Drifting 101 - a guide/insight to drifting the z

[JasonZ-YA]

Hi,

I have noticed a lot of people asking what do you need for drifting?, what do i take?, where do I buy tires? etc.

I hope that todays lesson will help answer some questions of drifting the Nissan 350Z. This is Z specific, so lets keep 240 stuff out of it.

I don't claim to be an expert at all, but i am smart enough to know the in's and out's and have had the opportunity to meet and talk drifting with those that do.

Input is welcome as this thread is aimed

TO HELP PEOPLE INTERESTED IN DRIFTING - NOT BASH PEOPLE! So lets keep this informative!


FIRST
Obviously you need tires and extra wheels:

1. Most drive out to an event in their Z:

That being said:
You need to have a good set of tires/wheels to drive home on. Drifting will kill your tires and you run the risk of peeling a patch of belt off your tires and they will not be daily drivable.

Most have a buddy/friend/wife drive a truck with their spare tires/wheels in the back of a truck or work out an arrangement with friends.

SO.:
spinning off that, you need at least 6 wheels. The Z is a heavy car, and it loves to eat up tires.

that being said, its possible to run the same two tires up front all day, and swap out between two pair in the rear.

BEGINNER:
See a few things may happen as a new beginner drifter:

1. You may spin out every freak'n time you go out on course which will kill tires quick....

2. You may AutoX the course and try initiating drifts...fish tail it, back off, autoX sa-more, fishtail it...etc.......as a timid beginner and not wear out so much tires...

or

3. you may pick it up like a natural and eat up 6 or more tires total in one day out there...


SECOND:
After obtaining a spare set of wheels. I say go out to events and see if you enjoy drifting.

if you do, then the investment you made of buying extra OEM wheels? after market wheels, whatever you bought has paid off and you will continue.....

If you didn't enjoy it, then sell your wheels and cut your losses to a minimum.

THIRD: TOOLS

Of course the obvious, jack, jack stands, breaker bar, torque wrench. (HEAVY DUTY WIRE CUTTERS - see #5 below)

All needed for mounting/dismounting tires day of event.


THE Z DOESN'T NEED ANYTHING TO DRIFT.

In stock form, you can go out there and have a very enjoyable day. But of course like any other track day sport there are always supporting mods that are recommended.....

JASON'S RECOMMENDATION OF MODS:
(in order of importance)*

*now of course, thats up to your opinion, and once again i don't claim to be a pro/expert......input is welcome.

NUMBER 1 - TIE RODS:
Yes, i know that seems odd, but let me explain why. The 350Z's tail loves to kick out. Most times more than you wish it to...once you hit that point of max angle that the front wheels can lock too, your good.....BUT!!! any more angle and you WILL spin out! - because your front wheel steering angle cant match the rear!!

I consider this number one, because to me its a safety issue.....

Unless your drift day event is in a complete open asphalt your good......but if there are light poles, curbs, etc.......it could end up bad!! get my Drift (---ha, i made a funny! )

Install of tie rods:
Also, when you install longer arm tie rods to get more steering angle you need to cut down, then grind down the factory steering stops!

Tein tie rods:




Z factory steering stops:
Removable stops mounted off the spindle casting that need to be chopped in half and rounded with a grinder. SEE PICS! Obviously you need to do this to use that added angle the tie rods give you!




NUMBER 2 - LSD:
The stock VLSD is meh at best, you may drift on that no problem for little while, but based on the Z's age now, most vlsd units have lost their viscosity and they are getting no limited slip characteristics anymore....so 90 percent of those with vlsd are operating like open diffs........especially at a drift event..

the advantages of having an good LSD are 100X better!!!!

let me say it again! 100 times better!!!!

NUMBER 3 - Clutch:
Yes, clutch kicking the Z will eat up the stock clutch. (speaking from experience).......NA power, the JWT with stock flywheel will hold up all day clutch kicking in TEXAS heat drift days.....

I personally wouldn't go with anything stronger because when it comes to something failing, i would rather it be a fairly inexpensive clutch over a blown 2nd gear!

so i would stay away from twin disc or high horse power rated clutches.....once again this is speaking NA z power.

NUMBER 4 - SUSPENSION:
Get adjustable coil overs! Don't skimp on spring/shock combo.....reason i say is when your a average joe drifter........you get deals on wheels and tires where you find them....

So if you have to swap between 18x9.5 wheels to 17x9 wheels, with different offsets, etc.........you can run into fender rubbing issues.......i do even with my fenders rolled already! So being able to learn what your spare wheels (whatever size they are) allows for, gives you the opportunity to adjust your cars height, etc to be able to accept the multiple wheel sets you have for drifting.

I own 18 wheels.....18x9's, some 18X8 oem wheels, 17x9, +20, 17x9 +17, etc.....get it?!?! sometimes im running 245's, sometimes 225's, sometimes 255's with anywhere from 35/45 etc aspect ratio...

NUMBER 5 - STEEL BRAIDED BRAKE LINES:

Well, you can make this one number 5 or you can make it number 1 on your list.....

Here is why: When you drift, you wear the tires to a point where you can possibly "CHORD" the tires......

you can wear long skinny strips of tire that flap around and slap the inside of the fender well.......its a distinctive sound..... AT TIMES, the chords will get wrapped around the rear spindle, (brake lines ) etc....that being said, if you snag an OEM RUBBER brake line, your gonna be sad.... and driving the Z home can be dangerous considering you have a brake line busted or leaking....

So bring some heavy duty wire cutters to cut way chords in between drift runs....

"crZydave" can vouch for me on this, as he saw me cutting away chords from my rear wheel area at my last drift event.

PICS OF CHORDING!






SO, i say steel braided lines to help prevent this. Since that can make a fun day go to a bummer day really quickly

OPTIONAL:
NUMBER 6 - UPGRADE POWER STEERING COOLER:
Yes, I needed to do this, because during Texas Heat, July events i had boiling PS fluid and a weaker steering response.....

Easy cheap $30 fix is here: http://my350z.com/forum/engine-drive...ng-cooler.html

Some may never need to do this depending on where you live and temperatures...


NUMBER 7 - E-brake upgrade:

I put this to the end because its not needed to drift a Z, as you become more advanced you may care for it, as a quick E-brake pull can help correct a slightly bad angle, or make a good angle better!!!

7.1 Project Mu rear brake shoes.
http://www.my350z.com/forum/drift/34...-grippy-f.html


7.2 Pay big money and have a Hydrualic e-brake installed.

http://my350z.com/forum/2244750-post35.html
SEE POST 31 AND 34 OF THIS THREAD FOR MORE INFO ON THIS

7.3 Pay bigger money and have a 2nd caliper installed in the rear.
http://my350z.com/forum/attachments/...e-dsc_0277.jpg

TOOLS - ADVANCED:
1. Cordless impact gun to help swap tires on sight.

I own two 24V Pepboy's $99 dollar impacts and I love them! the best tools im my garage are my impacts!!

PICS:


Of course you don't need this....just a nice thing to have. Really nice thing to have...


*********************************************

WHEELS:
As a side note: I purchased all my extra wheels on the forum, off fellow drifters etc...

I paid 300 bucks for 6 wheels one time....
400 bucks for another 4 another time.
I drove to corpus and purchased 4 Oem wheels for 50 bucks once from a forum member on here...
ebay, craigslist...etc...you do what you gotta do to get your drifting fix.....lol..

SEE THIS THREAD ON WHEELS FOR DRIFTING:

TIRE BUYING:

I go to mom and pop tire shops with a buddy and a truck.....Don't take the Z as they will not give you a deal if you show up in a Z.....if they ask what car its going on, i tell them a 95 mustang...LOL...

When you buy in bulk you save!

I typically roll up to a tire shop and have money (CASH!) to purchase at least 4 tires!

At first they see if your an idiot and tell you "50 dollars a tire" and then i literally laugh in their face and tell them, "no way"....flash some cash and then tell them 25 a tire........or ill go elsewhere.

Usually i pay 20-30 bucks a tire....

I have a laundry list of places i drive too.....

I inspect every tire closely and make sure there are no plugs/patches, etc...and at least 6/32 thread still on them or more........

"crZydave" can vouch for this too, as he saw my spare tires at the event and flipped out that i got them for 20 bucks each that time......

-------all this crap said and done my favorite mod is in my sig.......LOL>..

[JasonZ-YA]

MORE INFO ON TIERODS:
OKAY,
Most dont know this, but Tein Tie rods are IDENTICAL copies of OEM tie rods! the ONLY difference is that the tein tie rods are about 3 threads longer on the shaft that attaches to the power steering rack!

That being said i have seen people NOT BUY tie rods and purchase small aluminum or steel spacers to a thickness they are comfortable with.

The spacers shown in the pic below are 6mm thick if i remember correctly.

Do i recommend this - NO COMMENT! Just some FYI. your a smart puppy, you decide.

You can buy the two aluminum spacers for 20 bucks from SPLparts.com - i believe its under their 300zx suspension section... If not call them to order..

Also search Ebay for 240sx Tie rod spacers - Seller Name: GKTECH DIRECT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT



UPDATE:
Pid of Tein inners with spacer on them:


COMMENTS?

- J

[JasonZ-YA]

SMALL TIRE TRAILERS

CAR HAULER - TRAILER

HITCH INSTALL - DISCOUNT CODE

[JasonZ-YA]

OH YA, FORGOT TO MENTION ALIGNMENT.....

In the sport of drifting, you find your self having to get your alignment done quite often. That being said, Firestone and NTB offer alignment specials.....

Firestone offers a life time alignment.

NTB offers either 1yr, 3yr, or 5 yr alignment specials.

Now, i choose NTB, because my cousin got to know the guys at the NTB back home and they were cool with him as they were all sports car enthusiast also.

I was lucky enough to find an NTB close to my new place here in DALLAS that has one of the only IN GROUND alignment racks......So i no longer have to show up with my 2x10 wooden home made ramps...lol.

Alignment is different on drifting than say AutoX, road racing, etc....mainly in the rear to speak....

REAR:
WHILE IN DRIFT - PEDAL TO THE METAL - The Z is tearing up tires....and the Z is actually butt down, nose high!


I have two bags of 80lb cement that i keep in my garage.......I put both bags in the back of the Z and then i have them put my camber at -1.0 to -1.1 in the rear. The weight of the cement mimic the power on when drifting and squat!

See, I'm a budget drifter, i haz no tire sponsor (feel free to inquire if you wanna buy me tires ) So i need to get the most out of my tires as I can versus running neg camber and eating the inside only and wearing through tires quicker.......

I also purchase really good grippy tires up front and higher wear rating tires for the rear to get all that i can get.........the most laps out of an event...etc.. I lub me some RE-01's with that hard sidwall and good grip!


PICS of my tires after an event:

as you can see, no chording and even wear all the way across for the most part......

Previously I was like this:

take note, this wasnt out of spec camber, but more like -1.5 in the rear with no cement in the back...


FRONT:
I aim for direction and run:
-1.5 to -1.7 and an aggressive toe, in spec though...

- J



Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfS3WYLtpoo

VIDEO of me at 2:08 min in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npDQOHKaHsQ

[RedBullRR]

Excellent Write Up!

[Motormouth]

don't want to clutter the thread, but great read. make sure to go back and edit and clarify yourself if you re-read it and see some gaps in your explanation.

and also, I thought this was going to be about 'how to' drift I was pleasantly surprised. great job

[AcidJake75]

there he goes, doing write-ups while at work.. I lol'd on the "get the drift" joke..

[amg55driver]

I want to add something on your tire/wheel section.

If you dont have BBK, I would recomend getting a set of 17's in a good offset. (FN01R).
and get a STICKY front tires (Falken RT615 FTW), and get some shitty CHEAP tires in the back. be careful on the NANKANGs, because they will last you three laps max (from own experience).

I have been into drifting for 5 or more years from s13/s14/ae86 to 350z, I have to have 350z was the most easy and fun from NA drifting among those.

and I also want to ass a side note on the LSD section.

MAKE SURE you get the 2way (if you are DD ur z, then stay with your factory VLSD and keep change your diff oil after one day of event).

2way lsd can be very annoying if you drift your z everyday and it could also be a little dangerous if you are novice driver.

reason why it is + to change your diff oil after every event, because our VLSD is based on the diff oil's viscousity, and when the LSD wears off and heats up, the viscousity goes down, and the oil gets lighter, then ur LSD keeps slipping, and you have no control of two wheels in the back. changing ur oil everytime, will reduce the wearing issue of the LSD, and keep the pumpkin clean.

Other issue you may have with your factory Z will be the tie-rod (#1 on the list), and it is almost impossible to get the perfect angle that you want on the corners, without changing your factory tie-rods. Tein is a nice add, and give you about 5~10% more angle (not accurate, but feels like) in the front for your control.

THE MOST IMPORTANT KEY OF THE DRIFTING PERIOD. WILL BE:
LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO! KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD, NOT WALLS.

I been there done that, if you get scared, than spin out, dont push the limit.
and most of the track have skit pad that are wet, so practice the angle.

I hope this helped. and OP, great post!!

[JasonZ-YA]

Thanks guys!

AMG - you do bring up some good points! thanks for the addition!

Definitely right about putting your best, grip-iest tires up fronts....RT615's are some of the best for this....as i have seen many at drift events run 615's up front all day long!

-J

[JasonZ-YA]

Originally Posted by AcidJake75

there he goes, doing write-ups while at work.. I lol'd on the "get the drift" joke..

ya know, when i wrote that little joke, I knew jake would like it...lol..

-J

[lgear080]

Jason knows the details.... I am not sure if this has been posed before,
and I think I already know the answer... Can an AT Z be drifted "effectively"?

Thoughts pls.

[JasonZ-YA]

^^ well, i dont know if i know the answer to that, but ill take a shot at it...

Dont all the AT Z's have the +/- option to where you can keep it in whatever gear choice you want until you up shift " + " or down shift " - ".

that being said, i would think you could starting in third on high speed entry's and downshifting to 2nd to finish kinda thing??

- J

[amg55driver]

i think all AT comes with VLSD and higher final drive gear ratio,
so, you could use "2nd gear" all day long for drifting.
you will hit red line everytime, but i think you should be fine.

(I got the new g35 sedan as a loaner car from my audi dealer, I tried to play around with the car, it actually did sideways pretty easy and "effective" and yes, it was automatic. so I see why not? you can not e-brake drift, but atleast you can do power-over; shifting weight from side to side, or power-slide; gas pedal down to the flooooor!)

[BERTO]

Wow great Write up!

[willyd6869]

did someone say chording?

[JasonZ-YA]

Originally Posted by willyd6869

did someone say chording?

^^ ha ha...awesome!

-j

[autodrifter4]

great info jason! and as far as the automatic drifting...i got a VB upgrade and just try to feint or just brake really hard transferring the weight to the front of the car and then turning in to get the tail out.

I was thinking about adding a hydro e-brake but im not sure if its good for the car, but with a hydraulic e-brake i could initiate drifts better and extend them.

Im also going to try changing the fluid on my VLSD. And what about welding LSDs? Ive done that on my 240 and it worked great.

great info guys! keep it coming!

[JasonZ-YA]

^^ To answer your question,

THEY break! simple as that! The Z diff CAN be welded. But if you track/drift your car, you will break it..........

many have done this, all have failed.

now, if you dont track your car, some have had them last a reasonable amount of time.......but soon break....

on a 240 its another story! those diffs are strong as rocks! If i owned a 240 i would weld it for sure!

-J

[autodrifter4]

ahh, well looks like i wont be doing that then!

you think getting a hydraulic e-brake would be for an auto Z?

[JasonZ-YA]

^^ Im sure it wouldn't hurt....its gotta help it im sure after you initiate drift with power and clutch.