VQ Oil Analysis and Info
#121
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Resolute:
Question... and yes I have read the entire thread many times over. lol I actually used some of this info for my letter to Infiniti to replace my longblack after it blew up due to oil consumption...5 quarts in 1,500 miles!!!
What are your thoughts on using a metal additive like Zmax. They claim not to be an oil additive. What about oil additives like Prolong and Slick 50.
I used Z max in my Mustang and honestly could feel the difference. I didnt take it to the dyno, put 2nd gear was more audible...lol.
Your thoughts....?
Question... and yes I have read the entire thread many times over. lol I actually used some of this info for my letter to Infiniti to replace my longblack after it blew up due to oil consumption...5 quarts in 1,500 miles!!!
What are your thoughts on using a metal additive like Zmax. They claim not to be an oil additive. What about oil additives like Prolong and Slick 50.
I used Z max in my Mustang and honestly could feel the difference. I didnt take it to the dyno, put 2nd gear was more audible...lol.
Your thoughts....?
Last edited by 4SHIZZIL; 08-13-2007 at 07:57 AM.
#122
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Well tomorrow the AMSOIL 0w30 oil sample will be in the mail to blackstone so we'll see how that goes.
I put in the schaeffer's 7000 5w30, got it for 75 bucks for a case of 12 after shipping from the local guy in colorado springs. The stuff is strange too, it's green in color, just like your descriptions of the castrol euro formula - and has a similar smell IMO as well. I'll send it in for an oil sample when I change it out as well. I'm waiting to see my AMSOIL report before I decide how many miles to put on the schaeffer's oil - I put 4000 on the AMSOIL.
I put in the schaeffer's 7000 5w30, got it for 75 bucks for a case of 12 after shipping from the local guy in colorado springs. The stuff is strange too, it's green in color, just like your descriptions of the castrol euro formula - and has a similar smell IMO as well. I'll send it in for an oil sample when I change it out as well. I'm waiting to see my AMSOIL report before I decide how many miles to put on the schaeffer's oil - I put 4000 on the AMSOIL.
Last edited by shushikiary; 08-20-2007 at 01:57 PM.
#123
Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
I have 'heard' that M1 has recently changed its formula to the extent that it is no-longer considered fully synthetic. Is this true and do you still recommend it?
That being said. I don't know what Mobil uses in it's oils, and I don't really care. It's proprietary info and I don't see the point in getting your shorts in a wad over something that doesn't matter. If the oil performs well, then that's all that matters.
Knowing an oil's base stock can help in making an educated guess on what oils "might" do well if there has not been a UOA done. But, there is so much more to an oil than base stock, even that wouldn't be a good bet on choosing an oil. Hence why choosing Motul 300V 5W-30 might seem like a good bet since they use a good amount of Ester in their base stock, but the overall formulation doesn't work well for the daily driver. So, it's a crapshoot to base what oils you try on base stocks alone.
That being said, Mobil1 0W-40 is a fully synthetic oil. First off, a hydrocracked oil can't achieve that weight. not without a rediculous amount of viscosity index improvers, and that would deteriorate the base stock, and lower the TBN drastically. The M1 0W-40 has shown high TBN and shear stability, even after several track days. Second, and the most compelling evidence, is the fact that M1 0W-40 has an Aniline point of 254 degrees F, and Mobil 1's PAO6 has an aniline point of 257 degrees F:
http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Pu...raSyn_Plus.pdf
That's too close to be a coincidence, especially when you consider the viscosity spread. Finally, M1 0W-40 is BMW LL-01 spec certified, which is only given to oils that are PAO or Ester base stocks that also meet BMW's criteria. M1 0W-40 and Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 are the ONLY oils sold in the US to have the LL-01 certification. M1 0W-40 is also the ONLY oil sold in the US that meets both of Mercedes Benz' certifications of MB 229.3 and 229.5. There are NO conventional or Group3 oils to meet these specs either, they are all fully synthetic.
So, yeah I think this oil is a "fully synthetic PAO base stock" oil. The other weights, such as the M1 5W-30 or 10W-30- who knows or cares? They don't do as well in the VQ as the M1 0W-40 so why bother even using them, much less wonder what they're made of? Maybe I'll give the High Mileage a shot and see how it does, or the Mobil1 5W-40... but the M1 0W-40 has already shown itself to be a good oil from ExxonMobil's stable of products so I'm in no hurry to try another one.
Will
#124
Originally Posted by 4SHIZZIL G-SPOT
Resolute:
Question... and yes I have read the entire thread many times over. lol I actually used some of this info for my letter to Infiniti to replace my longblack after it blew up due to oil consumption...5 quarts in 1,500 miles!!!
What are your thoughts on using a metal additive like Zmax. They claim not to be an oil additive. What about oil additives like Prolong and Slick 50.
I used Z max in my Mustang and honestly could feel the difference. I didnt take it to the dyno, put 2nd gear was more audible...lol.
Your thoughts....?
Question... and yes I have read the entire thread many times over. lol I actually used some of this info for my letter to Infiniti to replace my longblack after it blew up due to oil consumption...5 quarts in 1,500 miles!!!
What are your thoughts on using a metal additive like Zmax. They claim not to be an oil additive. What about oil additives like Prolong and Slick 50.
I used Z max in my Mustang and honestly could feel the difference. I didnt take it to the dyno, put 2nd gear was more audible...lol.
Your thoughts....?
I would use some oil additives that contain MoTDC, Boron, or ZDDP as the principal anti-wear or friction modifier. Valvoline SynPower Oil Treatment(VSOT) has shown good oil wear improvement when you use about 1oz per qt of oil. Schaeffer's makes a good Moly addiitve and Torco has a nice Moly/Boron/ZDDP additive that can be used in the same amounts as the VSOT.
Will
#125
Originally Posted by shushikiary
Well tomorrow the AMSOIL 0w40 oil sample will be in the mail to blackstone so we'll see how that goes.
I put in the schaeffer's 7000 5w30, got it for 75 bucks for a case of 12 after shipping from the local guy in colorado springs. The stuff is strange too, it's green in color, just like your descriptions of the castrol euro formula - and has a similar smell IMO as well. I'll send it in for an oil sample when I change it out as well. I'm waiting to see my AMSOIL report before I decide how many miles to put on the schaeffer's oil - I put 4000 on the AMSOIL.
I put in the schaeffer's 7000 5w30, got it for 75 bucks for a case of 12 after shipping from the local guy in colorado springs. The stuff is strange too, it's green in color, just like your descriptions of the castrol euro formula - and has a similar smell IMO as well. I'll send it in for an oil sample when I change it out as well. I'm waiting to see my AMSOIL report before I decide how many miles to put on the schaeffer's oil - I put 4000 on the AMSOIL.
Will
#126
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Originally Posted by Resolute
Who cares? Really, what does it matter what the base stocks are if the oil performs well. If there is one thing to see from all the oils tested o far, it is that base stock formulations mean nothing if the overall package isn't formulated well. There is a reason Catrol GTX 5W-30, a conventional oil, has outperformed Motul 5W-30, an oil that uses "superior" Ester base stock oils. Schaeffer's is probably one of the absolute best oils out there, and they use Group3 hydroisomerized base stock oil. They have been blending oils longer than any company in the U.S. and they know the base stock is secondary to a proper additive package. Arguing over whether an oil is realy a synthetic, or whether it uses Esters or PAO's... it's all hype. Use an oil that has proven to perform well in your engine- ignore what name is on the label.
That being said. I don't know what Mobil uses in it's oils, and I don't really care. It's proprietary info and I don't see the point in getting your shorts in a wad over something that doesn't matter. If the oil performs well, then that's all that matters.
Knowing an oil's base stock can help in making an educated guess on what oils "might" do well if there has not been a UOA done. But, there is so much more to an oil than base stock, even that wouldn't be a good bet on choosing an oil. Hence why choosing Motul 300V 5W-30 might seem like a good bet since they use a good amount of Ester in their base stock, but the overall formulation doesn't work well for the daily driver. So, it's a crapshoot to base what oils you try on base stocks alone.
That being said, Mobil1 0W-40 is a fully synthetic oil. First off, a hydrocracked oil can't achieve that weight. not without a rediculous amount of viscosity index improvers, and that would deteriorate the base stock, and lower the TBN drastically. The M1 0W-40 has shown high TBN and shear stability, even after several track days. Second, and the most compelling evidence, is the fact that M1 0W-40 has an Aniline point of 254 degrees F, and Mobil 1's PAO6 has an aniline point of 257 degrees F:
http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Pu...raSyn_Plus.pdf
That's too close to be a coincidence, especially when you consider the viscosity spread. Finally, M1 0W-40 is BMW LL-01 spec certified, which is only given to oils that are PAO or Ester base stocks that also meet BMW's criteria. M1 0W-40 and Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 are the ONLY oils sold in the US to have the LL-01 certification. M1 0W-40 is also the ONLY oil sold in the US that meets both of Mercedes Benz' certifications of MB 229.3 and 229.5. There are NO conventional or Group3 oils to meet these specs either, they are all fully synthetic.
So, yeah I think this oil is a "fully synthetic PAO base stock" oil. The other weights, such as the M1 5W-30 or 10W-30- who knows or cares? They don't do as well in the VQ as the M1 0W-40 so why bother even using them, much less wonder what they're made of? Maybe I'll give the High Mileage a shot and see how it does, or the Mobil1 5W-40... but the M1 0W-40 has already shown itself to be a good oil from ExxonMobil's stable of products so I'm in no hurry to try another one.
Will
That being said. I don't know what Mobil uses in it's oils, and I don't really care. It's proprietary info and I don't see the point in getting your shorts in a wad over something that doesn't matter. If the oil performs well, then that's all that matters.
Knowing an oil's base stock can help in making an educated guess on what oils "might" do well if there has not been a UOA done. But, there is so much more to an oil than base stock, even that wouldn't be a good bet on choosing an oil. Hence why choosing Motul 300V 5W-30 might seem like a good bet since they use a good amount of Ester in their base stock, but the overall formulation doesn't work well for the daily driver. So, it's a crapshoot to base what oils you try on base stocks alone.
That being said, Mobil1 0W-40 is a fully synthetic oil. First off, a hydrocracked oil can't achieve that weight. not without a rediculous amount of viscosity index improvers, and that would deteriorate the base stock, and lower the TBN drastically. The M1 0W-40 has shown high TBN and shear stability, even after several track days. Second, and the most compelling evidence, is the fact that M1 0W-40 has an Aniline point of 254 degrees F, and Mobil 1's PAO6 has an aniline point of 257 degrees F:
http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Pu...raSyn_Plus.pdf
That's too close to be a coincidence, especially when you consider the viscosity spread. Finally, M1 0W-40 is BMW LL-01 spec certified, which is only given to oils that are PAO or Ester base stocks that also meet BMW's criteria. M1 0W-40 and Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 are the ONLY oils sold in the US to have the LL-01 certification. M1 0W-40 is also the ONLY oil sold in the US that meets both of Mercedes Benz' certifications of MB 229.3 and 229.5. There are NO conventional or Group3 oils to meet these specs either, they are all fully synthetic.
So, yeah I think this oil is a "fully synthetic PAO base stock" oil. The other weights, such as the M1 5W-30 or 10W-30- who knows or cares? They don't do as well in the VQ as the M1 0W-40 so why bother even using them, much less wonder what they're made of? Maybe I'll give the High Mileage a shot and see how it does, or the Mobil1 5W-40... but the M1 0W-40 has already shown itself to be a good oil from ExxonMobil's stable of products so I'm in no hurry to try another one.
Will
With that beign said, I have been doing some research on Mobil's site and have come across their Extended Performance oils.
In my situation, if they do happen to make a M1 Extended Performance in 0w-40, would you suggest that?
According to M1's site, it contains 50% more protective additives than the standard M1. To my eyes, this can only be a benefit with the added protection.
Your thoughts, sir?
Edit: According to M1's site: They DO NOT make Extended Perf in 0w-40. It starts off as 5w-20 and then goes to 5w-30 which is what I have been using for the longest.
Last edited by Blu_Blur; 08-14-2007 at 08:38 AM.
#131
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Originally Posted by QuadCam
i saw the disturbing Motul 8100 UOA. Do you have any UOA for the Motul 300V 5W40? I have been running this type of the 300V in my twin turbo VQ.
I am thinking of having a UOA performed on it now.. to whom and where do I send the oil? Blackstone labs?
I am thinking of having a UOA performed on it now.. to whom and where do I send the oil? Blackstone labs?
The motul 300v UOA is here:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...3&postcount=76
the motul 8100 econergy 5W30 is here:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...7&postcount=87
If your TT is built then the 300v might work better for you as the engine tolerances, etc are different than a stock VQ, so a UOA from you would be very nice! But if you're stock block I wouldnt use it.
#132
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I found blacktone's website and filled out the info required to get an oil test kit.
I will get mine tested as I am running a stock motor "revup" VQ with 30,000 + miles with a 10 psi greddy TT kit. My current oil is Motul 300V 5W40. I noticed that the UOA in the previous link was from the 5W30.
I will get mine tested as I am running a stock motor "revup" VQ with 30,000 + miles with a 10 psi greddy TT kit. My current oil is Motul 300V 5W40. I noticed that the UOA in the previous link was from the 5W30.
#133
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Originally Posted by QuadCam
I found blacktone's website and filled out the info required to get an oil test kit.
I will get mine tested as I am running a stock motor "revup" VQ with 30,000 + miles with a 10 psi greddy TT kit. My current oil is Motul 300V 5W40. I noticed that the UOA in the previous link was from the 5W30.
I will get mine tested as I am running a stock motor "revup" VQ with 30,000 + miles with a 10 psi greddy TT kit. My current oil is Motul 300V 5W40. I noticed that the UOA in the previous link was from the 5W30.
ah, missed that, sorry. Well then it will be good to see what the 5w40 does!
#135
Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
I care because I know only the very basics of oil and I am trying to educate myself. To a person that is ignorant of most of the nuances and intricacies of modern oil, whether or not is fully synthetic could mean the world. In addition, I am not getting 'my shorts in a wad', I just want to make sure I am making the best decision possible for my Z at this important point in time since the turbo system is getting reinstalled.
M1 0W-40 is a great example since it has shown excellent results. You asked if you should still use it, or if I still recommend it, if it wasn't a synthetic. If it wasn't a synthetic, would you still consider using it despite the great results? If not, that would be a shame. If someone tells you that their preferred oil is fully synthetic, or that M1 is not fully synthetic- it doesn't matter and you really shouldn't care since you know the oil performs great in your engine. What you care about is whether it performs well in your engine, right? If it was conventional and worked great, does that mean you wouldn't use it? Conversely, if it was a "fully synthetic" oil and didn't hold up nearly as well as other conventional oils, would you still use it just because it says "synthetic" on the bottle? We have seen this very circumstance where a conventional works better than several synthetics, and some people will continue to ignore the conventional oil's results simply because it's not a "synthetic" oil. Some people will continue to ignore the great results M1 0W-40 has shown, simply because of rumors that it might not be "fully synthetic." And some will continue to use an oil that has repeatedly shown less than average results, simply because it is hyped as the "best synthetic." If there is one thing I would like readers of this sticky to see, it is that the data does not always support the hype of advertising. Ignore the label and synthetic titles, and use what has proven to work best for your application. There's no question the M1 0W-40 is a great oil for the VQ, the UOA's show this, so second-guessing the oil because of questions about it's base stock makes no sense to me.
I understand that you want to learn about oils, and that's what this thread is for, but the key piece of information in this thread is the UOA comparison chart that shows which oils have done well in the VQ. Knowing which are synthetic and not is conjecture for the most part, and as I have repeatedly stated and what the data has shown, is that an oil's base stock is not a solid indicator of how well it will perform. Since we know that M1 0W-40 is a great performer, why bother worrying about the base stock? We know it works well. The bigger mystery is why some of the "best" synthetic oils don't perform as well as several conventional oils.
Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
With that beign said, I have been doing some research on Mobil's site and have come across their Extended Performance oils.
In my situation, if they do happen to make a M1 Extended Performance in 0w-40, would you suggest that?
According to M1's site, it contains 50% more protective additives than the standard M1. To my eyes, this can only be a benefit with the added protection.
Your thoughts, sir?
Edit: According to M1's site: They DO NOT make Extended Perf in 0w-40. It starts off as 5w-20 and then goes to 5w-30 which is what I have been using for the longest.
In my situation, if they do happen to make a M1 Extended Performance in 0w-40, would you suggest that?
According to M1's site, it contains 50% more protective additives than the standard M1. To my eyes, this can only be a benefit with the added protection.
Your thoughts, sir?
Edit: According to M1's site: They DO NOT make Extended Perf in 0w-40. It starts off as 5w-20 and then goes to 5w-30 which is what I have been using for the longest.
Since you asked, my "shot in the dark" would be to look at the 10W-30 High Mileage oil from Mobil1 if you don't want to go with the 0W-40. It has shown nice results in other turbocharged engines, whereas the EP line hasn't looked as good as the 0W-40 in other engines. There is a decent collection of UOA's on the HM oil from other engines on the oildrop server, so it is a good candidate to try. I have not been as impressed with the EP oil UOA's so far, but there is none from the VQ using either oil. So, if you go with either of these, then please post a UOA so we can all see how it does.
I think I will keep track of oil UOA's from stock block FI engines, but the built engines are going to vary so much it's almost pointless to keep a record of them. If you get a UOA done, just post it here and we'll see how it looks.
I hope all of this is making some sense and answering your questions. Please, keep posting questions if you have them and hopefully people with the same thoughts and questions will see this sticky and have them answered as well.
Will
#136
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Thanks for the responce.
I guess right now, I have narrowed it down to two oils which you have suggested. I know that you said the M1 0w-40 has performed well in NA VQ's but I wonder how well it may perform in the hotter engine core of a turbocharged engine. However, I drive my Z pretty conservatively and only on occasion do I get into boost for more than a few seconds. I wonder if I would need an oil they may have heavier weight or extra additives.
What is the factor in regards to an oil holding-up to temperature before breaking down in it's protection. Obviously their is viscosity caused by friction but what about indirect temperature. Is that the 'aniline' point?
I guess right now, I have narrowed it down to two oils which you have suggested. I know that you said the M1 0w-40 has performed well in NA VQ's but I wonder how well it may perform in the hotter engine core of a turbocharged engine. However, I drive my Z pretty conservatively and only on occasion do I get into boost for more than a few seconds. I wonder if I would need an oil they may have heavier weight or extra additives.
What is the factor in regards to an oil holding-up to temperature before breaking down in it's protection. Obviously their is viscosity caused by friction but what about indirect temperature. Is that the 'aniline' point?
#137
Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
Thanks for the responce.
I guess right now, I have narrowed it down to two oils which you have suggested. I know that you said the M1 0w-40 has performed well in NA VQ's but I wonder how well it may perform in the hotter engine core of a turbocharged engine. However, I drive my Z pretty conservatively and only on occasion do I get into boost for more than a few seconds. I wonder if I would need an oil they may have heavier weight or extra additives.
What is the factor in regards to an oil holding-up to temperature before breaking down in it's protection. Obviously their is viscosity caused by friction but what about indirect temperature. Is that the 'aniline' point?
I guess right now, I have narrowed it down to two oils which you have suggested. I know that you said the M1 0w-40 has performed well in NA VQ's but I wonder how well it may perform in the hotter engine core of a turbocharged engine. However, I drive my Z pretty conservatively and only on occasion do I get into boost for more than a few seconds. I wonder if I would need an oil they may have heavier weight or extra additives.
What is the factor in regards to an oil holding-up to temperature before breaking down in it's protection. Obviously their is viscosity caused by friction but what about indirect temperature. Is that the 'aniline' point?
Will
#139
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Oil temp vs oil brand
Will:
Terrific thread - I am switching to M1 0W-40 on my next oil change (stock motor - twin turbo).
My oil is 210 F on the street with a peak at about 240 F.
What oil temperature should I be trying to maintain for engine longevity?
Any brand oil particularly suited to this temperature range?
Thanks
Terrific thread - I am switching to M1 0W-40 on my next oil change (stock motor - twin turbo).
My oil is 210 F on the street with a peak at about 240 F.
What oil temperature should I be trying to maintain for engine longevity?
Any brand oil particularly suited to this temperature range?
Thanks
#140
Originally Posted by zman2
Will:
Terrific thread - I am switching to M1 0W-40 on my next oil change (stock motor - twin turbo).
My oil is 210 F on the street with a peak at about 240 F.
What oil temperature should I be trying to maintain for engine longevity?
Any brand oil particularly suited to this temperature range?
Thanks
Terrific thread - I am switching to M1 0W-40 on my next oil change (stock motor - twin turbo).
My oil is 210 F on the street with a peak at about 240 F.
What oil temperature should I be trying to maintain for engine longevity?
Any brand oil particularly suited to this temperature range?
Thanks
I am running it in my stock engine to see how an HDMO oil performs in regular use compared to the Amsoil, Schaeffer's, GTX and M1 samples. I don't know if any of the benefits of this oil will outweigh the downsides. My mpg is a little worse with it over the M1 0W-40, and Shell states a slight increase in ash build-up in the combustion chamber will occur in a NA gasoline engine. And the high amount of ZDDP has been proven to kill catalytic converters. None of these are issues in a TT engine, but in a NA engine, I'm curious to see if the protection is good enough to justify these faults of an HDMO. We'll see soon enough.
Will