Potential engine problem....we're stumped
06-29-2005, 04:09 PM
#1
Potential engine problem....we're stumped
Okay, let me give a brief history of what's happened since I installed my turbo kit a couple months ago.
Installed kit, started the car up, and had a water leak. Boss said I HAD to get it out of his garage that day, or else
On the way home, noticed some smoke coming out when I decelerated; I just assumed it was the turbos burning out some of the residue from production. But I thought it was strange that it didn't do it all the time, just under decel.
On the drive home, water temp got pretty hot, but never pegged the "H" on the gauge. The highest I saw was a little more than halfway between the middle and "H". Turned on the heater full blast, baby'd it the whole drive home (appx 3.5 miles).
I got the car home, found the water leak and fixed it. Took it for a drive, boosted great, but still, the smoking persisted. Around this time I hear about other forum members kits smoking so I started commenting about mine doing the same. The problem never got any better after changing oil volume and further trimming the oil returns, so I scheduled an appt with GRD. I drove up to Chicago, about a ten hour drive. When I arrived there I had racked up around 1000 miles give or take a few since the install, and car was running great, just smoking some.
Day 1. Tuan put it on the dyno and found the boost was low; like 6-7 psi. He tuned it up to 9psi and told me to return the next day to do a boost leak check. When I got in the car to leave the first day, every time I let it rev down on its own, it died. Never once did it before. I should also mention that they installed my Crawford plenum before tuning. Oh, and they had to replace my BOV because the original one was so tight it wouldn't open AT ALL.
Day 2. Turns out there was no boost leaking anywhere. I ask if he could try to tune it so it doesn't die on me everytime, so he takes the car back and does some stuff on the laptop I assume, but still couldn't figure out why it was dying. It was a Saturday and no techs working that day, so we agree that I'd stay an extra few days and bring it back in on Monday so Earl could check it out.
As soon as I left, like literally in front of GRD, I got on it a little bit past half throttle, and I hear a loud BOOM, like a backfire, or the engine falling out from under my car.
I look in the rearview, and see nothing but massive amounts of James Bond smoke. But the car still had power, and I noticed no leaks. Now it smokes all the time, especially when under boost. Not just on decel like before. I immediately call Tuan back and tell him I was bringing it back on Sunday, and flying home, so they could have it all week to figure something out. They looked at it, and Earl kept asking, "did it overboost? did it go past 10psi?" I told him, "no, not that I ever saw. It just got hot once."
I just got off the phone with Earl, and he is 98% sure the problem is in the engine. I'm pretty convinced as well. But he said that there's the slim possibility that it's in one of the turbos. I asked if they did a compression test on the cylinders and they seemed reluctant to perform the test for some reason, saying that it wouldn't be able to tell me anything. Earl also mentioned that the reason it's dying is because the o2 sensors are getting soaked with oil. Yikes!
What do you guys think could've happened? Broken ring? Ringland? Cracked piston even?
Installed kit, started the car up, and had a water leak. Boss said I HAD to get it out of his garage that day, or else
On the way home, noticed some smoke coming out when I decelerated; I just assumed it was the turbos burning out some of the residue from production. But I thought it was strange that it didn't do it all the time, just under decel.On the drive home, water temp got pretty hot, but never pegged the "H" on the gauge. The highest I saw was a little more than halfway between the middle and "H". Turned on the heater full blast, baby'd it the whole drive home (appx 3.5 miles).
I got the car home, found the water leak and fixed it. Took it for a drive, boosted great, but still, the smoking persisted. Around this time I hear about other forum members kits smoking so I started commenting about mine doing the same. The problem never got any better after changing oil volume and further trimming the oil returns, so I scheduled an appt with GRD. I drove up to Chicago, about a ten hour drive. When I arrived there I had racked up around 1000 miles give or take a few since the install, and car was running great, just smoking some.
Day 1. Tuan put it on the dyno and found the boost was low; like 6-7 psi. He tuned it up to 9psi and told me to return the next day to do a boost leak check. When I got in the car to leave the first day, every time I let it rev down on its own, it died. Never once did it before. I should also mention that they installed my Crawford plenum before tuning. Oh, and they had to replace my BOV because the original one was so tight it wouldn't open AT ALL.
Day 2. Turns out there was no boost leaking anywhere. I ask if he could try to tune it so it doesn't die on me everytime, so he takes the car back and does some stuff on the laptop I assume, but still couldn't figure out why it was dying. It was a Saturday and no techs working that day, so we agree that I'd stay an extra few days and bring it back in on Monday so Earl could check it out.
As soon as I left, like literally in front of GRD, I got on it a little bit past half throttle, and I hear a loud BOOM, like a backfire, or the engine falling out from under my car.
I look in the rearview, and see nothing but massive amounts of James Bond smoke. But the car still had power, and I noticed no leaks. Now it smokes all the time, especially when under boost. Not just on decel like before. I immediately call Tuan back and tell him I was bringing it back on Sunday, and flying home, so they could have it all week to figure something out. They looked at it, and Earl kept asking, "did it overboost? did it go past 10psi?" I told him, "no, not that I ever saw. It just got hot once."I just got off the phone with Earl, and he is 98% sure the problem is in the engine. I'm pretty convinced as well. But he said that there's the slim possibility that it's in one of the turbos. I asked if they did a compression test on the cylinders and they seemed reluctant to perform the test for some reason, saying that it wouldn't be able to tell me anything. Earl also mentioned that the reason it's dying is because the o2 sensors are getting soaked with oil. Yikes!
What do you guys think could've happened? Broken ring? Ringland? Cracked piston even?
Last edited by ccartwright; 06-29-2005 at 04:18 PM.
06-29-2005, 05:24 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by ccartwright
I haven't posted there, mainly because people on this board are much more knowledgable and Peter will just say I installed it incorrectly.
06-29-2005, 05:43 PM
#7
Originally Posted by ccartwright
I haven't posted there, mainly because Peter will just say I installed it incorrectly.
I feel for you. that situaton sucks. With the coolant situation, it very well could be the install. I hate to say that since I did my own install and am having some minor smoke on decel.
GRD is a great place to have your car in your situation. they will figure things out for you.
Hope things work out
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06-29-2005, 05:46 PM
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Well I have to call BS on the overheating causing this to go down. My cars thermostat died last month and I had to baby mine home. It got way hotter then yours. Matter of fact it pegged the temp gauge even with the heater on (damn thermostat wouldn't open) somehow I have no smoking issue and my car hasn't gone boom...
06-29-2005, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tonio
MIA or ccartwright, do you know what your EGT's were?
06-29-2005, 06:01 PM
#14
Originally Posted by tonio
So o2 sensors soaked with oil causes the car to cut off? Thats a first..
that is VERY common. If the oil soaked the o2 sensors, they could have not been reading properly. As a result the car has a big time problem sending correct amounts of fuel and will have a big time loppy idle and cause stalling.
06-30-2005, 08:45 AM
#16
well i could understand if the o2 sensors were soaked how it could do that, but it would have to be alot! i am very surprised they said doing a compression check would not tell you anything, when they admitted it was prolly a problem with your motor. when you hear kerchunks and bamblooyies it is never good and veryu rarely do you hear that noise and not have a major failure. sounds to me it could have detonated. so a comp check would let you know that.
also, was the motor stock or rebuilt before the install? deceleration creates a ton of vacuum in the cylinder itself and a broken ringland or not properly sealed rings or umbrella seals on the valves could suck in oil to the cylinder. just trying to give more ideas on what may be going on. but i would start with the comp check first for sure.
also, was the motor stock or rebuilt before the install? deceleration creates a ton of vacuum in the cylinder itself and a broken ringland or not properly sealed rings or umbrella seals on the valves could suck in oil to the cylinder. just trying to give more ideas on what may be going on. but i would start with the comp check first for sure.
06-30-2005, 12:37 PM
#18
Originally Posted by ccartwright
I haven't posted there, mainly because Peter will just say I installed it incorrectly.
Sorry...I had to chuckle when I read this. Chris and I have talked on the phone at length about this issue. GRD said the install was very nicely done, so I doubt its installer error.
I am also curious as to GRD's objection against doing a compression test. It tells you nearly EVERYTHING about the condition of the motor, and it takes less than 30mins to complete. Sure, its not 100%, but if one or two cylinders have zero or minimal compression, the motor needs to be taken out and torn down anyways...even if its not a piston, per se.
A little bit of overheating with no load wont damage your motor.....so you can rule out overheating...at least any overheating that you did.
Good luck...your Arias Extreme Duty pistons are on the way.
06-30-2005, 01:32 PM
#20
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So will this be the 1st APS TT blown motor? (i'm not in any way insinuating that it is directly related to the APS TT)
BTW, sorry to hear about your troubles. Like everyone says though, now's the chance to build it bigger and better!
BTW, sorry to hear about your troubles. Like everyone says though, now's the chance to build it bigger and better!