specifically how your rear tires are wearing?
Did you get a before/after alignment printout?
They may not have touched anything because it was already in spec...if that was the case they should have told you. You didn't see them take out wrenches underneath the car?
Just forget about how it looks completely if they used a laser align machine. You should always tell them before they start that you want a printout, and communicate the tolerance you expect to desired specs side to side. The better shops will gladly accommodate a tight alignment, within reason.
Describe specifically how your rear tires are wearing?
Did you get a before/after alignment printout?
They may not have touched anything because it was already in spec...if that was the case they should have told you. You didn't see them take out wrenches underneath the car?
Just forget about how it looks completely if they used a laser align machine. You should always tell them before they start that you want a printout, and communicate the tolerance you expect to desired specs side to side. The better shops will gladly accommodate a tight alignment, within reason.
11-23-2014, 09:29 AM
#5
The opposite, rear toes in more under compression. There was a thread a while ago where people were reading the chart wrong. Also the feathering issue (the one that has an TSB) on the Z was for the front not rear...and was corrected with a simple alignment.
Describe specifically how your rear tires are wearing?
Did you get a before/after alignment printout?
They may not have touched anything because it was already in spec...if that was the case they should have told you. You didn't see them take out wrenches underneath the car?
Just forget about how it looks completely if they used a laser align machine. You should always tell them before they start that you want a printout, and communicate the tolerance you expect to desired specs side to side. The better shops will gladly accommodate a tight alignment, within reason.
Describe specifically how your rear tires are wearing?
Did you get a before/after alignment printout?
They may not have touched anything because it was already in spec...if that was the case they should have told you. You didn't see them take out wrenches underneath the car?
Just forget about how it looks completely if they used a laser align machine. You should always tell them before they start that you want a printout, and communicate the tolerance you expect to desired specs side to side. The better shops will gladly accommodate a tight alignment, within reason.
Finally when I brought the car in for new tires/alignment, the tires were pretty much completely bald on the entire inner half of the tire. The outer half had some tread.
I don't think i put a ton of miles on them, maybe 10-15K? Somewhere in there I think. But i don't drive it very far (1 mile to work) - So i actually had the tires a while.
The car drives great, no shakes, rattles or noises. Car doesn't drift at all when I let go of the wheel.
I did not notice them go under the car at all with any wrenches, thats why i assumed they didnt make any changes at all and that it was already in spec. If the bushings are bad, maybe the rear tires toe-in too much while under load/driving? But when the car is stopped the toe-in falls back into spec? Can I visually see myself if the bushings are bad?
Thanks
11-23-2014, 12:48 PM
#6
To put things into perspective, I have never gotten more than 10-15k on a set of rears on the Z. And I don't drive like a hooligan all the time or anything (not my daily anymore).
My wear has always been pretty even, sounds more like camber wear to me actually. Go back to the shop and ask them whats up.
My wear has always been pretty even, sounds more like camber wear to me actually. Go back to the shop and ask them whats up.
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