favo

OK folks,

Which type of Dawn are you using to strip wax before Zaino?
I have seen references to "unscented" Dawn, but as far as I can tell there is no such thing. The standard Dawn seems to be Ultra Dawn which comes in Original Scent. I assume this is what folks are using.



The other options include Dawn PowerPlus (too strong?), Dawn Plus Hand Care (w/ lotion), Fresh Escapes (scented), Antibacterial (might be a problem), and Dawn Complete (w/ lotion). The lineup from the Dawn web site:
http://www.homemadesimple.com/dawn/products.shtml

-Favo

RAW22

I used the blue Dawn that you are referring to. I could not find the unscented either.

Richard

DetailingDude

I hate to make my post on here so controversial, but this post was at the top.

Before you go using Dawn you should know that Proctor & Gamble, the manufacturers of Dawn say that you shouldn't use Dawn to wash your car. The Alkaline in the product does a fair job of taking the oils out of the wax, but Dawn can also take the oils out of your plastic trim.

This message from Proctor & Gamble

I just hate to see people sacraficing their trim on something so basic.

favo

DetailingDude,

The consensus net.wisdom seems to be that washing with Dawn once should not produce noticeable harm. I have no first-hand experience with this, so I am open to all input. I only plan on doing the Dawn wash once (ever), with a fairly dilute concentration and a thorough rinsing. The point of this (for anyone who was wondering) is to remove any existing wax buildup prior to using Zaino, and it is recommended by Zaino. It is certainly a very bad idea to regularly use Dawn to wash your car.

When you refer to the plastic trim I assume you just mean vinyl/rubber around windows and such, and not other plastic parts like the bumper and side view mirrors? Possibly one could treat the trim with a protectant before the Dawn wash to try to counteract the alkalinity? Or treat it after with a restorative? Any thoughts?

Anyone care to recommend a dilution factor for the Dawn?

Thanks,
Favo

Showcars

The "conventional wisdom" that says don't wash your car with Dawn probably comes from the popular use of carnauba wax and silicone oil to polish your car. Degreasing dish liquids eat that stuff up, which is just what you want to do before you apply Zaino.

Since Carnauba and silicone are so bad for your car's finish, I don't feel too bad about bucking that conventional wisdom.

Once you have polished your car with Zaino, washing it won't be a big problem. The dirt won't stick (like it sticks to that wax and oil), so plain water and a little Z-7 is all you need (the Z-7 acts as a lubricant, and also helps reduce water surface tension so it doesn't spot).

I recommend mixing about a tablespoon of Dawn in a 16 oz. spray bottle and spray this directly on a wet car, then gently wiping with a soft, wet cloth. Then rinse the soap off with a hose. Use a bucket of clean water to rinse the cloth often (you can dump out the bucket as often as you need). This way you don't put a dirty cloth into your soapy water, and contaminate it.

If you're worried about de-oiling your trim, use Z-16 on the trim. It'll keep it protected, without making it greasy.

--
Doug
Showcars of Texas
Authorized Zaino Distributor
512-310-8174

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

There is no problem using it once to strip off old wax and dirt before you use your Zaino.

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

Used Dawn to wash the car and then even used it as a lube when I clayed it. Then applied my Zaino.


Results:

DetailingDude

Since Carnauba and silicone are so bad for your car's finish, I don't feel too bad about bucking that conventional wisdom.

I'm not sure what you mean by that except that you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The consensus net.wisdom seems to be that washing with Dawn once should not produce noticeable harm.

We have consensus and conventional wisdom on here, however common sense is that you don't take your car to a touchless drive through car wash even once. Both are alkali-based formulas. We'd think anybody were crazy for suggesting that though, partly because of the recycled water but more so because of the chemicals.

I mean, we're looking for what is best for your car and not just what is best for your paint. There are safe alternatives to sacraficing your trim:

Option 1: You could pre-treat your trim.... if it can stand up to the alkali in Dawn.

Option 2: Use 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner which will do a much better job of cleaning your paint than Dawn could ever dream of doing. It'll get rid of any road tar where Dawn won't. It'll also completely strip off the wax.

favo

Why wouldn't 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner also remove the oils from the trim? Also, isn't there a chance that it would eat away at the adhesive holding the trim on?

The 3M stuff is also more dangerous to humans. It's extremely flammable and a skin, eye, and respiratory irritant. The MSDS recommends wearing gloves and goggles and using in a well-ventilated area. It contains the following toxic chemicals: xylene, ethylbenzene, toluene, benzene.

-Favo

jester

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that using Dawn on a car even once a year is going to hurt the trim....My 95GT with over 215K on it NEVER had a bit of problems with the trim drying out or anything like that.
If you're washing your car every weekend with the stuff...yeah I can see a problem....but as in frequently as someone would use Dawn....(even if you DON'T dress the trim with anything) should not cause a problem...

DetailingDude

I help out on several forums and I see problems from Dawn. It's not going to just wham! up and bite you. What happens is that the nutritive oils in the trim get depleted and they can dry out, especially in the hotter climates.

On the 3M GPAC there are those chemicals in it, and they can be damaging to your trim as well. However, with 3M GPAC you can control where the product goes by applying it with a towel. Plus those chemicals immediatly flash off.

...3M has put warnings on the bottle about the proper useage of the product, just like P&G about using Dawn: There is a reason 3M says use in a ventilated area and there is a reason P&G says not to use Dawn on your car.

Perhaps I am a bit too ****. I don't like to cut corners. I look at the long-term life of the vehichle and not just what it quickest today. (I'm not **** enough to put plastic sheets over my couch )

grayfox

Mmmm, washing your car after Zaino is such a dream...soooo easy. Make sure you Zaino your wheels too - makes brake dust come off so easy.

favo

It would seem you can be equally careful with Dawn by using a spray bottle to apply the Dawn solution and rinsing as you go. This was suggested by Doug earlier in the thread.

I think I will try this Dawn method. I'm not all that keen on washing the entire car with a solvent such as 3M. If there is any slight drying out of the trim, it can probably be fixed with a vinyl treatment.

The bottom line is that almost any tool or procedure, when used improperly, can cause damage or at least not work the way it was intended to. Do the research and follow the directions carefully and you should be alright.

-Favo

DetailingDude

For that method I suggest that you pretreat the trim with a trim protectant.... as someone elseon here has suggested as well.

I should also add that should you encounter any road tar that it comes off quite easily with 3M GPAC.