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Invoice that edmunds shows is $26,665 with freight.
But remember there that the dealer gets 3% of invoice as holdback. Don't let them BS you.
I wanted it for $26,750 (out the door) but they wanted at least $27,250. I am dealing with the "internet manager" not a typical sales person...
I came up to $27,000 (out the door) and they would not come down... So I told them to forget it completely. Couple of days later the manager called me and said "come in let's talk about it, we hate to lose a sale over $250 bucks"
So I am going to stop in this weekend, test drive the car and still hold at $27,000 (out the door).
Remember this is a "ordered" car, not one in stock... They get the entire holdback of 3%. At $27,000 they would make $1,500 on the deal.
Here is how I set this "thing" up...
1) First I figured out the model, color, options I wanted. Then came up with a "fair" price.
2) Went to the Nissan site and emailed all stores within 100 miles of my area with the potential sale. "I want X car / color / options for X price (out the door). If you are interested in filling with order please contact me at ..."
Be willing to play hard ball with these guys and walk away... There are lots of dealers in my area, which always helps. Work them all at the same time and walk away (over the phone) most will call you back, and if not then the hell with them... Someone will be willing to deal!
I even had one idiot contact me after sending my request. He stated "No problem, we will sell the car to you $500 over invoice" I said "Ok, then what is that number?"
He rambled for a few mintues, I had to ask a couple of times "What's the number??"
He finally came back with $28,750 or something near that. I said "My offer was $26,750". He said "That is under our invoice"... Which I replied, "I have another dealer willing to go to $27,000 even". Then he stated, "I don't know who is selling for that price, but they can't stay in business selling it at a loss"
I paused for a second and said, "He is stilling making $1,500, at that price... How is that a loss?"
So much for his selling it to me at $500 over invoice... Stupid ass sellsmen...
Morale of this story is guys stop thinking "invoice" price when talking numbers... Starting talking "cost", because the invoices don't show you what their "cost" is... In fact, the invoice are starting to get "bloated" and not reflecting with edmunds and other places are showing as "invoice" price anymore...
Use the correct terms when dealing with these snakes, "cost"; so they can't feed you that line of ******** about losing money over the deal.
Also deal with the internet manager or the floor manager directly, because when the "sales" guys are cut out of the deal the dealership makes the $$$ it needs to cover costs and make a decent profit. The sales people are just worthless anyways...
And if they are invoved in the transaction, then you can bet they are getting some kind of "cut" on the deal... Meaning it's coming out of your pocket! Because the "floor manager" will want to make X dollar at a minimum and could give a **** less about the sales people.
Neo amazing post, really put some insight into the whole idea of Invoice buying.. and i agree, you have to bypass the middle man, who in this case are the sleezy floor salesman...
One question for all those Enthusiasts out there, or any Z owners in general.. Has anyone in the process of buying their Z, priced out a Manual vs and Auto. Im in the same "Haggling" stage, and i have one dealer saying there isn't going to be a diffrence in price if i want an Auto or Manual, but according Nissan.com its going to be 1k more. I was wonder what the real world experiances are, did you have to pay more for an auto?
Id get a stick, but i just learned last night to drive stick, on my buddies 03 GTI that is staged 2.. was interesting, but hardest part was getting it rolling. Id love to drive a stick Z, i think because its a real sprots car it deserves to be driven like that, but ive always had Autos and im if its the same price as a manual, im leaning toward auto, just out of convience, and fear of destroying the car, in the process of me learning stick
What kind of advice can you give me for barginning for a convertible. If current rumors are correct, 34-37K is out of my price range, but could do 30-32K. What do you think I do could for an order car to get them down to a decent price without any type of invoice or MSRP???
My post assumes the law of "supply and demand" are in your favor. Which IMHO the 2003 350Z stock currently is... Does not have to be "in-stock", but the frenzy over the initial release has to cool down.
The convertible is an entirely different matter. Since it would be a "new" release then the initial demand (pre-sales, questions, shoot me a price for carX) will be much stonger than the number released. Which means they have you by the balls.
But some of my previous statments still apply.
Figure out a price, maybe $3000 profit for them, instead of $1500. Goto the Nissan site, send out email for someone to fill the "order" with X price out the door.
But you have to call their bluff... Nobody is going to throw away a 3k profit! When they give you a line on BS about not making enough, just say... "I know your making X dollars on a deal like this, how much $ do you have to make?"
And again, keep the sales guys out of the process. Just read on edmunds about "Confessions of a car salesman". They love to rape you guys, because that means more money for them (salemen). That make $$$ on a % of the sale above "cost". They are not your friend, and just talk to hear themselves, and get you to start agreeing with them like your their "friend".
In fact IMHO sales people at a dealership are enemy #1!!!
I got mine for 29k, the dealer is super nice, and that is with kickplates, splash guards, floor mats and aero pkg. It is also a 6MT, so I am doing my best to learn how to drive a manual before it gets here.
I wish I could haggle with them a little bit more, but since it is a order I don't know if I can or not.
Check out the edmunds site about the holdback thingy. It is meant for assisting with dealer financing of cars "on the lot", gives them 90 days to float with.
But on an "ordered" car they get all that in as profit. So if on an $26,100 they get say around $768 bucks. Factor that in when they say "We are not going to sell this car for a loss, or $20 bucks" whatever thier standard BS is...
Well the "deal" I had struck with Jay Wolfe Nissan in Gladstone, MO fell through. I went up there to work out the last $250 difference we had. I was @ 26,750 they wanted 27,250... So I came up to 27,000 and they would not budge over the phone. So I said forget it... Then the manager calls me back and says "I hate to lose a sale of $250 bucks, come in and talk about it".
So I went there this weekend, finally test drove a Z. The floor manager gave me a line of **** beforehand about we sell them 1,000 under MSRP, no lower... But of course I had talked with the Internet manager about the $250 differnece.. So after I drove it, I went to see the internet manager again, and got handed off to a "pin head" sales person, that said "So where are we at on this???", I was like WTF! So I told him the story, I was at 26750, them @ 27250 and I came up to 27000 and the deal was off and the floor manager wanted me to come in and discuss it... He said "I will be right back"... Of course the freaking waiting game was on... 20 minutes we sat there... Then the "pin head" comes back and says "I don't know where (internet manager) got his numbers from, but we can't sell it at 27,250."
I was like F off... We left
Morale of this story... Should not have ever stepped foot into that dealership... Greedy little bastards... I guess $1500 was not enough profit for them @ 27,000... 27250 would have been $1,750... But to come back and say "We can't sell that car for 27,250... Gee I guess they had $$ in their eyes... Yeah $1k for each eye...
These guys act like this car is gold or something... Was not "that" impressed by it...
Hell I checked in the Phenoix AZ area within 100 miles there are 110 Z's!!!! I would not say they are selling like hotcakes anymore...
Guess they were pissed about calling their BS on the profit thing... Got pictures of their kids on the desk like I'm stealing the food out of their mouths... Whatever...
I am glad I didn't go to Jay Wolfe, they tried to get me to come up there but said they didn't have any enthusiasts in.... I didn't get the best deal, I probably could have haggled more, but I feel pretty comfortable with the dealer I went with, and hope to get some sponsorship info from them for autocross.....
Well, I have to say my buying experience was considerably less painful than NEO's. I discovered a posting on, I believe this board, where heavy discounts were proported to be available by the sales manager at the Kayser Nissan dealership in Madison. After a couple of emails and phone calls we agreed on $1,000 over invoice. My dealer said, take any model, with any combination of options using invoice value then add $1000 and were done. So, per KBB.com an Enthusiast was $26,223, I added $1000 plus the options, all at invoice values. I never went to the dealership, met no pinheads but rather worked the deal via FAX and email alone. I never actually met the sales manager, a Rob Wilkens from Kayser Nissan in Madison, WI. He is a very easy going guy and a pleasure to work with.
What's the best price I can expect on an Enthusiast?
