RobPhoboS

Quite interesting, and a good channel:

WiredOut

Thanks Mic and Rob. I emailed Bilstein and got this reply:

"In answer to your question, B12 kits comes with 4pcs of B8 shocks and 4pcs of lowering springs.
B6 shocks are normally used for standard height springs. For your info."

I'm starting to think the B12 kit varies by region. Mic confirmed the B6 shocks came with his kit by comparing part numbers. I specifically asked about the B12 pro-kit in my inquiry, though Bilstein's response just references "B12 kits". I replied back letting them know I'm from the US. I'll update with their response.

MicVelo

WTF. I think I got ripped off then.

This is going to be interesting. Empirical data versus Marketing folks. Hmmmm.

And yes, I've been a sales guy all my life and no, sales and marketing folks don't get along. "But I already closed the deal!! Well yeah, I told them that the software WILL INDEED cook them bacon and eggs in the morning, why?" Hahahahahaha.

Please keep us posted. I'm dang curious now.

RobPhoboS

The thing is, technically B6 or B8 works with the springs they include, so ultimately it doesn't matter unless you are changing the springs at a later date for lower or not as low.

WiredOut

That's my take on the kit also. Whatever shocks it comes with, Bilstein did the R&d to pair things up correctly. I was mainly curious because I was considering trying some Swift springs which seem to give a slightly lower drop. Buying a B12 kit and Swift springs comes out cheaper than buying B8's plus the springs separately. Figured I could also sell the Eibach springs that come with the kit to further lessen the damage to my wallet. Which brings me to another question. Why the heck do B8's cost so much more than B6's? If anything, you're getting a little less materials. Just heard back from Bilstein again. Here you go:

"In normal cases, B12 kits comes only with the B8 and lowering springs.
B6 are meant for standard height cars…….meaning cars running on standard issued springs."

Not sure how I feel about the "In normal cases..." part, ha, but that seems to be their final answer. If I do decide to go with the kit, I'll report back with what I receive. I suspect it will be the B6's like what Mic has.

Spike100

Swift springs provide an almost perfect drop that may not require rolling the rear fenders or purchasing additional suspension components (I’m not sure about this since I don’t have first-hand experience, but I do believe this is the case).

I went with Tein S-Tech springs, assuring a guaranteed fitment.

CJs_Z33

I have H&R coilovers. I hate the design of the rear adjustable collar. It is inverted. Meaning the collar is mounted to the spring bucket (bottom of spring). Not like the usual collar mounted on the spring perch (top of spring). I posted on another thread about this noise (scrape or squeak) ive been getting due to the metal to metal contact from said collar and the spring bucket. I was thinking i should just get rid of the set up and go with a shock and spring combo. But here's the thing. Ive done some research and it looks like Bilstein is some how incorporated with the design and construction of H&R shocks. So... I was thinking maybe ill just keep the H&R shocks and pick up a set of springs for the rear to get rid of the spring and collar. Have you guys heard of Bilstein and H&R working together? I know both companies are from germany.

kilogram

iTrader: (1)

My B12 pro kit came with B8 shocks, according to MicVelo's part numbers:
Fronts:


Rears:

MicVelo

Wellllll, now I'm really ticked off that I only got B6.

Heh heh, not really since I don't even have the 'Steins on my car any more.

But I'm really ticked off cuz of another car-part-that-requires-another-SPECIAL-part-to-make-it-work. As told in the "what have you done for your car today" thread. Sigh....

RedlineHR

iTrader: (1)

Holy dead-threads, batman! I hope this is on-topic.


I've owned a 2007 350z GT since new. I've done some mild tuning to the HR and it's now putting down 301 WHP on an SAE corrected Dynojet (Z-car Garage).


I've had the brake fluid swapped out with Motul 600 and added stoptech 309 street/track pads.


I've upgraded the wheels to Volk LE-37's 19x9.5, 19x10.5, +22 all around and have Michelin Pilot Supersports in 305/30 rear and 275/35 front.


BUT... the weak link in all of this is stock suspension with 67k (somewhat hard) miles on it. It was great as a DD commuter but now it's just super-busy and bouncy over rough pavement and it does straight as an arrow (Thanks to ZCG alignment), but heading up highway 9 or 84 is just not as fun as it should be. And acceleration suffers from squat which gives me too much negative camber and I lose rear traction easily in a straight line. The one track day at Laguna seca was great. The few auto-crosses were horrible on that combo. So much body movement on top of that sticky rubber - roll, pitch, squat, dive - exhausting :-(


There are tons of suspension choices out there and they would all be better handling that worn-out OEM, but i'm afraid to pull the trigger without knowing what they will feel like and how low they will make the car. I really don't want to scrape over speedbumps and parking lot entraces/exits


So.....


Anyone in the CA SF bay area want to take me for a ride in their car? I just don't want the firmer ride to make me regret any decision. I drove a z34 Nismo for a few days and that thing wanted to shake my kidneys out. Although it was brilliant on the twisties.


2017 is my year for new suspension. I'd love to get a feel for Koni/Eibach pro, Bilstein/Eibach pro, OEM Nismo z33, etc.


Thanks in Advance!

Spike100

First off, I compliment you on your wheel and tire upgrade. That great combo deserves a better suspension. At the 67k you report for your car, the OEM springs and shocks have more life. But, the OEM setup is obviously being overpowered by your better tire/wheel setup.

I would go Hotchkis or Swift springs, and Bilstein shocks. The Tein S-Tech springs I installed are comfortable but are a little “bouncy.” I love the Bilstein shocks.

MicVelo

Wellllll..... I've had had all four suspensions you referenced.

Koni and Bilstein/Eibach on my '03, OEM on both my Nismos (Z33 and Z34).

I'll say this right off, if the Z34 Niz was "kidney rattling" to you, afraid that the only suggestion I can honestly make is trying to find a Nismo Z33 OEM suspension. It's not anywhere near as stiff as either my Koni or Bilstein setup. (I actually found my Z34N very comfortable.)

But like everything handling, it's always going to be a tradeoff. In this case, finding a good Z33 Nismo setup that wasn't abused is going to be hard since it's not readily available other than through the classifieds.

That said, the best you're going to do without buying used is the Bilstein B12 ProKit (Bilstein B8 shocks/Eibach ProKit springs). Good ride without punishing the back and it just plain works. Combine that with a set of adjustable bars (Hotchkis, Eibach...) and you'll likely be very happy.

Be happy to give you a ride in my Koni/Eibach/Hotchkis-equipped '03 (only newer gen Z still owned) and since it sounds like you're here in the South Bay, we could do this just about any time. Let me know, I work from home in San Jose and in Mountain View a few days a week. (Or meet up at the 9/35 junction parking lot.)

2slo2go

Ok, just bought a 2008 Touring Z. It looks like the Bilstein B12 kit for my car comes with the B6 shocks vs the B8 shocks. If this is the case, how much will the car be lowered?

MicVelo

Roughly -15 to -19mm

Not gonna get into the whole "Well, B12 Prokit comes with Bx shocks" thing. Mine was B6, others following was B8. I'll leave it at that.

RobPhoboS

Well, I thought I'd revisit this thread as I've just ordered COILOVERS !!!
Hah, when I first put the yellow billies on the car I pretty much had rubber bushings on the rear and a couple of poly ones on the front.
However now, most of the bushings are SPL and the ride at low speed is far too harsh and crashy now sadly, so I wanted something else that I could get a bit of adjustment with.
Once you've gotten a bit of speed, 45mph + the ride is composed and sure footed, pretty supple and not harsh. So I'd still recommend these over the OEM shocks, just don't pair them with SPL bushings if you have poor road conditions.

I'll probably make another thread for the coilovers once they arrive and I've fitted them

MicVelo

Rob, the cart goes BEHIND the horse!!!

Not to give you too bad of a rashing but to clarify, you swapped Bilsteins out because the bushing sets were giving you a sore back? Ummmm.... which coilovers did you opt for and what type of "adjustment" are you hoping for?

Hopefully not damping to try and fix the jarring ride from the bushings because that's just not going to happen. The bushings are transferring NVH directly to the chassis, undamped via the tires/wheels and their movement over the road. No amount of shock damping is going to help AT ALL. Different sources.... or I should say, different pathway for the NVH to get into the driver's compartment.

Good luck on this and let us know. I'd like to be proved wrong here as I've never known any coilovers to have enough damping adjustment DOWNWARDS/towards soft to be a better choice than B8/B6 Bilsteins for controlling spring motion on the street.

RobPhoboS

Not a bad back, I didn't say that at all

I hope to prove you wrong, not because I'm spiteful of course but because I hope I've done my research, and if not I have a good communication line with them
I'm not fully expecting a miracle due to how bushings work - but I'm hoping for some positive changes in the right areas.

If you take a moment to look at the video channel I posted above, spend some time in there and get a feel for what he's talking about on various suspension, it's certainly refreshing and interesting. (there are a LOT)
If you are already a suspension guru apologies if it's patronising but I genuinely would hope we're all humble enough to learn something new, from him or whomever.

I'll report back to see how it goes but I wanted adjustment for track work too, not just getting from A-B without wincing.

The Swede

Just out of curiosity, what coilovers did you go for?

MicVelo

And nothing spiteful taken at all and hoping for the best for your ride, Rob. I will watch that vid but coming from a race car with full delrin and otherwise high durometer/solid bearings, the amount of nasty coming through into the car through them can be pretty astounding. Swore off high duro bearings for street cars 30+ years ago. I even prefer rubber sway bar bushings!

RobPhoboS

I have all the tools and whatnot IF I need to return any back to rubber bushings at least
Just to note, I'm not scared to backpedal and admit I made a mistake if that happens
I'm always happy to give my ego a good kick in the nuts.


Even if you just check this for a few moments there's some insight - go to 1m23s: