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Hi guys, i want to buy s/c for my car, but i noticed that most people buy Votrech s/c, i'm considering Procharger, i think it's better, but why do people buy Vortech instead of Procharger??? and whats the best s/c out there?? what's the difference between Vortech and Procharger ??
The reason most ended up getting the Vortech over the ATI SC . Is Vortech comes with a EMU . If you add that to the ATI and a fuel system , it should out perform Vortech
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i've heard some people say the vortech is quieter than the procharger because the vortech is a larger diameter blower, though it doesn't push the air as fast as the procharger. The videos I've seen of them trying to get the car on the dyno - it's just nothing but wine wine wine. People have said it's so loud you can hear the whine 2 miles away when their friend's ATI car got on the highway. The vortech blower is quieter by design, but I think if you upgraded to the T-trim blower it's as loud as the ATI - (I think, I don't run a T-trim) If you run the T-trim, I've heard from Booger that you lose the BOV sound that comes with the vortech.
I've read by two people who have heard both. One said the vortech was way quieter. The other said they were about the same and maybe the ATI was a hair quieter
the tuner kit for the vortech costs less than the procharger by like $1400
There's lots of online support for the vortech. It's easier to change the oil in one shot instead of changing two sets of oil. I think the ATI system has less parasitic loss with its oil system. By monitoring the engine oil temp though, you can monitor both the engine oil and the oil feeding the vortech. An APS oil pan gives you more oil capability and cooling as well as makes hooking an oil line up to the oil pan a breeze.
the BOV on the vortech is awesome sounding. However for normal driving, I don't like the constant air coming out of it at low volume. The ATI has no BOV sound at all hardly, but doesn't have a lower volume pssssshh constantly coming out of the BOV when cruising. As soon as you get on the gas just a little, the air stops coming out of the BOV and goes into the engine. The ATI has a BOV too, but not near as loud or aggressive sounding.
IMO the ATI has a more pleasing frequency with how the blower sounds when spooled up - around 6k hz vs the vortech's 1k hz.
The intercooler seems even smaller than vortech and it might be slightly off centered. Some people have upgraded the vortech's intercooler with good results.
There are some people working with vortech right now to make BIG hp with the vortech. Vortech might release either a new kit, or some sorta suppliment kit to allow bigger power to happen - probably awhile from now and only if they go thru with it.
I like the none-slip belt design of the procharger and how the belt is nice and thick and has teeth and won't have to worry about stretching. I also like the CAI built in. The belt isn't as long so you don't lose as much power turning a longer belt
Vortech offers bigger blowers like the T-trim. I'm not sure if the procharger does or not, but it has some more headroom to spin faster with smaller pullies
I figure that with all the online support for vortech there will be more of a possability for future upgrades - like Booger was working on making a better belt design that a company would manufacturer. Also it's been proven by like 5 people now that 450+whp is very very possible. I only know of one guy with a procharger pushing 14psi who's really going for big power. I'd guess for every 1 procharger, there's 7-8 vortech's. Someone also made a single piece MAF tube for the vortech instead of bolting the stock one to two small pipes. Many people have made CAI's for the vortech. I think I heard that vortech said doing it can lower it down by 1 PSI - not sure if there's truth to that, but the procharger and turbonetics seem to do ok drawing in colder air
I'm not a big fan of the one big long belt that doesn't have teeth going across the belt - and the stretching of the belt with the vortech. Using a Gates belt I guess helps and it costs less to replace than replacing 2 belts like on the procharger, but still. I hope a new belt design might be developed someday for the vortech. I think the vortech tends to rattle more with how the belt setup is, but if you raise the idle that helps a lot to kill it off.
If I can just raise my idle another 100-200 rpms, I think I'd be very accepting of how the belts sound at idle I have it set to about 950-1000 rpms right now and it only gets annoying when the car has been running awhile and you park next to a wall or another car and can hear some minor rattling echoing off the walls. I think the vortech is slightly more wobbly sounding than the ATI, from the videos anyway. Though raising the idle seems to remove any wobbling sound. Some of the vortech videos from Backagain he was saying he was making more noise back then than he is now at idle
The stock ATI piggyback delivers fuel in stages by rpm. Meaning it's basically tuned every 1000 rpms or whatever. So going thru the powerband you can feel the computer step things up in chunks every 1000 rpms or whatever. Obviously that sucks and you're better off getting your own piggyback to get smoother control with tuning.
I guess I'd tend to say if you're going for really big power, the ATI might be the way to go and I'm actually kinda torn about wishing I now went with the ATI instead of the vortech, but oh well. It was hard to justify another $1400 when my goal was 400-440whp regardless of what kit I chose. I'm making actually more power than I expected to be making with the vortech - 450whp or so. I figure if I ever need over 500whp, I can just sell the vortech and get an APS TT. I think you CAN get a little over 500whp with a 2.62 pulley (no one is running one yet that I know of) and upgrade to the T-trim blower, but then you have to worry about the belts slipping. It'll become even more crucial to get the belt tightness just right. When I get my new 550 injectors in and can actually drive to redline, I think my setup is plenty good to be pretty fast.
I went with the vortech because people were already getting pretty nice results with 450+whp and I could consult with them if needed. It wasn't as expensive as the ATI. The blower is supposed to be quieter than the ATI. I already had the APS oil pan to with a tap already in it. I already had my idle raised because of my JWT cams and was going to use the ATS clutch so raising it to 1000-1200 would make that clutch easier to drive anyway so that'd cancel out any vortech idle sounds. I love the BOV when shifting hard. And I like the pretty decent online support of everyone who's using the kit.
I think between the two companies, they'd both go out of their way to make you happy as far as repairing blowers etc. so that isn't so much of an issue to me, though vortech does probably have more going on with the Z than ATI just because of the sheer number of Z kits they've sold vs ATI. I still think ATI has great support from the people who've delt with them
I haven't heard if the procharger fits the 05 or 06 rev up engine models, but I know vortech is working on it and is expecting to be done sometime this summer with the revised kit
no idea, but those are actually 2 different silverstone G's with slightly different but similar setups in those videos and who are racing. One seems stronger than the other though. Also one has a slight air leak whistle that the other one (I think the faster one) doesn't have
Senty....i am sorry to ask this again..but is the problem with the vortech not fitting the rev up motors physically or tuning wise...?
so if i were to purchase a vortech tuner..and a piggy back of some sort...would it work or will the blower physically not fit...
(*confused*)
it's a fitting issue because the bracket won't fit the new shape of the rev up engine's front
It's probably a boost issue too since the rev up engine goes to 7100 - higher than 6600 rpms, so the vortech will make more boost at 7100 then 6600 - though I suspect the rev up engine can handle it
any idea why they are dynoing the procharged redline Z in 3rd gear, sounds like 3rd to me that is. 4th gear is a much longer gear even on a dyno. even with almost 400 hp it should take longer to get to redline.
I went with the ATI. Its been a pain. It would be easiest if you just got the stock FMU that ATI sends with the kit and then get some sort of box to control the timing. I went with the GReddy eManage Ultimate which was a pain in itself. Theres not too much to add after Sentry... the only thing I'll reenforce is the loudness... your buddies WILL be able to hear you the second you get a block away. The sound seems to be the loudest at just above idle [parking lots], 40mph [auto, 5th gear, right around 2000rpms], and 80mph on the highway is a REALLY high pitched noise... similar to on movies with two swords hit and make the *CHING* sound except its constant. People with their windows down will definately get annoyed at you and once you get on it the sucking and the whine are so overpowering you'll never hear your engine.....
Turbonetics single turbo is so much better, why would you even waste your time.
Just messing, i have been curious about this for a while too. However recently with the crazy gas prices have pretty much ruled out FI on my daily driver. How is your gas mileage? i get about 13-14 mpg city with my current NA set up.
yeah I've heard similar things about the ATI with how loud the whine is and that you really can't hear the engine so much anymore unless you have test pipes or something. That was one of the things that swayed me to the vortech.
as for the turbonetics kit, I like it much better than the APS ST kit. I've heard the APS kit has some fitmet issues that their TT doesn't have. I'm not crazy about using an ECU flash so emanage ultimate or utec would have been my choice. I like how the turbo is divorced from the header to help with heat
I thought about it seriously, but I didn't want to have to make the choice of getting the test pipe version or cat version then later regret my choice. I didn't want to get a different exhaust or molest my current exhaust setup to fit. I didn't want to have to ditch my 3.9 final drive. I have crawford headers and I like them a lot and have heard mixed opinions about headers with the ST systems - they they give you more lag, or they reduce some low/mid range power, and I still wasn't 100% sure at the time if the crawfords would even work with the TN kit. I was thinking even with the huge tq the kit produces, that it might be more than what I want to deal with if I decided I wanted more power - and I was going to be making more power than normal because I already had JWT cams. When you start making a lot more power than 400whp on the TN kit, the tq really starts increasing - can reach 500tq probably pretty easy if you're running 440+whp and I was thinking that could snap rods. I know there's parasitic losses with superchargers, but I'll just deal with them. The gradual tq increase instead of instant huge tq increase might help the engine last longer - would also produce less heat possibly than the TN kit simply because the TN kit makes the engine have so much more midrange power. That and I think I probably liked the more gradual flat tq curve than the huge pointy mountain shape that the ST's seem to make. I'm thinking that as I work my way up to around 500whp the tq curve will always be very managable with traction and still have a pretty quick car that would be reasonably well rounded.
The only kits I was seriously considering were the ATI SC and APS TT.
just something to think about, I have seen a couple of instances on mustangs that were running a vortech in which the seals in the super charger failed. So all the oil ends up in the intake, and not in the pan killing your motor and the supercharger... Considering how many S-trims that have been installed over the years it has to be extremely rare, but i know about three seperate cases
In either case i woulds look at the tunner kits, just a lot more flexibility and if your not comfortable tunning you can get which ever piggy back your local tunner is familiar with...
hey Sentry, i used to own a 2005 350z 5AT and i sold it to a friend, he's was thinking about Stillen's S/C but the max output was around 330whp, he want a daily driven car with 350 to 400whp that's all, something he can enjoy while driving.
I on the other hand bought 2006 350z 6MT and 2006 G35 Sedan 5AT, now i'm about to sell the Z and put my money on the G35 Sedan, i enjoyed it more than the Z lately, and the Z isn't much space for picking up family or friends, so i was thinking the same way as my friend, i want 350 to 400whp on my G35 and i would like to enjoy it as a family car and a fast sport sedan as well, so after searching the net i found out that ATI would suite me better than the Vortech, i guess it's less to maintaine due that it's self contained oiling system, and the teeth design belt so i don't have to worry about the belt slipping, and i'm not aiming for more than 440whp, having 400whp on a sedan is a scary thing i guess.
But i'd like to find more helpful info about both kits, their website doesn't afford that much of info or help, maybe you guys can help me.
Used to be my car:
2005 Le Mans Sunset 350z 5AT (Sold to a friend):
K&N Typhoon CAI
Crawford cast Plenum
Crawford strut bar
Buddy Club Racing Spec Condencer
UR Pully set
TopSpeed Headers
UTR Resonated Test-Pipes
Stillen SS Exhaust
Nismo Cams (Coming soon)
TS ECU Reflash (Coming soon)
well for daily driving, the stillen kit would give you a lot more power at low rpm than any other supercharger would. I mean, even with the 3.12 pulley, I'm only making like 2 lbs of boost at 3000 rpms - though if you have cams and all major breathing mods and 3.9 gears etc it'll have a lot more punch than a stage 1 or 2 - even stage 3 stillen kit. I'm making equal or more tq at 3000 rpms than a stillen stage 1,2, or even 3 kit, but below that I think the stillen stage 2 and 3 will start having more tq - and this is only cause I'm running the 3.12 pulley and making 450whp - it might be even 460-465whp by the time it's tuned.
the stillen doesn't make high peak numbers, but for daily driving punch I'd probably go for that if your friend is thinking about a supercharger. Turbos don't give you anything until around 2500 rpms. I'm not sure what rpm you or your friend drive at. With a really lightweight clutch, people tend to drive right at around 2500 rpms anyway. This is one of the reasons I really wanted a twin turbo - for that instant spool up right there, but in my case I would have been making like 440-480whp and 500-550tq and that tq just scares me on a stock block.
Anyway, the vortech is actually going to be less maintenence than the the ATI as far as the oil goes - change the oil once for everything vs changing 2 sets of oil. Now the belts yeah, they're a different story. The ATI has a better design in that regard, but you gotta pay for 2 belts etc when you change them - not a huge deal though. I'm not sure what else to say except the ATI is a nice kit, but very very noisy at parking lot speeds as others here have said.
it's not like the belts will not have to be tightened on occasion or won't stretch a little or anything, they just simply won't slip at extreme high hp setups
I've started to lean toward the vortech kit since it comes with fuel system, but i told you before we're installing it on 5AT car, so what gains do you think we might get???
Procharger vs. Vortech (S/C owners only)
