**** 4.083 Gears/Final Drive Installed****
#242
Z + Rear Seat
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St.Pete,FL
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ZLadie2000
^^ JB get those gears installed yet?
They should arrive via UPS tomorrow, but it looks like I'm going to have to wait until November 12th to get them installed at Lokey.
#244
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Originally Posted by Chasecbc
what about from rolls or highway pulls?
#245
I think what people are not understanding about gears is. It does not change your HP what it does is shorten each of your gears.
With stock gears say it takes X amount of time to wind out 3rd gear. You change that final drive gear out and now you have just shortened all of your gears. So you will run through the gear much faster. Thus getting to the meat of your powerband quicker. And in return make your car quicker.
Rough example:
Stock 3rd gear
111222333444555666777888999
shorter Final drive 3rd gear
112233445566778899
All 6 of you gears will react the same with the change of the final drive. So if your in 6th gear you will hit the meat of your powerband faster and thus make your car pull harder on the interstate. If you have stock gears and you are on the interstate you would drop it a gear for the same results.
Hope this helps
Todd
With stock gears say it takes X amount of time to wind out 3rd gear. You change that final drive gear out and now you have just shortened all of your gears. So you will run through the gear much faster. Thus getting to the meat of your powerband quicker. And in return make your car quicker.
Rough example:
Stock 3rd gear
111222333444555666777888999
shorter Final drive 3rd gear
112233445566778899
All 6 of you gears will react the same with the change of the final drive. So if your in 6th gear you will hit the meat of your powerband faster and thus make your car pull harder on the interstate. If you have stock gears and you are on the interstate you would drop it a gear for the same results.
Hope this helps
Todd
#249
Registered User
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was wondering what are the negatives with adding the 3.917 gear with a 350z that has a turbo? I was planning on getting the turbonetics kit and the gear will there be problem? Please help this final drive thing is pretty new to me.
#250
Registered User
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by aceman
I think what people are not understanding about gears is. It does not change your HP what it does is shorten each of your gears.
With stock gears say it takes X amount of time to wind out 3rd gear. You change that final drive gear out and now you have just shortened all of your gears. So you will run through the gear much faster. Thus getting to the meat of your powerband quicker. And in return make your car quicker.
Rough example:
Stock 3rd gear
111222333444555666777888999
shorter Final drive 3rd gear
112233445566778899
All 6 of you gears will react the same with the change of the final drive. So if your in 6th gear you will hit the meat of your powerband faster and thus make your car pull harder on the interstate. If you have stock gears and you are on the interstate you would drop it a gear for the same results.
Hope this helps
Todd
With stock gears say it takes X amount of time to wind out 3rd gear. You change that final drive gear out and now you have just shortened all of your gears. So you will run through the gear much faster. Thus getting to the meat of your powerband quicker. And in return make your car quicker.
Rough example:
Stock 3rd gear
111222333444555666777888999
shorter Final drive 3rd gear
112233445566778899
All 6 of you gears will react the same with the change of the final drive. So if your in 6th gear you will hit the meat of your powerband faster and thus make your car pull harder on the interstate. If you have stock gears and you are on the interstate you would drop it a gear for the same results.
Hope this helps
Todd
So if you are starting from a high speed roll (i.e. 70 MPH) it can be advantageous to have an OEM geared car because you can shift into the meat of the powerband (3rd gear) AND you will stay in the meat of the powerband longer. I beat this to death on s2ki. After 100 mph the gears no longer do anything.
Your example doesnt make sense because you might be getting out of third gear quicker but your getting out at a slower speed as well.
Last edited by 9kFever; 11-04-2007 at 01:54 PM.
#252
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
Since the "Nissan" final drive only comes in the 4.0 and the 3.7 for the $430 price, I will be choosing one of those.
Yes, I know some people are against nitrous while some are for it, but that argument is reserved for another discussion.
I am planning for a 100 shot plus tune just for some personal fun and a track day here and there.
my question is would it be better just to get the 3.7 and shorten my final drive a little or go ahead and get the 4.0 with nitrous. Pretty much im thinking that the nitrous acceleration may be to much for the 4.0?
thanks,
Jon
Yes, I know some people are against nitrous while some are for it, but that argument is reserved for another discussion.
I am planning for a 100 shot plus tune just for some personal fun and a track day here and there.
my question is would it be better just to get the 3.7 and shorten my final drive a little or go ahead and get the 4.0 with nitrous. Pretty much im thinking that the nitrous acceleration may be to much for the 4.0?
thanks,
Jon
#254
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems like running through the gears fater would actually slow you down in a quarter due to the extra shifting. My friend is willing to swap rears with me (3.9XX i don't remember) and I am really wanting to do it. If I understand correctly, a shorter final drive will say, get me to 130 faster than stock but a stocker will run me down around by 145ish due to longer gears?
#255
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Originally Posted by GA_VQ
It seems like running through the gears fater would actually slow you down in a quarter due to the extra shifting. My friend is willing to swap rears with me (3.9XX i don't remember) and I am really wanting to do it. If I understand correctly, a shorter final drive will say, get me to 130 faster than stock but a stocker will run me down around by 145ish due to longer gears?
IMHO, gears are something best coupled to an increased redline to maximize the benefits
#256
the burninator
iTrader: (11)
Originally Posted by 9kFever
Had a similar discussion on s2ki about gears. Remember also that at higher speeds with OEM gears the Z practically shifts into the Peak HP and stays there longer than aftermarket gears. With aftermarket gears your RPMs will be right at or above peak hp and will go out of peak hp quicker. This is why gears make less of a difference on the freeway and could actually make an oem geared car start pulling if all other things remain the same.
So if you are starting from a high speed roll (i.e. 70 MPH) it can be advantageous to have an OEM geared car because you can shift into the meat of the powerband (3rd gear) AND you will stay in the meat of the powerband longer. I beat this to death on s2ki. After 100 mph the gears no longer do anything.
Your example doesnt make sense because you might be getting out of third gear quicker but your getting out at a slower speed as well.
So if you are starting from a high speed roll (i.e. 70 MPH) it can be advantageous to have an OEM geared car because you can shift into the meat of the powerband (3rd gear) AND you will stay in the meat of the powerband longer. I beat this to death on s2ki. After 100 mph the gears no longer do anything.
Your example doesnt make sense because you might be getting out of third gear quicker but your getting out at a slower speed as well.
I disagree with a few things
The gearing having the most advantage is always going to vary from situation to situation or track to track.
The primary fun factor with shorter gearing is the lower gears give you more oomph and make the car "feel" more responsive and fun to drive
The shorter final drive "forces" the and and the car to be driven more aggressive because rpms rise faster and you shift sooner and usually more often than taller gearing. Even your top gear will have more response and be higher in the powerband when just cruising the highway at 60-80mph
it flips back and forth who would have the advantage all depending on what speed you start a race at and what speed you race up to
at 70mph, yes, the stock 3.5 FD would get the jump. but at higher speeds, the 4.083 could make up for that initial loss depending on what speed you race up to.
If you raced up to 120mph, the 3.5 would have the advantage both at launch and the end of the race peaking at high rpms in a lower gear than the 4.083 would end the race in
If you raced up to 130mph, the 4.083 FD would be at the higher rpms while the 3.5 is at lower rpms. This would make up for the 3.5 getting the initial jump at 70mph
Or what if the race started at 60mph? Then the 4.083 FD would get the jump and the 3.5 would be in a position where it had to catch up
If a 3.5 and 4.083 FD Z raced up to 160mph from 0, the 4.083 FD car would slaughter the 3.5. Both cars would shift 5 times, but the 4.083 FD car would reach 160 seconds before the 3.5 FD - probably (get this) 14% sooner
On another note, I have a 3.9 FD and then later added a vortech supercharger. I was assuming traction in 1st gear was going to be worthless no matter what because 1st gear is so short anyway - that I figured a shorter final drive would get me out of first gear faster and into 2nd where I could start getting traction and going WOT.
Had I went with a 3.3 FD and optimized first gear by possibly having traction in it, because it's so much shorter than the other gears (like a reverse exponential graph), when 2nd gear would kick in, it would feel really long and boring. Especially for a vortech where you don't want to be at low rpms very long if at all
In the future, I have custom gear ratios picked out that I want to use...not going to be cheap though
Last edited by sentry65; 11-05-2007 at 04:58 PM.
#258
the burninator
iTrader: (11)
Originally Posted by hasemanr
I was wondering what are the negatives with adding the 3.917 gear with a 350z that has a turbo? I was planning on getting the turbonetics kit and the gear will there be problem? Please help this final drive thing is pretty new to me.
turbo power already comes on so quick, giving you less time to react to throttle inputs
it will also give more opportunities for the turbo to lose its spooling with more shifting
since you'll be flying through gears faster, you won't be keeping the turbo fully spooled as long
gas mileage will also obviously be worse with the 3.9 too
IMO with a turbo, stay stock FD or go 3.3 after you reach 450-500whp, though it can depend on how good your tires are if the 3.5 or 3.3 is better
Last edited by sentry65; 11-05-2007 at 04:50 PM.
#259
the burninator
iTrader: (11)
Originally Posted by __jb
I have a similar problem in my G35 with stock gears.
I usually leave my VDC on and turn it off for spirited driving. Sometimes I forget to turn it off when I start my car... If I rev it up a bit and shift into second gear, the VDC activates the brakes when the tires slip a bit... So, when I'm actually trying to go a bit quicker to pass someone, I end up going slower because the VDC clamps the brakes.
I'm thinking about getting one of Kevin Pearson's VDC control modules to keep the VDC always off.
I usually leave my VDC on and turn it off for spirited driving. Sometimes I forget to turn it off when I start my car... If I rev it up a bit and shift into second gear, the VDC activates the brakes when the tires slip a bit... So, when I'm actually trying to go a bit quicker to pass someone, I end up going slower because the VDC clamps the brakes.
I'm thinking about getting one of Kevin Pearson's VDC control modules to keep the VDC always off.
Last edited by sentry65; 11-05-2007 at 04:51 PM.
#260
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sentry65
The gearing having the most advantage is always going to vary from situation to situation or track to track.
The primary fun factor with shorter gearing is the lower gears give you more oomph and make the car "feel" more responsive and fun to drive
The shorter final drive "forces" the and and the car to be driven more aggressive because rpms rise faster and you shift sooner and usually more often than taller gearing. Even your top gear will have more response and be higher in the powerband when just cruising the highway at 60-80mph
The primary fun factor with shorter gearing is the lower gears give you more oomph and make the car "feel" more responsive and fun to drive
The shorter final drive "forces" the and and the car to be driven more aggressive because rpms rise faster and you shift sooner and usually more often than taller gearing. Even your top gear will have more response and be higher in the powerband when just cruising the highway at 60-80mph
Originally Posted by sentry65
it flips back and forth who would have the advantage all depending on what speed you start a race at and what speed you race up to
at 70mph, yes, the stock 3.5 FD would get the jump. but at higher speeds, the 4.083 could make up for that initial loss depending on what speed you race up to.
If you raced up to 120mph, the 3.5 would have the advantage both at launch and the end of the race peaking at high rpms in a lower gear than the 4.083 would end the race in
If you raced up to 130mph, the 4.083 FD would be at the higher rpms while the 3.5 is at lower rpms. This would make up for the 3.5 getting the initial jump at 70mph
at 70mph, yes, the stock 3.5 FD would get the jump. but at higher speeds, the 4.083 could make up for that initial loss depending on what speed you race up to.
If you raced up to 120mph, the 3.5 would have the advantage both at launch and the end of the race peaking at high rpms in a lower gear than the 4.083 would end the race in
If you raced up to 130mph, the 4.083 FD would be at the higher rpms while the 3.5 is at lower rpms. This would make up for the 3.5 getting the initial jump at 70mph
This only holds true for 07 vs 07... if it's 07 vs 03-06, 07 has it hands down (given equal mods, so stock for stock but one has gears and the other doesn't) no matter what speed (primarly due to the wider powerband and higher redline).
Originally Posted by sentry65
Or what if the race started at 60mph? Then the 4.083 FD would get the jump and the 3.5 would be in a position where it had to catch up
Originally Posted by sentry65
If a 3.5 and 4.083 FD Z raced up to 160mph from 0, the 4.083 FD car would slaughter the 3.5. Both cars would shift 5 times, but the 4.083 FD car would reach 160 seconds before the 3.5 FD - probably (get this) 14% sooner