mikeinatlanta

How about a discussion to clear up the misinformation on this site about paint protecton film? There are obvoiusly some great installers and hacks watching this board. I think it's time to clear it up so I'll start with some of my observations and OPINIONS.

1. 3M makes kits. No, 3M only makes the film. They make no kits and endorse no kit manufacturer over another.

2. They are all 3M. Their are currently about four players in this market. 3M, Avery, and Venture Tape make urethane film. Another company (I wont name) uses Vinyl. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER USE VINYL.

3. The materials are the same. Here are the differences I know of.

3M sets the standard with great adheasion, testing data, a three year warranty, two layers of clearcoat. 3M shouldn't be streached over 20%. Even though it yellows more than the others, 3M is currently considered the all around best available.

Avery uses a better urethane than 3M, but it has no clearcoat. Avery looks better on a white car but worse on black. It seems to stain more easilly than 3M. It has lower adheasion making it unsiutable for wrapping edges. It can be streached farther than 3M. Avery backing paper does not feed as well through a cutter and is more likely to tear when removing the film. Avery costs less and has a three year warranty. It yellows less than 3M

Venture uses the best urethane but it also has no clear coat. It has the best adheasion but this makes it difficult to apply. It is not as shiny as the others. It can be streached forever. It has by far the best backing peper. Ventur has a six year warranty and will not yellow like 3M.

4. New paint is chip resistant. Proforms recent post on this is spot on.

5. People are charging more because the 350Z is a new car, prices will come down. NOT!! Check prices on cars that have been out for a while. Prices are set based on installation difficulty and material usage. You can always find someone willing to destroy your paint for less money than a professional job will cost. Look at it this way, do you think a professional painter will charge you less because you brought him the tenth 350Z paint job he has done? Do you think he will charge you less because Maco will do it for $199.99. Do you think he will charge less because you can get paint and do it yourself?

6. Part-time installers suk. Many of the best are part time. I can't take having my hands wet from installs every day. My skin starts to fall off. I think the real issue is are they a real business, with reals customer service, warranty, and yes, profits. Lots of people think they can make an easy buck when they see markup on this product. Anyone who puts a kit on the 350Z for $450.00 is not going to be around long.


flame suit on!!
Mike@dynashield.com

BILZ Z

I have a hard time believing #4. How is it that new paints are chip resistant?? I'm of the opinion, mind you it's my opinion, that the newer paints put on cars these days are actually worse than in years past.

mikeinatlanta

My point exactly. I just didn't want to steal from proforms post. paint is in fact getting more chip prone, not less

jhchan

Nice post. Got a question, whats the deal with Xpel? Are they just a company that remarkets the 3M stuff? Thanks.

mikeinatlanta

Xpel clearbra.com is a company that designs and manufactures paint protection film kits. They use both 3M and avery films. They offer a kit that is designed to provide the most protection at an afordable cost. Their kits are very well designed given the limitations they have placed on design (24" wide material and no edge wrapping). Thier kits tend to be the ones installed at car dealers and on lower priced cars.

Stongard stongard.com is a slightly higher end kit that offers a little more protection at a higher cost. they use 3M film only (except headlights). Their kits tend to look better than Xpel but are harder to install. A do it yourself install would be better with Xpel.

DynaShield (websit not up yet) full wrap kits are a premium, no compromize kit. they are designed for only the most high-end and enthusiest cars only. They offer the most protection 3m material can provide. They are best siuted for those who want only the best and are willing to pay for it. Their are currently only three CERTIFIED installers in the country, but any retailer can procure them and do the install. Certification only means they have actually demonstrated proficiency and have a reputation for customer service.

Their are others making kits. they tend to fall between Xpel and StonGard in coverage. Quality varies greatly. Many are just relabled Xpel kits.

mwaller

Mike-
where are these "certified" installers located? Any in SoCal?
Mika

mikeinatlanta

Sorry, none in CA
autosupershield.com in FL , CGM Detroit, and Boundary Layer Products (me) in Atlanta. I am not saying others can't do a fine job. I have only been manufacturing kits for about a year and haven't had time to certify more. Any retailer with a tax ID can buy a kit wholesale. If someone says I won't sell them a kit, it means they are either not legit, or have a bad reputation. Ricochet in D.C. should be certified soon, but it hasn't happened yet.

irishfan

"3M yellows more than the others"
How quickly does this happen - 6 months or 3 years? Is it more noticeable on certain colors than others? I think yellowing is one of my biggest concerns, but I definitely need the protection. Are there any other considerations we should be awar of based on car color?

WashUJon

I'd like to know about the yellowing, too. I'm going to be getting a PPW Z and I would guess that the yellowing would show worse on a white car. Maybe I'll forgo the 3M and just put many coats of wax on the car...

mikeinatlanta

the only problem 3M has with yellowing is on very white cars and high heat areas. After about a year a WRX will yellow around the hood scoop. This is way hotter than a 350Z will get. 3M has been on cars for eight years with no significant yellowing problems. It has been know to yelow due to unknown chemicals used during installation and cleaning. the 350Z actually comes from the factory with film in front of the rear wheels.
Of all colors, Black looks worst when new but tends to look better with time. White tends to look dingy over time. All other colors have no issues.

mikeinatlanta

Wax won't stop rocks. You might want to look at a white car that has had the 3M film on for at least a year and see how you like it. If you don't, Avery and Venture do very well on white. Of the two, I would endorse Venture. Venture has a six year warranty against yelllowing and looks MUCH better on white than 3M. It is also the toughest film on the market. They recently kicked everyones behind in a durability test at Ferrari. I can make both the DynaShield wrap and non-wrap kit from Venture. Venture is the material of choice for race cars.

irishfan

Thanks Mike - this is a GREAT thread!
Not to moderators - he should get a lot of points for starting this one!

mwaller

If Venture is such great stuff, why would you use 3M???
You mention that that it doesn't have a clear coat. How does this affect the appearance once the car is waxed?
Thanks,
Mika

mikeinatlanta

Thanks dude. I just ran out of tolerance for misinformation. It is a cancer that can quickly ruin a good site such as this one. That's one thing I like about Roadfly, the mods are very quick to flush crap down the toilet. As PROFORM stated, this is a growth industry. The rapid growth leads to the horror stories we have been reading about.

mikeinatlanta

First and foremost, reputation. 3M has the reputation. 3M looks better on all colors except white. Actually, it would be more accurate to say it is easier to make 3M look better on all colors but white.

The issue of durability without clearcoat is under testing. We currently have Venture on a race car tow truck that sees very severe use. Avery quickly (two months) stained. We will see how Venture holds up to this abuse. So for, so good.

Wax on any of these products will only help.

mwaller

Mike-
Are you able to recommend any installers in the LA area for your 3M kit? This whole business is making me really nervous, but I'd like to have the protection. Fortuntately, I won't even have a car to protect until November... time is on my side...
Thanks,
Mika

Golu

Very good information. Thanx a lot Mike..

I will be installing from Stongard next Thus on my CS 350z. They are using my car for making the kit and hence giving me some discount on installing.

Accordin to Stongrad, the only problematic color is Black and that too for 1st few days after installation. I think you can see some bubbles on it. Otherwise all other colors r good.

I will keep all of u people posted no how its goes.. and how the Stongard fits on car etc.

Thanx

-Golu.

mikeinatlanta

Sorry, I don't know anyone there. You might want to start with Xpel and StonGard. Use your time to check references and look at their work. Is you have good results tell us all. In fact, tell us if you have bad results too.

mikeinatlanta

StonGard does some very good kits. They will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have. I can't wait to see how their kit looks.
StonGard is well aware of the problems white has with 3M. I don't know why they wouldn't tell you. What color is your Z