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i have a friend that just got his G35 carjacked at gunpoint in Atlanta. listening to his story, i feel as if i need to have some kind of protection. i've never owned a gun before, but my father was formally a professional shooter so i'm familiar with firearms. plus it's really fun shooting
the question is what kind of gun should i buy? my price range is somewhere between $500 - $1000 and looking for something in the .45 ACP or .380 (PPK?).
or should i buy this instead and blow a carjacker's head off if they try the same stunt that they did on my friend?
or is the Desert Eagle a tad bit extreme?
Last edited by ElBombastico; 03-24-2004 at 07:28 AM.
I have a glock 36 its a .45 caliber and its only like 5.5 in long. Love the thing but I do not carry much. Cost about 1000. They are hard to find because the caliber is very large and the gun is very small.
Sig P22940 in bedroom, Sig Sauer P220 45 is duty weapon when off duty it is standard law enforcement issue here and is about 700.00 highly reccomend. Ruger GP 100 .357 in undisclosed location for self defense, Remington 870 shotgun in undisclosed location is also standard law enforcement issue here, also have highly modified Mossberg Model 500 under bed with heat vent on tube , new stock with fore grip and extra round holder for home defense. I keep 4 .4 ounce Mace cans in undisclosed locations and my back up knife is Smith and Wesson. I do not have any kids so have the liberty of not having as much worry as the average married couple in my city. Don't foget your body armor! Isn't life great?? I wear Point Blank www.pointblank.com
These are last defense stuff, I have batons etc and a dog and an alarm. If they get past them they are leaving feet first and if you cannot say the same don't buy a gun (for those on the fence) because they will take it and use it on you.
Here is my trunk when I go out lol J/K it's duty equipment photo was orignially taken as a joke.
.45 ACP, shoots like a dream and set me back $685 NIB. You can find it down to around $600 from online vendors, but then you still have to deal with transfer fees.
There's also a less expensive version with an aluminum frame and rolled carbon steel slide (the ST is milled stainless for both).
I have a Browning 9mm BDM double action that I love; they're OOP now, but readily available at gun shows (often with pre-Brady 15 round mags). Really sweet trigger pull, good safety features, and more accurate than I am.
As for what gun you should buy: I'd definitely steer clear of the Desert Eagle or any other recoil monster. At the ultra-close range of a car-jacking, you wouldn't have time to recover from the first shot if you missed or hit a non-vital area. That means .44 and .41 magnums are also probably a bad idea (there's a reason that militaries don't use those guns as sidearms - they're actually not that practical a weapon system), and even a 10mm is probably too much unless you shoot all the time (at least 1-2 times a week, religiously, putting at least 100 rounds downrange). The ammo for these beasts will also be expensive, which will keep you from practicing, which will diminish their usefulness further.
A .380 is on the other end of the scale. It's not useless, but it's also not a sure-stopper (not that there's really any such thing short of a shotgun). You can get a very small one if you plan to get a concealed carry permit (reasonably easy here in Georgia), so they're good for that.
If you plan to keep the gun in your glovebox, though (legal in Georgia, or so I've been told - NOT ADVICE TO ANYONE), you can use something a little bigger and more powerful. The 9mm and .45, while very different rounds, seem to be pretty comparable in actual performance (devotees of both rounds, particularly the .45 will say this is blasphemy, but it's true). Both have reasonably good punch, and both have managable recoil (the .45 has more, but it's still containable). Again, there's a reason these are the two calibers that western military forces use for sidearms - they just make good weapons. You should easily be able to pick up a VERY nice .45 or 9mm for your price range, especially if you go to a gun show.
If you're only going to use the gun to thwart carjackings (which means that the overwhelming probability is that you'll never use the gun), you should consider a revolver. While autos are very reliable these days, that can still jam. In a carkacing situation, there's no chance you'll be able to clear the jam in time; either whatever rounds you've already fired will have done the job, or you've lost. A revolver will only give you 6 shots (there are 5 shooters for greater concealability, too), but if one of these is a dud, you just pull the trigger again and you've got another shot. The chance of needing more than 6 rounds for a car-jacking scenario is basically non-existent. If you get a revolver, you can get a .357, which may be the best all-around fighting cartridge.
Another big issue to consider is the ammunition. If you're envisioning a car-jacking scenario, you need to be really concerned about over-penetration. Do not use full metal jacket/hardball ammo, or anything that might have armor-piercing tendencies (harder to find that stuff after Brady and other laws, but might still run across it at a show). You do not want to have a bullet come out the back of a badguy and kill an innocent bystander. Get hollow-points or some other expanding round that will stay in the person you shoot. Consider getting some Glasser safety slugs, which are frangible rounds. They break apart on hitting anything hard (developed for use inside airliners by air marshals and the like), but will penetrate flesh (and then fragment). There are wildly varying takes on their effectiveness, though, and good reasons to doubt that they'd be terribly effective on a doped-up 'jacker.
Realistically, though, there's virtually no chance you'll experience a car-jacking. Think hard about whether you want a gun in your house (especially if you have kids, or if they're frequent visitors) and/or in your car (one more thing to worry about having stolen, you'll have to actually use your valet key when you valet park, etc.) Also, keep in mind that it's far from clear that having a gun in a violent confrontation makes you safer. Unless I misread your post, your friend lost his car but was not hurt (or at least not killed). If he had pulled a gun, he could easily have lost both life and property. Bringing a gun (or even another gun) into a situation substantially ups the stakes. You'd better be skilled and a good decision-maker under intense pressure if you're going to press like that.
As a fellow Atlantan, can I inquire as to where the carjacking occurred?
Originally posted by Dave679 maker under intense pressure if you're going to press like that.
As a fellow Atlantan, can I inquire as to where the carjacking occurred?
Sorry for the long-@$$ post.
your right, the Deagle is wayyyy too big just to carry around. but i sure do love the .50 AE recoil (having shot one before)
i don't want a gun just for the sole purpose to protect me from carjackings, but i want to own a gun to shoot at ranges AND to also have a some sense of security. i know that guns won't solve problems when you have someone wanting your car with a gun in your face, but its nice to know that you'll be ready for whatever.
this is gun i was thinking about buying:
The Colt 1911 National Match .45 ACP. my father once owned this gun and i loved it. Accurate and the .45 ACP is one of my favorite calibers to shoot. What do you guys think of the Colt as my first gun?
The carjacking was on Memorial Dr. Near Ponce, In Decatur.
Last edited by ElBombastico; 03-24-2004 at 09:12 AM.
i am a glock man myself...i own a number of glocks and am about ready to purchase the slimline .45 (36) for Ohio's Concealed Carry...the cost is about $550, anything over $600 and you are just getting ripped in my opinion. I like glocks because they have 3 saftey's, all of which are directly linked to the trigger, thus I don't have to worry about flipping a switch, or that switch getting pulled down while unholstering...i will admit though that I am very partial to glocks and don't really care for many other guns.
I personally do not own a 9mm. My father owns a number of them, however I believe that anything under a .40 cal is not worth buying...most people that own the 9mm though, swear by them. My favorite round would probably be the .40 cal.
12secZ:
There's factory 8 rounders for the P220's now (the 220ST comes with them), and ACT-MAG/Novaks are good, too. Never seen a 10 rounder for the P220 (LEO or otherwise) other than the Pro-MAGs, which I've had enough bad luck with that it's range only (and you don't need to be LE for 10 rounders).
Dave679:
The revolver suggestion isn't bad, and you can even stick to .45 ACP with the S&W 625 (IIRC). But, also keep in mind you're probably going to be carrying a round in the pipe, and that won't jam. Also, with a good semi-auto, you'r probably looking at about 1 failure per 2k rounds from all causes, not just jams. Some of them (in a semi-auto with double strike capability) just require a second trigger pull. It's a matter of what you're comfortable with.
And I agree on the .380 - it's generally considered a marginal self defense round.
Elbombastico:
If you're mainly looking for a defense gun, I'd stick to the lower end of your price range and spend the rest on a GOOD self-defense/carry course.
Keep in mind, you can run into other stuff than carjacking. A bit back, IIRC, there was a string of rolling roadblock robberies on the interstates in Arizona or New Mexico. You know, where three cars box you in and start slowing down? Here you want penetration, if you're going to shoot at the side car - you going through the door, and OC spray is your friend here, too. Stick it out the window and the slipstream will take it right to the trailing car.
Oh, and definately keep whatever you get in a good holster that covers the trigger guard. You just need to look at what happened to the off duty LEO at the Wake Forest ACC game - shot himself in the butt from carrying his Glock without a holster.
My Sig's don't have any safeties, safeties get you killed but that is just me.
You are right, it's my P22940 that has the 10 round mag's.
I had the Pro Mag 8 rounds for my 220 and had one fail in an alley the bottom came off and another fail at the range (same thing.) Pro MAG should be sued I could have been killed.
What color are the new 8 round mags? My original 220 mags were black I bought two more and they are silver, I'm pretty sure they only hold 7 rounds I keep six in all my mags because that is how I practice at the range and how we do stress fire and qualifications (6 round bursts) so I do in real life what I have done at the range for over a decade because it has been proven you will do what you are trained to do. I keep one chambered and 6 in the mag and carry 4 mags.
As for the 1911 I would never carry a single action in fact law enforcement and armored transport here have banned them, others swer by them, I prefer double action for shoot don't shoot scenarios.
I couldve sworn it was illegal to carry a gun in your car? And if you do get jacked at gunpoint and you have a gat in the car, how are you going to reach for it when you have a gun pointed at you? In my opinion, its just not worth it, let the car go and let the insurance company figure out the rest.
__________________ topsecret2001 you are right and i am wrong
Originally posted by ElBombastico i have a friend that just got his G35 carjacked at gunpoint in Atlanta. listening to his story, i feel as if i need to have some kind of protection. i've never owned a gun before, but my father was formally a professional shooter so i'm familiar with firearms. plus it's really fun shooting
the question is what kind of gun should i buy? my price range is somewhere between $500 - $1000 and looking for something in the .45 ACP or .380 (PPK?).
or should i buy this instead and blow a carjacker's head off if they try the same stunt that they did on my friend?
or is the Desert Eagle a tad bit extreme?
I use the Walther PPK because its very small and easy to hide, its fairly accurate at 20 yards for a .380 that size, and its double action. In my opinion its a perfect weapon for protection. If you want accuracy go with a 9mm or bigger and make sure it has a good length on the barrel.
What state are you refering too and depends on the County too and CCW laws. For instance Placer County and El Dorado County 20 minutes East or WWest of downtown allow CCW's and no it is not illegal there.
In the heart of down town you better have a permit or you are going to jail. Wanna die or go to jail?
You can also transport weapons to and from the range or to work if applicable , your question is grey.
anyways, it occured on Memorial Dr. couple of blocks from Ponce de Leon. [/b]
D@mn, that's not far from where I live.
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i am a glock man myself...i own a number of glocks and am about ready to purchase the slimline .45 (36) for Ohio's Concealed Carry
saint01: You're either a Glock guy (or gal) or you're not. I'm not; the trigger pull feels very stage-ey to me, with lots of distinct steps in the pull. I have a hard enough time getting a decent pull without that stuff in there. It's one reason I prefer a pistol that has a traditional independent safety switch, rather that some "extra safe" trigger. But I'm in the minority, as most people who have shot them either like or love them.
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As for the 1911 I would never carry a single action in fact law enforcement and armored transport here have banned them, others swer by them, I prefer double action for shoot don't shoot scenarios.
12secz: I'm with you. ElBombastico, if the gun is single-action only, like a 1911, it means that your're either going to have to cock the weapon/rack the slide before you can shoot or carry the gun cocked with the safety on (called condition one). Some 1911 swear to the safety of condition one, but I am just not going to put a gun with a cocked hammer over a live round in a holster, glovebox, or bedside table. In the 'jacking scenario, merely getting to the gun (which, in Georgia, needs to be in the glove box or similarly inaccessible, unless you've got a concealed carry permit) is going to be tough enough; you aren't going to have time to open the glovebox, pull the gun from its holster, rack the slide, aim, and then fire all before the 'jacker can get one round into you. (Actually, you're not going to be able to the first and last two in time, either. If the guy's got a gun on you, you probably just need to let him have the car.)
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I couldve sworn it was illegal to carry a gun in your car?
Plain and simple, that varies by the state. Like almost all of the legal questions discussed on this forum. Despite what most media and know-it-alls would have you believe, the vast majority of laws telling you, as an individual citizen, can and can't do are STATE laws, not federal laws. (Blows me away to see folks on the boards from one state offering authoritative advice on speeding ticket issues like points on licenses, pleading nolo, hearing dates, etc. to someone in another state. Those things can, and often do, vary from state to state. The technicality that got your brother's friend's uncle's sister-in-law off may well not exist in another state.)
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And if you do get jacked at gunpoint and you have a gat in the car, how are you going to reach for it when you have a gun pointed at you?
Very good point. Fighting off a carjacking is a hairy proposition at best. If you can't drive out of it, you're going to have a very tough time shooting your way out of it. Plus, you really are risking hurting/killing an innocent bystander; putting aside the legal ramifications of that, do you want that on your conscience the rest of your life? I keep my gun in the house, and won't hesitate to use it on an intruder there. But my car is just a (prized) possession, and I'll turn it over rather than risk gunplay if that's possible.
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The revolver suggestion isn't bad, and you can even stick to .45 ACP with the S&W 625 (IIRC). But, also keep in mind you're probably going to be carrying a round in the pipe, and that won't jam. Also, with a good semi-auto, you'r probably looking at about 1 failure per 2k rounds from all causes, not just jams.
Yep, and those are figures that I'm comfortable with, as evinced by my choice of gun. But I use mine for home defense - or, rather, would use it that way. I've never "used" it, and I'm reasonably sure I never will. If mine jams in my house, I can step behind a wall (old solid plaster and masonry walls in my place) and cycle the action to clear it. No chance to do that in a car. And we are, after all, talking about odds far more astronomical when we worry about car-jackings, not withstanding ElBombastico's friend's poor experience.
Any Z owners also firearm owners?
hahahahahaha!
Good thread
