The problem with catch cans and the 350Z
06-01-2012, 11:40 PM
#82
i think i might know what your referring to as corrosive gasses. im going to make a educated guess here and say your referring to the fuel vapors in the blow by? if thats the case you need to quit learning from whoever your learning from, becuase while various fuels are corrosive they arnt going to eat through anything inside the crankcase, if yah want proof of that go find a carb on something in a junkyard and pull it apart, you will find no corrosion where the fuel has sat(and if its been there a couple months turned to varnish which is more corrosive then gasoline.) in fact the fuel areas will be the cleanest. it wont even damage the rubber seals, you can take a modern automotive seal and drop it in a bucket of methanol which is 5 times more corrosive then gasoline and it will be 2 to 3 years before you even start to see degradation. you can dump a metal part in a bucket of whatever fuel you want and 20 years from now there still wont be any corrosion or eating away of the part. the burnt fuel and air blowby is even less harmful to parts since its emissions gases and carbon, the emissions gases arnt corrosive at all they are asphyxiant'. the carbon could possibly be corrosive but your going to need combustion chamber like temps and at least a couple mm coated on something, it would be more dangerous to bearings where it could tighten them up but you will never develop enough to do any harm, the oil will gel before that can happen.
nothing here meant to insult yah, just trying to put a myth to rest im guessing this is something that originated with the youngest generation who have never dealt with carbs before and see corrosive on some things like fuels and think it will eat parts or something.
nothing here meant to insult yah, just trying to put a myth to rest im guessing this is something that originated with the youngest generation who have never dealt with carbs before and see corrosive on some things like fuels and think it will eat parts or something.
Last edited by jerryd87; 06-01-2012 at 11:42 PM.
06-02-2012, 03:37 AM
#83
Alright I'm just going to come out and say it. OP, stfu. You're going in circles and some of the things you're saying are wrong. You have some good points, but you're over thinking things.
I know a little bit about catch can systems (no guru), but seriously you're just cluster****ng this topic.
If a universal "can" isn't good enough, and you want baffles stick a $1 piece of steel wool in there. DONE.
Jeesus. Of all the topics catch can systems on this car get drawn out sooo far...
Ty Jerry. And binder.
*walks off muttering wtf's to self*
06-02-2012, 07:35 AM
#85
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm still just waiting to see what this new catch can looks like?
I have been looking at buying an ARC unit someone has for sale but would like to see what the unit looks like here without having to deal without the multiple pages of theoretical BS.
Final can done?
Mounted?
Pics?
I have been looking at buying an ARC unit someone has for sale but would like to see what the unit looks like here without having to deal without the multiple pages of theoretical BS.
Final can done?
Mounted?
Pics?
06-02-2012, 11:04 AM
#86
It is an inline oil separator for an air compressor. It holds pressure just fine. I cleaned my plenum about 2k track miles ago, and as of a few weeks ago, it was clean enough that I would eat off it (ok maybe not, but it had no oil residue from vapor, etc). It is also small and easy to mount (requiring less tubing).
The following users liked this post:
n_den (10-17-2016)
06-02-2012, 11:09 AM
#87
what corrosive gases? outside of blowby which dosnt need air going to it, it will exit fine on its own through the intake manifold or breather whichever setup you have. the only thing in there that is able to generate and gas is oil, and its only going to generate that if it foaming or aeration as some say, which is going to fry th engine from air being in the oil not any corrosive gases.
Quote from the Patent on the PCV:
Originally Posted by Patent Application #20100180872
Blow-by gases mainly consist of contaminants such as hydrocarbons (unburned fuel), carbon dioxide or water vapor, all of which are harmful to the engine crankcase. The quantity of blow-by gas in the crankcase can be several times that of the concentration of hydrocarbons in the intake manifold. Simply venting these gases to the atmosphere increases air pollution. Although, trapping the blow-by gases in the crankcase allows the contaminants to condense out of air and accumulate therein over time. Condensed contaminants form corrosive acids and sludge in the interior of the crankcase that dilutes the lubricating oil.
what gases exactly are you talking about? because the only thing in the engine that will corrode the engine is coolant which shouldnt be in anywhere but the coolant passages which dont see any part of the pcv system. think we are starting to get into old wives tales now(well mechanic version.) because if there where corrosive gases every race engine and numerous street vehicles would have problems, which even with google i cannot find any issues with engine corroding from "corrosive gases" inside the crank case.
I'm sorry, i was wrong, it's not gasses.
06-02-2012, 11:19 AM
#89
i think i might know what your referring to as corrosive gasses. im going to make a educated guess here and say your referring to the fuel vapors in the blow by? if thats the case you need to quit learning from whoever your learning from, becuase while various fuels are corrosive they arnt going to eat through anything inside the crankcase.....
Oddly, it's one i use for people these days who blame test pipes for *making* an exhaust smell :P They never grew up without cats.
06-02-2012, 11:23 AM
#90
Alright I'm just going to come out and say it. OP, stfu. You're going in circles and some of the things you're saying are wrong. You have some good points, but you're over thinking things.
I know a little bit about catch can systems (no guru), but seriously you're just cluster****ng this topic.
I know a little bit about catch can systems (no guru), but seriously you're just cluster****ng this topic.
Yeah, this isn't what i started the topic for, i'm advertising the fact i'm getting a proper catch can made for us 350 owners.
06-02-2012, 11:42 AM
#92
I know what I'm doing, thanks.
It is an inline oil separator for an air compressor. It holds pressure just fine. I cleaned my plenum about 2k track miles ago, and as of a few weeks ago, it was clean enough that I would eat off it (ok maybe not, but it had no oil residue from vapor, etc). It is also small and easy to mount (requiring less tubing).
It is an inline oil separator for an air compressor. It holds pressure just fine. I cleaned my plenum about 2k track miles ago, and as of a few weeks ago, it was clean enough that I would eat off it (ok maybe not, but it had no oil residue from vapor, etc). It is also small and easy to mount (requiring less tubing).
You're welcome, just and FYI, really
How much are the oil separators? i could have sworn they're usually just water separators, i remember many years ago someone found the oil one but they cost more?
06-02-2012, 12:49 PM
#93
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lubbock, Tx
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
op, first of all greatly i respect your effort on this endeavor. i have some concerns though after looking at the can. where is the intended mounting location? id like to see pics of the can mounted to see if the tubes are indeed angled in such a way that it produces a clean hookup. aesthetically, im not really all that crazy about it... especially compared to the boosted performance unit that mounts in a super clean location, drains back into the oil pan and requires no user action after installation. as for connections, i'd prefer an fittings, but what you have there isnt a deal breaker. internally, from what you have posted it looks like a win. in terms of theoretical performance, it appears to be a really good catch can. show us some post install pictures... my humble opinion could still change. i am in the market for a catch can or two...
06-02-2012, 12:55 PM
#94
The mounting location is on the power steering bracket, so very close to the PCV valve. I have all the mounting equipment but currently, the bracket is in the wrong place on the can 
Its near the top and needs to be near the middle.
The can does require emptying, it's not as fancy in that regards as the boosted performance. I have seen conflicting info about having oil recycle, i think it's a nice idea, but some say that it's sludgy crap that shouldn't go back in whilst others argue the opposite.
Either way, once i get this portion sorted out, the angles on the can point straight toward the PCV valve and just forward of there to fit into the engine cover gap that heads towards to the front of the plenum where the pipe goes.
I'm working with Saikou Michi to finish this off so people can just order straight from them if they want.
Its near the top and needs to be near the middle.The can does require emptying, it's not as fancy in that regards as the boosted performance. I have seen conflicting info about having oil recycle, i think it's a nice idea, but some say that it's sludgy crap that shouldn't go back in whilst others argue the opposite.
Either way, once i get this portion sorted out, the angles on the can point straight toward the PCV valve and just forward of there to fit into the engine cover gap that heads towards to the front of the plenum where the pipe goes.
I'm working with Saikou Michi to finish this off so people can just order straight from them if they want.
06-02-2012, 02:09 PM
#95
actually the 75 hp i was referring to is NA, nhra pro stock using windage tray and dry sump, its actually so effecient you will see a vaccuum in the crank case without it being hooked up to the intake. some of it is oil hung on the crank some of it is generated by the rotating assembly. we already covered why it was invented, emissions, the first system had NO way of sucking anything out, it was a rubber hose that ran from the valve cover to either behind the car or one of the fender wells. worked absolutly fine but it generated too much emissions. i know what the patent says but i can also roll a piece of paper into a tube, put a piece of tape on it and patent it as a rainbow generator, a patent dosnt mean ****. i am telling you FROM EXPERIENCE there is nothing inside the crankcase that will corrode the insides no gasses, and water vapor? that going to depend on humidity how much is in the air but everyone knows oil does not mix with water so that laughable your not going to see any of that inside the crankcase. fuel vapors like i said i will bet you $10000 right now that you can drop a crank into the automotive fuel of your choice and 20 years from now we will not see any degradation or corrosion on it, hell the fuel will even stop rust from forming.
the water yous see coming out of your exhuast pipe is, since i know that is going to be your next comment, isnt actually from combustion its from when the car has been running is turned off too cool down, the temperature differentials on the out flowing into the pipe when the car is turned off causes moisture in the air to flash vaporized on the hot pipe it then pools in mufflers and catalytic converters which people see as water coming out at the next startup. hell people who run water injection dont even see water coming out the exhuast or water in the oil at oil changes with vented can setups so your "this is what the patent says" argument is invalid.
you seems like at least a mildly intelligent person but at this point your believing what you want and ignoring facts and basing your arguement on what a manufacturer whom must meet rules and tell the epa what they want to hear says. you have admitted you do not have much experience yet are ignoring what many people with much much greater experience have told you so im not going to continue anymore people can make of the thread what they want ive countered everyone of your points and you just repeat yourself.
the water yous see coming out of your exhuast pipe is, since i know that is going to be your next comment, isnt actually from combustion its from when the car has been running is turned off too cool down, the temperature differentials on the out flowing into the pipe when the car is turned off causes moisture in the air to flash vaporized on the hot pipe it then pools in mufflers and catalytic converters which people see as water coming out at the next startup. hell people who run water injection dont even see water coming out the exhuast or water in the oil at oil changes with vented can setups so your "this is what the patent says" argument is invalid.
you seems like at least a mildly intelligent person but at this point your believing what you want and ignoring facts and basing your arguement on what a manufacturer whom must meet rules and tell the epa what they want to hear says. you have admitted you do not have much experience yet are ignoring what many people with much much greater experience have told you so im not going to continue anymore people can make of the thread what they want ive countered everyone of your points and you just repeat yourself.
This is an area i haven't looked into, but i do know the extreme cases you're looking at are well into boosted territory. Also, i don't see how the PCV system affects windage, from a quick lookup, it's al about oil getting hung up by the crank. It only has that kind of advantage at very high revs and power output.
If they exit just fine, why was the PCV system invented? don't say it's for emissions because the first PCV systems weren't emissions based.
Quote from the Patent on the PCV:
I'm sorry, i was wrong, it's not gasses.
If they exit just fine, why was the PCV system invented? don't say it's for emissions because the first PCV systems weren't emissions based.
Quote from the Patent on the PCV:
I'm sorry, i was wrong, it's not gasses.
06-02-2012, 04:13 PM
#96
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm still very interested.
Will wait on pictures of mounting system and then pics of unit installed.
Thanks!
Will wait on pictures of mounting system and then pics of unit installed.
Thanks!
The mounting location is on the power steering bracket, so very close to the PCV valve. I have all the mounting equipment but currently, the bracket is in the wrong place on the can Its near the top and needs to be near the middle.
The can does require emptying, it's not as fancy in that regards as the boosted performance. I have seen conflicting info about having oil recycle, i think it's a nice idea, but some say that it's sludgy crap that shouldn't go back in whilst others argue the opposite.
Either way, once i get this portion sorted out, the angles on the can point straight toward the PCV valve and just forward of there to fit into the engine cover gap that heads towards to the front of the plenum where the pipe goes.
I'm working with Saikou Michi to finish this off so people can just order straight from them if they want.
Its near the top and needs to be near the middle.The can does require emptying, it's not as fancy in that regards as the boosted performance. I have seen conflicting info about having oil recycle, i think it's a nice idea, but some say that it's sludgy crap that shouldn't go back in whilst others argue the opposite.
Either way, once i get this portion sorted out, the angles on the can point straight toward the PCV valve and just forward of there to fit into the engine cover gap that heads towards to the front of the plenum where the pipe goes.
I'm working with Saikou Michi to finish this off so people can just order straight from them if they want.
06-02-2012, 06:50 PM
#99
Catch cans should not be needed in our cars..other than the instance mentioned above. TURBO applications are another story...you can get more oil in the intake track/intercooler with positive pressure in the intake..AKA BOOST.
Good summary:
An oil catch can is used in turbo applications, or high-performance race applications where excessive blow-by (leakage past the piston rings) of air and fuel vapor occurs. This creates a positive pressure in the crankcase. Engine manufactures have placed a valve on the engine block which releases this pressure. This valve is known as a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve. During engine operation, blow-by gases, as well as oil mist from the rotating components of the engine, pass through the PCV valve and are routed back into the intake for the engine to burn off. However, some of the oil mist and other products settle along the engine intake and over time form a "gunk." The oil catch can collects the oil mist and condenses the fuel vapors while allowing "cleaner" gases to be passed back into the intake. Typically the blow-by gasses are passed through a wire mesh, which give the vapor droplets something to adhere to. Since the oil catch cans condense the vapor portion of the gasses, they will need to be drained periodically of all the oil, fuel and other contaminants
06-02-2012, 07:18 PM
#100
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oil catch would be useful with piston blow by caused by bad ring seal in 06 cars. Won't solve problem, but would help with excess oil in blow by in this particular instance.
Catch cans should not be needed in our cars..other than the instance mentioned above. TURBO applications are another story...you can get more oil in the intake track/intercooler with positive pressure in the intake..AKA BOOST.
Good summary:
An oil catch can is used in turbo applications, or high-performance race applications where excessive blow-by (leakage past the piston rings) of air and fuel vapor occurs. This creates a positive pressure in the crankcase. Engine manufactures have placed a valve on the engine block which releases this pressure. This valve is known as a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve. During engine operation, blow-by gases, as well as oil mist from the rotating components of the engine, pass through the PCV valve and are routed back into the intake for the engine to burn off. However, some of the oil mist and other products settle along the engine intake and over time form a "gunk." The oil catch can collects the oil mist and condenses the fuel vapors while allowing "cleaner" gases to be passed back into the intake. Typically the blow-by gasses are passed through a wire mesh, which give the vapor droplets something to adhere to. Since the oil catch cans condense the vapor portion of the gasses, they will need to be drained periodically of all the oil, fuel and other contaminants
Catch cans should not be needed in our cars..other than the instance mentioned above. TURBO applications are another story...you can get more oil in the intake track/intercooler with positive pressure in the intake..AKA BOOST.
Good summary:
An oil catch can is used in turbo applications, or high-performance race applications where excessive blow-by (leakage past the piston rings) of air and fuel vapor occurs. This creates a positive pressure in the crankcase. Engine manufactures have placed a valve on the engine block which releases this pressure. This valve is known as a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve. During engine operation, blow-by gases, as well as oil mist from the rotating components of the engine, pass through the PCV valve and are routed back into the intake for the engine to burn off. However, some of the oil mist and other products settle along the engine intake and over time form a "gunk." The oil catch can collects the oil mist and condenses the fuel vapors while allowing "cleaner" gases to be passed back into the intake. Typically the blow-by gasses are passed through a wire mesh, which give the vapor droplets something to adhere to. Since the oil catch cans condense the vapor portion of the gasses, they will need to be drained periodically of all the oil, fuel and other contaminants