BRS0903

I went to go check out the 350z today at the local Nissan dealership. Needless to say, the car is a head turner!! Ok, here's the deal..I wonna turbocharge the car some time after I get it. How much power do you think this car can handle on stock internals? I was thinking a stock NA supra has 220 horsepower, but a turbocharged Supra has 320 horsepower. If a stock NA 350z has 287 horsepower, how much do you think it can put out with forced induction? There is already a race ready 350z available from Nissan for $75k that has a 450 horsepower NA engine. I think the race ready Z is 3.8 litres as opposed to 3.5. So, what is the VQ series capable of?

SpyVO

On stock guts, I'd guesstimate about 50 extra hp, give or take 10.

One a fully prepped motor though, you're talking a WHOLE lot more. I know it's comparing apples to tacos, but the Jaguar XJ220 is a twin turbo 24-valve 3.5 liter V6. Curb weight was 3025 lbs.


Engine: XJ220 rear engine Configuration DOHC Twin Turbo V6 with 4 Valves /Cylinder

Displacement: 3498 cc
Bore X Stroke: 94.0 mm X 84.0 mm
Compression Ratio: 8.3:1
Power: 542.0 bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 475.0 ft lbs @ 4500 rpm
Performance
Top Speed: 210-215 mph
0 - 60 mph: 3.8 seconds
0 - 100 mph: 7.9 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.7 seconds at 125 mph

But again, keep in mind: apples to tacos.

ares

iTrader: (2)

right now greddy has 350hp I think, or 345. thing is, no ones positive if thats crank or wheel hp. if its crank, then you have about 60hp, if its wheel, then over 100hp. and their not done, their goal is for 400hp. all of this is on stock internals, Id say 400hp on stock internals is what we can get. remember the supra handled way more than 320hp on stock internals, but that was a invincible engine, in a good and bad way engines have moved foward, aluminum open head blocks that are lighter, but not quite as strong.

LPEdave

I may have been under a rock. Can you supply a link to this?

Dave

SpyVO

There's a difference between stock internals on a turbocharged engine and on an N/A engine. Supras can take up to 800 hp (I've heard) on stock internals, not because it's invincible, but because it was designed from the get-go to have a LOT of boost blown into it. You can't just take the turbo equipment off a turbo Supra and bolt it to an N/A Supra and expect to get the same results. That goes for just about ANY turbo motor, be it a SAAB Turbo, or a Ford 2.3 Turbo, a Mitsubishi 2.0 Turbo or a Buick 3.8 Turbo. On the flip side, when you take the turbo off of a turbocharged car, it doesn't make as much power as the N/A version of the motor due to the lower compression.

The steps you'd take to make a GOOD N/A motor are counterproductive to making a good boosted motor. The Z motor was designed as a strong N/A motor, and without swapping pistons, they're just making a REALLY expensive bolt-on of questionable worth. If you take the time and do it right, then you'll have a real hellion on your hands. Take a look at Buick Grand Nationals. Probably heavier than a Z, has a turbocharged 3.8 liter TWO VALVE V6, and they'll mop the floor with LS1's with technology from 1987 and a few mods. So is a rebuild worth it now?

That's why if I were in the position to turbocharge a Z, I would buy a kit like that, get a stock shortblock and rebuild it with good pistons and strong guts. I'd swap it out when the time came, to minimize downtime, and then turn up the boost a whole lot more than you would with the regular bolt-on kit. They put this motor in a lot of stuff, don't they? I know the Maxima has a FWD version, but could it be used? If so, then it shouldn't be too tough to get one to build up.

The people who are making twin-turbo kits for Z's know who they're selling to. They're selling to people who want to go fast and don't want to get their hands dirty doing it. That's why they make bolt-on kits. Otherwise, you HAVE TO build up a motor for it, and in this market, they'd lose the sale. The nature of the bolt on kit is what limits the potential.

BRS0903

Hey LPEDave, a picture of the factory spec racing 350z is underneath. Check it out!

Some specs I do know of are
3.8 litre V6 450 horsepower engine
$75,000.00, doesn't include tax

available to race teams anywhere US and overseas

LPEdave

Interesting, that's pretty nice. I wonder what class folks will race this in? By comparison, you can get a Panoz Esparante GTS for about $55-60K, that has a 385hp Ford engine, and weighs about 2700lbs. Similarly track-ready as this looks like. I've been on the track with those, and with a good driver they're pretty quick.

Thanks
Dave

integrate

The Supra motor was originally a Diesel motor, so that's why it can handle so much power.

articfury

Shouldn't this be in the Modifications Forum?

BRS,

No one knows the answer to this question. Like Ares said, most people are guessing 400whp. This subject has been discussed more than a few times. Do a search.

Spy,

As Ares said, GReddy is aiming at 400whp with their full kit. I think most people would understand that if they want more power than that, they are going to have to build up the engine. How are you determining the worth of these bolt ons? I for one don't mind getting dirty, but if I can make some pretty serious power without having to do so, I am going to go that route.

Dave,

Unless something has changed since the last time this was discussed, that car is not an actual race car. It is just a mockup. Second, Nissan is not actually selling a race version of the car. They did show a 450hp motor at the Tokyo Auto Salon, which is a race motor. There is actually a very long thread about this in the Modification Forum.

JD

JD

r34 racer

iTrader: (1)

They are selling that car, but it goes for 200-300k, not 75k

BRS0903

Actually I am right, it does go for $75,000.00. Read your Road & Track magazine. That is where I got my first source and where I heard such a race car actually existed.

weyrdlojyk

In the next issue of Road and Track, I believe they retracted thier story about that being 75 grand.

SpyVO

With such high compression, you can not get the max potential out of an engine through turbocharging it, unless you use a different fuel. That being said, I will admit that I assumed the kit would be expensive (not too big of an assumption) and the gain would not be that substantial. Will they get to 400 hp? Probably, but I'd bet that it'll take something extra, beyond just intercooling. On pump gas, maybe a liquid to air intercooler or water/alcohol injection.

I think I may just be cheap. If I dumped $4000 or so into a turbo kit, I'd hope that it added more than 120 hp or so. To dump that kind of money into a car and have it make as much power as a stock Z06 (which is lighter than a Z) doesn't seem like a great deal. The total may cost less, but what if you compared it to a new Cobra? Heck I'm too cheap for those too.

Getting back on topic... I'm not trying to compare the Z to other cars. That's been done. MY OPINION is that the amount of money spent on a bolt on turbo kit could be better spent elsewhere. That's all.

McDan

Also remember any turbo car running big boost is also running very high octance gas. Turbocharging a 350Z will not give huge results unless you lower the compression, run race gas, or run alcohol injection.

On my Supra, I was only able to run about 15psi on 92 octane without engine knock, but could easily run 20 psi on 97+ octane or with alcohol injection. The horsepower difference was approx 340 before and 388 after.

Dan

damcgee

iTrader: (1)

I think the VQ35 could handle about 8-10 pounds of boost reliably, especially with an intercooler.
Consider this, the guys on the S2Ki forums are turbo'ing their S2000's, which have an 11:1 compression ratio (versus the 350Z's 10.3:1) and they are running around 7 usually. Some are running more, though I question the wisdom of it.

Hecash in particular has driven his comptech supercharged S2000 45,000 miles so far with NO problems. I believe he is running 7 lbs of boost. For me, I live in the midwest, and we get 93 octane. The Z is designed to run on 91. So I figure I could easily get 10 lbs of boost with NO problem, probably 12 with a decent intercooler set up.

BRS0903

Oh yeah? What page, what article? Please prove me wrong. I thought I was very thorough.

weyrdlojyk

It amazes me the attitude that people give off when someone tries to politely correct someone giving mis-information. I am at work right now, and do not have access to the article in front of me, but I was able to find a link on Road & Track's website for your reading pleasure, if that will do for now. I hope this helps you realize that not everyone is out to be an A$$ like yourself.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/news/amp...?ArticleID=380

It was only a matter of time until Nissan got back into big-time racing. The company had no choice but to pull most of its racing programs when it was experiencing hard financial times a few years ago, but now that its fortunes have turned, Nissan is ready to dive in headfirst.
With the official introduction of the 350Z in Japan last month (called the Fairlady there), Nissan showed a GT race version of the car. Called the Z33GT racer, this car could lead the company back into the 24 Hours of Le Mans next year where it would go head-to-head with the Porsche GT3 RS in the GT class. If Nissan decides to build it, the Z33GT could be made available to privateers around the world, at a cost of around $250,000; if it happens, don’t be surprised to see the Z33GT racing stateside in series such as the American Le Mans Series (ALMS) or the Rolex Sports Car series.
The Z33GT is a serious machine, with all the racing essentials in place, including a rollcage, heavy-duty brakes and a giant carbon-fiber rear wing. It tips the scales at a lean 2420 lb. The engine has been bored to 3.6 liters, resulting in a huge bump in horsepower. Sources say it cranks out 450 bhp. Nissan has been itching to get back to road racing, and now that it can without worrying about money and politics, look for this car to make a huge impact in GT racing next year.

Zthirtythree

i entirely agree.

on another point, it is useless to speculate how many psi of compression, or hp a motor can handle on stock components. every motor is designed differently. take a Skyline GT-R for example, or a Supra, these motors came with "280hp" to meet the well known agreement in Japan to not exceed this limit. in reality these motors were built for possibly three times that power, and then detuned to meet the regulation. this way when you buy a Skyline or Supra you can easily bolt on more power.

but how can you specualte the tolerance of a VQ35? you can't not unless you are an engineer at Nissan, or you have already blown one up.

keep in mind the Z33 was designed as a roadrace vehicle, not a dragster or a top-speed missile(skyline). with this in mind, NA motors are usally preffered for roadracing. sure, maybe your VQ35 can handle 10 pounds of boost, but is it going to make your z33 a better car? i doubt it.

BRS0903

Ok, I stand to be corrected..I can admit when I am wrong, I just wanted to see the information. Now, I was not trying to be an a$$, that was not my intent or attitude. You must be stupid or something insulting people you don't even know. I was going on the original article that I read from Road & Track, JERK!!