BrokeZ

iTrader: (1)

My goal is to convert my PE TT kit to a water cooled setup. I hear it has been done and i'm sure someone on the boards (gurgen? chebosto?) has done it. Im just looking for some tips and advice to get me started. A parts list is also a plus! Thanks in advance.

BTW, i just ordered a koyo radiator (thick core) and nismo low temp thermostat. Thought it would be a good time to route it to the turbos somehow.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

the only real benefit to doing so is that you won't have to run the car for quite as long on cool down as you would without the water cooling.....may not be worth all the trouble.

eagletanggreen

iTrader: (40)

My water lines are hooked up. I have no idea where they got the parts from, and I can't asked becuase the shop just closed down. Maybe KTAYLOR has them hooked up and can chime in. However I can take pics of my turbos to see what they came up with.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

Gugen did it.. i'm in the process of building my lines too-

do a search. he posted it a while a go-

gringott

iTrader: (17)

According to that other turbo kit man. from Austr. their kit only uses water to cool their turbos - the oil is only for lube. Is that because of a different design of the turbo?

posted on the other forum:
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
watercooled turbos don't use the engine oil to cool them like conventional turbos...the oil is just there for lubrication of the bearings.

100% correct.

Peter

This didn't make sense to me as the APS guy who started the thread had "high" oil temps, and installed an oil cooler for lower temps.

My question was:
I'm suprized that the water cooling is what is cooling the APS kit, because his oil temps are actually a little higher than mine under the same circumstances. I have not run water lines to my PE TT kit (although I can), so mine is only using oil. So I surmise either:

The water cooling lines are not effective
The oil for lube only is picking up heat from the turbos anyway.

If I am wrong, tell me why.


And I asked this:
My PE kit can be water cooled, I have not run the lines yet. I agree about the APS temps, see my post above. I have heard that (in general) water lines are only helpful in after you shut the car down, they continue to flow to prevent coking. How do the APS turbos prevent the oil from picking up temp and only being used for lub?

And the OP (who installed the oil cooler) posted this:
They don't prevent the oil from picking up heat. As long as the oil is ran to the turbo, it will heat up. oil temps vary a lot based on the location of the temp sensor and that more than likely will make up the variance you might be seeing

tig488

iTrader: (18)

they use both the oil AND water for cooling.

BrokeZ

iTrader: (1)

So, using coolant to cool turbos is more efficient after you shut off your car? Also, does this help in increasing the longevity of your turbo?

Should i just get an oil cooler and call it a day? Will changing to water cooled really help enough to make it worth it?

gringott

iTrader: (17)

For the PE kit, according to what Gurgen told me to the best of my memory, the water will continue to flow after the car is shut down due to heat convection, this will prevent the oil from coking.

KTaylor

iTrader: (17)

I installed the water cooling on my PE TT and I used Gurgen's info to help figure out what I needed. Here's a copy of the email he sent me. Thanks again Gurgen

Here is the info that I dug up that summarizes all that you need.

Here are the part numbers of the fittings/hoses for the watercooling stuff. Everything is modeled after the APS setup:



The onyl assumption that I made is that the IHI's, like Garret's have the 14mmx1.5 thread in the exhaust housing for the water cooling lines.

1. The turbo-side adapters: ATPTurbo.com
You will need 2 of these (for the p-side turbo):

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FTG

...and 2 of these (banjos, for the d-side):

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FTG

McMaster has the latter as well, I bet, this one comes with the washers, though, so it may be less trouble.

2. The hoses/hose ends from SummitRacing.com

Here are the parts:

hose: AER-FCC0610 x1
the hose ends: AER-FBM1122 x3, AER-FBM-1112 x2, AER-FBM1103 x1

here are the various adapters, also from Summit: SUM-220647

THe only thing that's iffy is how we connect the "end" of the watercooling lines to the heater hose. My search for a T that's got tow 3/4" barbs and a -6 male fitting are still unsuccessful. So i so far have a three-way (huge) -12 all-male tee, and we'll have to get a -12 to -6 reducer.

Oh yeah, the part that was hardest to find was the elusive 3/8" bspt to -6 adaper that goes on the side of the block. That was from mcmaster.com, part #5097k35.

Hope this helps

In general check out http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FTG

these guys are awesoem wrt to turbo accessories.

tig488

iTrader: (18)

i dont know if the water keeps flowing after the motor is turned off, it shouldnt flow much, probably just settle back down. but the coolants job is to disperse heat, just like in the engine. it does that much better than oil does. the water keeps the tubro cartidge cooler during operation.

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

No problem, Kurt, glad to help a fellow PE-er.

A couple of thoughts, the water DOES indeed continue flowing after the engine is shut off. That's by design, ever since these were invented. In fact, when you plumb the water cooling to the turbos you MUST make sure that you don't have a run though design, i.e. that the water is NOT forced through theturbos during normal operation. The demand for water cooling is satisfied by the heat syphoning capability of the temperature differential itself. When the ca is running, there is relatively little flow going through the turbos, and it does so only due to the fact that the water boils off the hot surface of the bearing wall and, to put it simply, rises to the hot side; this is why proper plumbing is required. The APS design is perfect.

Secondly, and MORE importantly, is that you absolutely MUST hook up the water cooling on a water cooled turbo, it's not simply optional. The bearing housing design is completely different on a BB, watercooled turbocharger; this is why it requires less oil than sleeve-type turbo, only to coat the ball bearings, and not provide a medium for the shaft to float on. This is by far not enough to cool the turbo and protect against coking. I would connect the lines for certain.

A finding: your coolant temps WILL go up marginally, 2-4 degrees C, they did in my case. You will need to get the T-custom made (part 167 in the pic above). It was simple enough, just get a -6AN stainless male fitting and weld it on to a 3/4" OD straight barb coupler. In fact, I had two of these made, one for me and one for Cheston.

Cheston, are you gonna pick the thing up anytime soon? hehe. Call me.

HTH guys...

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Here is the answer I got from PE Japan when I contacted them about connectors or a kit for water cooling:

Yes, the turbocharger is capable of water cooling but the turbochargers on 350Z are not capable of water cooling as there is not enough space to do it.
The boost pressure set low ( the factory setting 0.3kg/cm2) so it may not need water cooling.

I guess they had not heard of you Gurgen.

Weqster

not enough room?

I agree with gurgen. Water cooling on a ball bearing turbo is essential. Its part of the design. On a plain bearing turbo it is used to more efficently cool a turbo and prevent caking of oil, but the turbo will survive without them by letting the car cool before shut off.

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

LOL...that's hillarous... there is not enough room, what a crock of ****. And I know exactly the person who designed the kit. There is not enough room for 6-8mm thick hoses? Funny (and stupid).

As far as whether or not low boost pressure setup needing water ooling.... it does't matter, the turbocharger is still exposed to a LOT of exhaust air, and the temperature to which it is exposed even at low boost levels is still very high, definitely above the coking threshold for the oil (heck, even on an NA car the EGT can easily reach 700degrees C).

gringott

iTrader: (17)

That was the point that I realized PE was not much help in the matter.

rocks

iTrader: (1)

Let your car idle for 5 minutes after running it hard and you dont need water cooling.

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

wrong!

captj3

iTrader: (1)

I think PE should look at the APS TT install instructions so they can learn how to run the water lines for there turbos...lol

gringott

iTrader: (17)

My personal feeling is that PE designed this kit with the Japanese market in mind, the US market is an afterthought at best. They obviously feel that the lines are not needed. My correspondence above was with a translator directly with PE Japan, and I think some mistranslating or misunderstanding might be taking place.

Although Gurgen and others are quite firm in that the water lines must be run, I personally don't think that they are critical. I don't base this on scientific principal, but experience. I have currently over 20K miles on mine, hard miles, in a four season climate. No problem. The APS owners who have posted oil temps have the SAME or HIGHER oil temps as my kit. The oil temps are higher than stock. That tells me one thing: The water lines are not transferring the majority of heat, the oil is. Peter of APS is, IMO, wrong. They might INTEND for the oil lines to only lubricate, and for the water lines to cool, but the temps show that is not happening. The cooling system might take some of the load, but the oil is being heated for sure.

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

Let me comment on that. What you are saying makes logical sense. However, my oil temps did drop 3-6 deg C after installing the watercooling, and by water temps rose by about 2-4 deg C or so, like i posted before. This supports the idea that there is some, albeit minor, heat removal during engine's operation. Also, there are other factors involved tat would contribute to oil temps. It is a fact taht upgrading the radiator lowers oil temps as well, it did so in my case pretty considerably. It also states so in the corky bell book. So the APS that saw higher oil temps could have been easily a function of poor water cooling.

As far as problems with the turbos, I had to replace my d-side turbo because of a bent shaft, which is very much a symptom of hot bearings, from what my research has revealed. The car was absolutely asymtomatic, more over, just removing the turbo and inspect the impeller and the bearing play did not reveal a problem, only when you try to spin the impeller by hand, then you'd see an obvious and unmistakeable hesitation at evry 360 deg of rotation. Who knows, maybe this hadn'tmuch to do with the water cooling, but maybe it did.