travlee

iTrader: (8)

you wont regret the d-specs. i had them paired with the prokit and loved em. i had the shocks pretty stiff, but the car handled great

MicVelo

Personally never used the D-Spec but from everyone (that I trust, ahem, incl. whoever posted the above included ) who have, good call.

But that price on Bilstein..... I'd snap those up in a heartbeat if I were shopping.

Given price constraint, I'd go Tokico Blues. I have no CURRENT experience with the other brand you're considering and have heard they're OK as standard replacement shocks but given what I went through with them years ago, yeah, kinda biased against.

Mic

Spike100

My advice is limited; I only have experience with Nissan OEM and Bilstein.

I can tell you that my Bilstein setup is absolutely great. I love the improved handling over the Stock setup.

openupitsdave

Thanks gang.

Ive been looking at a ton of different forums trying to figure out which is better: Tokico HP or KYB ExcelG, but everyone seems to be giving mixed reviews!

Some are saying KYB are stiffer, and other are saying Tokico are stiffer. Ugh.

Some are saying KYB is bad for lowering springs but one guy that "has been working on these cars since 1990" said that the myth is complete BS. It my understanding that both these OE replacement shocks are going to wear out quicker with Pro-Kit springs, Im just trying to figure out which will take the 1inch drop better..

I also feel like people might favor the Tokico over the KYB because its price which makes it hard to get a real unbiased comparison. I myself am leaning towards buying the Tokicos for the same reason..

Both shocks seem to make for horror stories but also seem to perform alot better than expected for other people..

Does anyone here have experience with both shocks and can give a comparison?

MicVelo

OK yes. Didn't want to name names but here goes...

Disclaimer: A somewhat apples vs oranges comparo but it's how I came to my own conclusions on Tokico vs KYB.

Tokico is the OEM mfgr of Nissan Z33 shocks.... all of them, including the Yamaha-designed wunderkind units on the Nismo model. (Thanks Dean. ) There's that bit of credibility that I advise you take with salt.

However, I have used Tokico Blues in other applications (two of my S30s and my Z32, more recently). They are fine units that I never broke. Cars were either sold or destroyed (not my fault ) before the shocks died or were sold.... maybe 125k combined miles.

Other thing to consider: Tokico HP are NOT "OEM Replacement" grade; they are high performance shocks - designed specifically for the Z33 from the start as such.

The Z-specific HP Blues Tokico offered have tuned bounce n' jounce (or compression and rebound for those unfam. with that terminology) for the Z33. And no, they didn't do too good a job on the '03-04 models but, fixed them at the behest of Nissan for the '04.5-up models. Both ride and performance allegedly improved.

And this was definitely my experience with them.

KYB GR-2 are allegedly OEM replacement grade units with some leaning towards performance. That's all I really know about them. So how can I be an "impartial" judge? Well, let's go back some 35 years....

KYB offered a shock for my 280Z called Gas-A-Just (of which I've been led to believe were the progenitor of the present day GR-2 (AKA "Excel G"). Because they were gas charged (when all others were twin tube non-gas hydraulics), they were marketed as competitors to Bilstein! (And to some degree the low pressure Konis of the day, which were also new then).

I bought in being a college kid/part time jobber at the time. (Prior to my leaving college to work for Nissan/Datsun).

Sadly.

After the trauma of doing struts for the first time and about 8-12 man hours of work (I did say "first time", right? ), I got the KYBs on the car. Immediately disappointed with the overzealously stiff ride and buckboard behavior the car displayed. However, I blamed it on Interpart Mulholland springs I installed with them. (Why I didn't just get the matching Mulholland shocks at that time - made by Tokico - is still a mystery to me.... Laff!)

As time went on, the car NEVER settled in. As a matter of fact, the ride progressively got worse....and that was in less than 10k miles.

Finally, decided to change the shocks and tore it all down only to find that THREE of the four were LEAKING inside the struts. The oil had seeped out THROUGH THE SHOCK BODY WELDS! Not at the piston seal, the welds had come undone!!

I could go on and on but I don't want to raise my blood pressure too much so I'll cut to the chase: Replaced them with my first set of Tokico Blues (yes, they were blue even then) and all was right with the world again. Car felt nimble and composed. Ride, while somewhat stiff due to the springs, was vastly improved and I had NO problems with them until I sold that first set in favor of Koni's (which I obtained through the Datsun Comp program....for whom I worked.)

Since then - and particularly while planning out my Z33-Oh-Three's (my silver car) suspension, I did a lot of research on my shocks in consideration. One thing stuck with me in all of that..... Tok Blues have maintained their high reputation as the mid-market leader as well as Bilstein and Koni have at the upper levels of traditional (non-coilover) shocks.

KYB on the other hand have NONE of their original line of shocks (Gas-A-Just, Premium Silvers - can't remember name exactly, etc) still in production. They've revised their product line many times over the years and even now, I can't tell you if there's a difference in them from the early days other than nomenclature. Even the forum discussions on them seem to bear out what I said about the overly stiff ride with little concern for valving other than to make them so compression wise stiff that people may think they're on a performance shock.

So there you have it....my obviously BIASED opinion but based in experience with them.

Like everything else, it's MY 2-centavos and YMMV.

Whatever you decide, report back please and feed the data bank.

Cheers,

Mic

travlee

iTrader: (8)

tldr: driving school

MicVelo

Hahahahahaha..... that Trav. What a cut up.

Now go to your corner.

Well, I warned everyone that I'd been refraining from naming names. But since OP asked, well, the whole story hadda be told. I mean, I have few prejudices in life but that's one of 'em.


Obviously.

openupitsdave

Thanks Mic, you sold me on Tokico..Now im having second thoughts about the Eibach ProKits... If ride height werent a factor would anyone recommend Hotchkis over Eibach for the Tokico Blues?

MicVelo

FWIW, I have Pro Kit and they're fine. As I tell anyone who wants an opinion (Trav? Trav?), springs aren't rocket science. If it can be determined what spring rate is needed to work for whatever you want to do with the car and with whatever equipment you're setting it up to do it with, anybody can make springs. Not trivializing any mfgr's R&D, just saying that of all the suspension tweaks, springs are the most brainless (to manufacture, NOT select).

I'm sure there are or will be people singing the praises of Hotchkis (and Tein and Tanabe and Stillen, etc) and with rationale behind it. I'm a happy Eibach user/fan from long ago....that was 80% of my choice. Hotchkis, as a whole, is probably one of the most recognized names in the suspension biz....they build good stuff. (Have their bars, no complaints....)

As it is, I feel you'll be fine with any of those springs coupled with the Blues.

PS As an aside, I love your user name.... wonder how many people here get it? LMAO.... "Dave's not here."

travlee

iTrader: (8)

i have had eibach springs on several cars.... no complaints

rich2342

iTrader: (3)

This is the description for the Tokico Blue's. It says the rebound damping has been increased 25%. Does this mean they are an improved version of themselves or vs. stock? Either way, It would seem an upgrade over OEM/Springs alone. I cannot speak from experience. I wonder if they have improved, does anyone know? I am considering these as a replacement to BC coils along with an undecided spring.

"Tokico designed the 350Z version of their ultra-popular HP line to be the perfect Street Performance Struts, ESPECIALLY for lowered 350Z's.. Tokico increased the rebound damping by 25% to firmly control lateral body movement. However, since the 350Z struts are already quite firm from the factory, they only slightly increased the compression damping, in order to keep the firm performance ride quality & feel, without the bone-jarring effects of over-stiff compression damping. We think you'll love the results!"

MicVelo

Versus OEM.

rich2342

iTrader: (3)

So, how does rebounding rate compare to BC coilovers? If you are familiar?. All that I know is they are 10k 8k.

MicVelo

Not familiar with these units specifically; and here's why... apple to oranges compare. First, what you quoted are spring rates, not compression/jounce & rebound damping of the shocks. Again, two different things.

Secondly, talking about just the shock component of the C/Os, BC coilovers (and most more-than-just-ride-height adjustable coilovers) give you the ability to adjust rebound (and compression; but whether or not they're separate adjustments or a "one-****-jounce-rebound", e.g. Koni Sport shocks, adjust is unknown to me.)

The best way to work with the coilovers, if you insist on having them versus a conventional shock/spring set up is to install them as-is, meaning, do NOT mess with the spring pre-load (initially). Set your ride height to your desired height. Set (or keep) the damping with factory settings - typically "0", then drive. Then drive some more until you're SURE you want to change the factory settings.

Only after you established a baseline* should you adjust for what you want to do and your type of driving should you decide to deviate.

Once you know that, you can move on to corner balancing and jounce/rebound adjustment to better suit your driving.

*Note: in probably 90% of the posts where I make recommendations for "modifications" or "adjustments", you will find the word "BASELINE". This is something SO OFTEN forgotten or neglected when tuning anything... suspension, engines, LSDs & gear sets, etc. How does one adjust if they have nothing to compare to, performance wise??

Cheers,

Mic

rich2342

iTrader: (3)

Well, My baseline is the BC coils, but I am having a suspension issue where the car isn't tracking straight. They have been on the car for 3-4 years and its driven only in summer. I bought second hand and not sure if they are part of the issue, so I am looking into a reliable/affordable shock/spring combo as well as probably front camber arms and probably bushings which I didn't do when it was corner balanced and aligned during initial install.

MicVelo

Tracking issues could be just about anything. A few things to think about before throwing parts at the problem.... Assuming your alignment settings (particularly toe and caster) are within spec, check the following:

Tires - seems obvious perhaps; but one can be surprised. Try switching the fronts SIDE-to-SIDE and see if that doesn't change anything.

Look for issues with the various steering components - ball joints for binding, transverse link and most importantly, the compression rod or more specifically, the bushings on same.

Good luck and let us know how you resolved it!

rich2342

iTrader: (3)

^Did not see this last post. Bushing have been checked visually and with pry bar, but i don't know if I am sold on this.

The alignment I don't think is very out of whack at all, as it fell within variance.

Tires are brand new Dunlop star specs. I previously had mismatched brands due to blowout. Improvement was noted on change over, however the slight highway wriggle on mild input remained ever so slightly.