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I want to get an assault rifle. I made my first pistol purchase about 6 weeks ago, and want to add to my collection. The purpose of the gun will be for self defense/just for fun target shooting/zombie attack/violent uprising. lol I already have tinfoil hat readily available.
I have shot both, and like both. I like reliability, accuracy, pray and spray ability, ease of cleaning, and ammo availability. I am stuck between the two - they both have advantages and disadvantages to me. My best friend has owned one of each, and ended up keeping his AK-47 - he says it is more fun than his AR was, but he is big on pray and spray - I enjoy equally that and accuracy.
The guns in question are:
AK 47 AMD 65 Hungarian Rifle
AK AMD 65, 762 X 39 ,semi auto rifle, these rare rifles feature a black finish, working side folder stock, forward & rear pistol grip , original chrome lined barrel with extended muzzle brake . They are original imported factory built Hungarian Rifles on a high quality Hungarian FEG receiver . Rifle ships with one hi cap 20 round mag and backed up by a 1 year warranty .
and
Del-ton 16" A2 DT-4 Rifle
This rifle has a M4 profile barrel, 1x9 twist, 6 positon M4 stock, CAR handguards with single heat shields, and A2 Flast Hider. The rifle also comes with a hard case, sling, 2 30rd mags and a buttstock cleaning kit.
I want to know your thoughts and opinions on what I am looking for in a gun relative to these two, especially if you have owned one or both.
OR if you think I am talking about one gun, but would be better suited for something else, I am open to suggestions about other guns!
Thanks!
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Somewhere between Summit Point and VIR
This time with a Twin Turbo Z32
I had the best of both worlds. I have one of the nicer Romanian WASR-10's that doesn't have the bent sights and the nicer furniture. I also had a Bushmaster M4A3 that I loved, but I ended up selling it because cash was tight. They are both extremely nice, and the AK is cheaper to shoot, yet primitive in some aspects, but the Bushmaster is a dream.
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What he said. ARs are a ***** to keep clean.... especially if you are running cheapo Russian ammo through it. I actually ditched my AR for an XCR that runs an AK type gas system. WAY EASIER to clean and more reliable. I also have an AK and it's fun, but I don't really care for the sights. You can run complete crap ammo through it all day long though.
My personal pros and cons
AK Pros: will eat up any ammo, relatively cheap, cheap mags, parts are easily found, easy to clean.
AK cons: sights, rattles a bit, no last shot bolt open, tactical reloads not as quick as AR, kind of ugly, accuracy can be tricky.. forget about making accurate hits past 300m.
AR Pros: sights, accessories, easy to handle, VERY accurate (I consistently hit 10/10 at the 500m line in the Marines) , last shot bolt open, drop free mags
AR cons: get's pretty dirty quickly, picky with ammo, charging handle in a goofy place
www.ar15.com has both AR and AK sections to browse.
For me the ergonomics of the AR make it the winner.
If you're running $800 worth of ammo though your rifle in a day and it worries you that it's getting dirty then spend 30 seconds and scrape the bolt or spend $600 and get a gas-rod operated AR upper. Any AR that is ammo sensitive is built wrong - likely an undersized "match" chamber or a mis-aligned gas tube vent under the front sight. I wouldn't have a rifle that won't function with any round picked up off the ground. There's no reason to put up with one either.
Each weapon fires a ballastically different round and I enjoy the terminal effects of of the .223 round and it's flat/fast path meaning less hold over, longer point-blank range, and less wind compensation at distance.
I am a bit biased. This picture is from a few years ago and my family has grown since.
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Super Black 2005 35th Anniversary
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What he said. ARs are a ***** to keep clean.... especially if you are running cheapo Russian ammo through it. I actually ditched my AR for an XCR that runs an AK type gas system. WAY EASIER to clean and more reliable. I also have an AK and it's fun, but I don't really care for the sights. You can run complete crap ammo through it all day long though.
My personal pros and cons
AK Pros: will eat up any ammo, relatively cheap, cheap mags, parts are easily found, easy to clean.
AK cons: sights, rattles a bit, no last shot bolt open, tactical reloads not as quick as AR, kind of ugly, accuracy can be tricky.. forget about making accurate hits past 300m.
AR Pros: sights, accessories, easy to handle, VERY accurate (I consistently hit 10/10 at the 500m line in the Marines) , last shot bolt open, drop free mags
AR cons: get's pretty dirty quickly, picky with ammo, charging handle in a goofy place
I agree with most of what you said, just like to add...
A.K.- Usually less expensive, Mags are about the same price as AR mags now, 7.62x39 is becoming increasingly hard to find
A.R.- Usually more expensive, .223 is slightly easier to find, tons of excessories and upgrades available compared to AK
*A.R. bonus round* You can buy upper recievers in .223, 6.8spc, .204 ruger, 5.7x28... where with an AK you're stuck with whatever calliber the gun is origionally in.
*A.R. bonus round* You can buy upper recievers in .223, 6.8spc, .204 ruger, 5.7x28... where with an AK you're stuck with whatever calliber the gun is origionally in.
You forgot about .22LR, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. The 5.45 ammo is still very cheap compared to .223 and 7.62x39.
This is why I got into the XCR. A simple 3 minute barrel and bolt change and I can shoot 7.62x39. My mentality with firearms is the same as with potato chips
You forgot about .22LR, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. The 5.45 ammo is still very cheap compared to .223 and 7.62x39.
This is why I got into the XCR. A simple 3 minute barrel and bolt change and I can shoot 7.62x39. My mentality with firearms is the same as with potato chips
I love the XCR, great choice. They're just hard as fcuk for us to get our hands on... Then again so is all other AR's. Calliber options FTMFW!!!
I love the XCR, great choice. They're just hard as fcuk for us to get our hands on... Then again so is all other AR's. Calliber options FTMFW!!!
I got pretty lucky with the XCR since I have an FFL. I ordered one about two weeks before the election and got mine inside of 10 days. I ordered one for a friend the week after the election and it took 3 months! I think the ETA for new orders now is 3-4 months.
None of the firearms you suggested are actually Assault Rifles. An Assault Rifle is a military pattern self-loading rifle that is fully automatic. Such firearms are almost identical to civilian firearms except that the civilian firearms are semi-automatic.
Perhaps you meant you wanted to get a "Military style semi-automatic rifle?" Even the term "Assault Weapon" is not accurate because there is no actual definition of an "Assault Weapon" as it can be anything from a Gatling Gun to a plastic furnished bolt-action rifle with a collapsible stock. The term "Assault Weapon" is a media created term to instill fear. Just like barrel shrouds (the shoulder thingy that goes up), these terms are all incorrect.
An M1A with wood stock is not an assault weapon, but if we change the wood stock to an M1A with a Sage EBR stock it because an "assault weapon." Clearly the function of the firearm has no bearing on it's classification of an "Assault Weapon".
These are the completely identical rifles (expect for barrel length). But because one has "scary military looking" furniture and the other is wood, one is classed as an "assault weapon" while the other is a traditional rifle.
Now to address your question:
AK's and variants are very good firearms. Certain manufacturers had better tolerances than others, and it is possible to get a decently accurate AK. It will never be as accurate as an AR however due to intrinsic design differences.
The ammunition for the AK (7.62x39) is very inexpensive and is the most abundant ammo caliber in the world. It also has very good stopping power below 200 meters.
Drawbacks are the location of the safety, the bolt hold open and the charging. Other than that it is a solid rifle. Just don't ever expect to get les than 2 MoA groupings.
AR's are very accurate rifles based upon the design of the bolt lock up. Certain manufacturers make better products than others due to manufacturing tolerances but they all should be able to do 2 MoA or less groupings. (Unless it's one of the really bad companies, such as the one that makes the carbon fiber lower).
The most awesome thing about AR's is the complete modular design of the rifle. AR's are the single most prevalent firearm in the US today in the hands of private citizens. AR parts and accessories dominate the after market parts and accessories market.
AR's are so versatile that you can literally make any type of firearm you want. Since the upper and lower are two completely different parts, it is easy to do caliber swaps by changing out the upper. So you could switch between .22lr, 9mm, 5.56, and 6.8 spc. all just by changing the upper receiver.
There is even a .308 version of the rifle known as the AR-10. It's more expensive but can fire the hefty .308 round.
One thing that makes the AR my favorite, is that I can build one myself from parts. I can choose which bolt, carrier and key to use, which upper receiver, which upper parts kit, which lower, which grip, which stock, which LPK, which style of rails which barrel, etc.
I can build and AR for less than $800 that will still be a tack driver, or I can spend $1800 to get one that will fire sub moa groups.
None of the firearms you suggested are actually Assault Rifles. An Assault Rifle is a military pattern self-loading rifle that is fully automatic. Such firearms are almost identical to civilian firearms except that the civilian firearms are semi-automatic.
Perhaps you meant you wanted to get a "Military style semi-automatic rifle?" Even the term "Assault Weapon" is not accurate because there is no actual definition of an "Assault Weapon" as it can be anything from a Gatling Gun to a plastic furnished bolt-action rifle with a collapsible stock. The term "Assault Weapon" is a media created term to instill fear. Just like barrel shrouds (the shoulder thingy that goes up), these terms are all incorrect.
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I get so tired of having to explain this to people. Thank goodness you did.
Another rifle for the OP to consider is the SKS, its easily modded, cheap and more acccurate than an AK
I had an Arsenal SLR-106F which is actually an AK chambered in 5.56. I did love it, the Bulgarian's are awesome AK's and the folding stock was tight enough to make you wonder if it folded at all. When folded it was very compact and could easily fit under a jacket easily. I sold it to fund an LWRC piston build. I had a vendetta against the DI AR at the time I guess. I ended up building a KISS DI AR myself, and honestly its my favorite one out of all 3 rifles mentioned. AK's are an ergonomical nightmare although this can be overcome with practice. Piston AR is a lot heavier than I thought it would be. Much heavier than my plain jane home build. Also if it does indeed break good luck getting a spare operating parts group. I also underestimated the reliability of the DI AR. As long as you buy decent stuff (ie Del-Ton) you shouldnt have a problem. I havent had problems even with Wolf, Ive abused the M-16's we had on the ship and they took it just fine after cases of ammo and salt crusted nastyness. How many people are going to shoot thousands upon thousands of rounds without cleaning in a short period of time? I found out the answer (not me) to that after I jumped in the hype unfortunately.
Enough people have pointed out the flaws of the AK but let me point out a few more in a slightly different direction. Logistically it is in a bad place, esp with this administration. Most of the AK's are put together with parts kits on US made receivers and a few other parts (9) to be 922 compliant but the bulk of the parts are from Eastern European countries. Also a bulk of the ammo comes from Russia or E. Europe. It isnt beyond the scope of possibility for BO to sign an EO banning imports and......poof there goes a good chunk of your (cheap) supply chain. Its happened before in the not too distant past. Not a really big problem right now, but if it goes down like that good luck, I remember the import and 94 bans and all the **** storm it caused. Unless you can afford to put back a pallet of ammo that is. The AR enjoys a huge advantage over the AK in that regard. In addition to the fact that it is issue to the mil so there will always be more production, refinements, aftermarket, etc.
So if you want something to bury with a case of ammo until the zombies get here, get an AK. If you want something to use and push your proficiency to the max with get an AR.
i'm surprised no one has mentioned the SIG 556 rifle. look in to that one.
Its too heavy, heavier even than my piston AR. While the new piston driven 5.56's are nice and nifty I dont really feel that they are worth the premium. After going that route myself Id much rather buy or build a KISS AR and use the rest of the money for ammo and/or a class.
i'm surprised no one has mentioned the SIG 556 rifle. look in to that one.
That's kind of in a different price range.
My vote goes to the AR, mostly for the same reasons already listed, and I just enjoy shooting the AR more if you're getting it just for target shooting
I want an assault rifle - AK or AR?
