Forced Induction for Noobs....
01-11-2009, 06:49 AM
#201
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Agreed,
If you're not going for crazy power (like 800+RWHP) don't sleeve.
Sleeving has inherit cooling issues (not really issues but you'll need more cooling ability).
Like slide said, pistons, rods, bearings, EMS, fuel, drivetrain.
You'll never stay "mild". I have the same stuff(stock head/cams), and SP TT setup and made almost 800rwhp on a mild tune.
Tom
If you're not going for crazy power (like 800+RWHP) don't sleeve.
Sleeving has inherit cooling issues (not really issues but you'll need more cooling ability).
Like slide said, pistons, rods, bearings, EMS, fuel, drivetrain.
You'll never stay "mild". I have the same stuff(stock head/cams), and SP TT setup and made almost 800rwhp on a mild tune.
Tom
First off.... YOU DON'T NEED SLEEVES!!! Unless you plan on building a 700+whp motor down the line you don't need sleeves.
If your set on APS, and a mild build.... Do Pistons, Rods, Standalone EMS, Return Fuel System w/ at least 600cc Inj., and a clutch and flywheel to hold it all. Cams will help you in the top end if you can budget it, but the stock heads are A OK.
If your set on APS, and a mild build.... Do Pistons, Rods, Standalone EMS, Return Fuel System w/ at least 600cc Inj., and a clutch and flywheel to hold it all. Cams will help you in the top end if you can budget it, but the stock heads are A OK.
01-11-2009, 08:04 PM
#202
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Okay so the heads are fine and I don't have to sleeve. better news then expected. And slidefox I am not set on APS, just know they are quality parts. I really would like to be TT but think i would kill myself with much more then 450hp. It will be a DD. Stupid question but is going boosted worth it? I know it is but from you guys who DD your boosted z is it bad?
01-11-2009, 08:14 PM
#203
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Okay so the heads are fine and I don't have to sleeve. better news then expected. And slidefox I am not set on APS, just know they are quality parts. I really would like to be TT but think i would kill myself with much more then 450hp. It will be a DD. Stupid question but is going boosted worth it? I know it is but from you guys who DD your boosted z is it bad?
Once you experience a boosted car, there is nothing like it. The problem is... boost is like crack. Once you get a fix, you want more. You say you only want 450whp now, but that will soon turn into 550, than 650, than 750...
If you know you might want more power down the road, invest in a kit that will alow you to increase power without major modifications.
In my own personal opinion, I prefer a single turbo for DD rather than twins. Twins will have more useable power in the low rpms getting around town, but there is more stress on the motor. You can keep your car out of boost with a single during DD; based on your driving habits. This way there is less stress on the motor.
01-12-2009, 07:11 PM
#205
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01-13-2009, 06:56 PM
#206
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really!?!?!? Wow that would be a good way for me to go then. Because i know in the feature I will want more power but not until i get used to something a little lower then 650whp. thanks again slidefox!
01-15-2009, 07:22 AM
#207
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APS is a good turbo kit, but there are better quality (more expensive) single turbo kits out there. If you go single or twins, you going to have roughly the same power. The power you make is based on your setup, and your tuner. You can have a 600whp capabel setup, but have it tuner for 400whp.
Once you experience a boosted car, there is nothing like it. The problem is... boost is like crack. Once you get a fix, you want more. You say you only want 450whp now, but that will soon turn into 550, than 650, than 750...
If you know you might want more power down the road, invest in a kit that will alow you to increase power without major modifications.
In my own personal opinion, I prefer a single turbo for DD rather than twins. Twins will have more useable power in the low rpms getting around town, but there is more stress on the motor. You can keep your car out of boost with a single during DD; based on your driving habits. This way there is less stress on the motor.
Once you experience a boosted car, there is nothing like it. The problem is... boost is like crack. Once you get a fix, you want more. You say you only want 450whp now, but that will soon turn into 550, than 650, than 750...
If you know you might want more power down the road, invest in a kit that will alow you to increase power without major modifications.
In my own personal opinion, I prefer a single turbo for DD rather than twins. Twins will have more useable power in the low rpms getting around town, but there is more stress on the motor. You can keep your car out of boost with a single during DD; based on your driving habits. This way there is less stress on the motor.
01-15-2009, 07:40 AM
#208
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Boost controllers are the bestest thing ever (well after the turbos of course).
But you will be limited by your motor if you are on the stock motor.
Some people will not run a boost controller if they are on stock motor so they are not tempted to push it too far. they just run on the wastegate spring pressure.
Its fun turning my controller up (well its just the tap of a button) and maxing out my boost gauge (hehehehe it reads to 29psi)
Tom
But you will be limited by your motor if you are on the stock motor.
Some people will not run a boost controller if they are on stock motor so they are not tempted to push it too far. they just run on the wastegate spring pressure.
Its fun turning my controller up (well its just the tap of a button) and maxing out my boost gauge (hehehehe it reads to 29psi)
Tom
see you don't recommend boost controllers, could a manual boost controller be the answer to the addiction(no in car adjustment) . only asking if you want more boost over base. if so what would be a good manual boost controller? just curious don't see many using it on this forum.
01-15-2009, 07:57 AM
#209
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Boost controllers are the bestest thing ever (well after the turbos of course).
But you will be limited by your motor if you are on the stock motor.
Some people will not run a boost controller if they are on stock motor so they are not tempted to push it too far. they just run on the wastegate spring pressure.
Its fun turning my controller up (well its just the tap of a button) and maxing out my boost gauge (hehehehe it reads to 29psi)
Tom
But you will be limited by your motor if you are on the stock motor.
Some people will not run a boost controller if they are on stock motor so they are not tempted to push it too far. they just run on the wastegate spring pressure.
Its fun turning my controller up (well its just the tap of a button) and maxing out my boost gauge (hehehehe it reads to 29psi)
Tom
01-15-2009, 08:34 AM
#210
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There are all different wastegate springs of different pressures available so you can go that route. I don't know anything about the boost control function of the utec so I'm no help there.
I run an AEM tru-boost (controller/gauge) and it works great.
My wastegate spring pressures give me about 9psi with the controller off, low boost is set at about 15psi, hi boost usually at 25psi (can go, and have had it at 30psi). Boost holds solid the whole time, but that has more to do with the wastegates, downpipe design, turbo choice, boost plumbing, IC setup.
Tom
I run an AEM tru-boost (controller/gauge) and it works great.
My wastegate spring pressures give me about 9psi with the controller off, low boost is set at about 15psi, hi boost usually at 25psi (can go, and have had it at 30psi). Boost holds solid the whole time, but that has more to do with the wastegates, downpipe design, turbo choice, boost plumbing, IC setup.
Tom
ya well i have the built motor just dropped the s/c. going gt37r but just wanna run at about 12psi. don't want a complicated setup. have the utech but don't trust the boost control function. just wanna set my boost at around 12psi and i don't want the option of upping the boost. at least for now.
01-15-2009, 08:52 AM
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i'm thinking of purchasing the Stillen supercharger for my 2005 roadster. my car is totally stock with a 6 speed manual. Stillen says that you don't need to do any work to the car other than installing the supercharger (and cutting the hood of course). this is my first experience with a supercharger. (i dont need exhasut or a lighter flywheel or a different clutch...they say it was designed for the stock motor)
would you guys recommend this one? my car is a daily driver and i put at least 90 miles on it a day. Stillen also says it is very reliable with very little maintenance (i heard the belts wear out quicker). also the oil in the unit doesnt need to be changed for 100,000 miles....
i'm not looking to go crazy with mods.. jut want a little more mid range power
please let me know your opinions..
thanks doug
would you guys recommend this one? my car is a daily driver and i put at least 90 miles on it a day. Stillen also says it is very reliable with very little maintenance (i heard the belts wear out quicker). also the oil in the unit doesnt need to be changed for 100,000 miles....
i'm not looking to go crazy with mods.. jut want a little more mid range power
please let me know your opinions..
thanks doug
01-15-2009, 09:09 AM
#212
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Exhaust is always a good thing to change......stock is VERY restrictive (single 1.75-2in pipe back to muffler).
The early TQ of the stillen SC may burn up your stock clutch. JWT clutch and flywheel are a good combo and drop some rotating mass from the drivetrain.
FI and DD aren't necessarily the best combo. cost vs power are not the best with the stillen (unless you find a used one). Maybe look at vortec sc or a single turbo. Turbo will tend to give you better mileage if thats a concern.
Tom
The early TQ of the stillen SC may burn up your stock clutch. JWT clutch and flywheel are a good combo and drop some rotating mass from the drivetrain.
FI and DD aren't necessarily the best combo. cost vs power are not the best with the stillen (unless you find a used one). Maybe look at vortec sc or a single turbo. Turbo will tend to give you better mileage if thats a concern.
Tom
i'm thinking of purchasing the Stillen supercharger for my 2005 roadster. my car is totally stock with a 6 speed manual. Stillen says that you don't need to do any work to the car other than installing the supercharger (and cutting the hood of course). this is my first experience with a supercharger. (i dont need exhasut or a lighter flywheel or a different clutch...they say it was designed for the stock motor)
would you guys recommend this one? my car is a daily driver and i put at least 90 miles on it a day. Stillen also says it is very reliable with very little maintenance (i heard the belts wear out quicker). also the oil in the unit doesnt need to be changed for 100,000 miles....
i'm not looking to go crazy with mods.. jut want a little more mid range power
please let me know your opinions..
thanks doug
would you guys recommend this one? my car is a daily driver and i put at least 90 miles on it a day. Stillen also says it is very reliable with very little maintenance (i heard the belts wear out quicker). also the oil in the unit doesnt need to be changed for 100,000 miles....
i'm not looking to go crazy with mods.. jut want a little more mid range power
please let me know your opinions..
thanks doug
01-19-2009, 01:13 PM
#214
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I was thinking about this last night, and really didn't know what to ask.
The vq rods being the weakest link, does anyone know the breaking point of the stock pistons... I would figure there aren't any if tuning is perfect.
By this method what would there be against have eagle rods, arp l19s, arp mainstuds, stock pistons and hks hg, on an otherwise stock motor. This setup I would think would hold 500 whp all day long.
The vq rods being the weakest link, does anyone know the breaking point of the stock pistons... I would figure there aren't any if tuning is perfect.
By this method what would there be against have eagle rods, arp l19s, arp mainstuds, stock pistons and hks hg, on an otherwise stock motor. This setup I would think would hold 500 whp all day long.
01-19-2009, 02:41 PM
#216
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I've dugg, for almost 3 hours and come up with nothing. I kind of want to be the first to try this. I have moderate goals, yes it is addictive but, I am very happy with 450 - 500 whp.
01-21-2009, 01:08 PM
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i was just wondering when you put turbo kit in your car doesnt it stress the engine even if you get it tuned? I was thiking about turbonetic single kit. Does anyone know what i need to look out for if i want to buy a used one? also whats badabout running mid boost or high? sorry for questions, Yes i am noob to this. oh yeah how much do you say i wi end up spending on used kit with accesories?
01-21-2009, 03:18 PM
#218
i was just wondering when you put turbo kit in your car doesnt it stress the engine even if you get it tuned? I was thiking about turbonetic single kit. Does anyone know what i need to look out for if i want to buy a used one? also whats badabout running mid boost or high? sorry for questions, Yes i am noob to this. oh yeah how much do you say i wi end up spending on used kit with accesories?
The biggest weakness in the VQ motors is the rods. It is my understanding that the Rev-Up rods are slightly stronger than the DE rods, and the HR rods are the strongest stock VQ35 rods. If you want to exceed any of the above mentioned RWHP numbers (based on which motor you have), you should probably consider going with a built short block. There are many vendors on this site that provide very good short blocks.
The ones I am most familiar with are (in alphabetical order) Forged Performance (FP), GTM, and Import Parts Pro (IPP). I personally know Sharif, Sam, and Kyle, and I would trust a short block built by any of these people. I am confident that there are also good short blocks built by a number of other good vendors (e.g. Injected Performance, Sound Performance Racing, AAM, etc.), I just have not had enough interaction with them to give an opinion. I purchased my Cosworth Intake plenum and ATI damper from Injected Performance and, as with FP, GTM and IPP, their customer service is exemplary. Do some research on this site and I am sure you will find a good company to deal with.
I over-revved my motor recently and damaged all kinds of things. Japtrix is handling my re-build, and I whole heartedly recommend them as well. I’m trying to be un-biased because I have developed a very good friendship with Roger.
Edit: I just noticed I screwed up my alphabetical order. OK, it's late, one too many beers with dinner. F and G come before I, so I amended this post to put FP and GTM before IPP.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 01-21-2009 at 05:44 PM.
01-21-2009, 04:23 PM
#219
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Yes, it stresses the engine. The more boost, the more stress. The general consensus is that for a stock VQ35DE block, you can run to about 400 RWHP. With a Rev-Up motor, you can probably run a little bit high, maybe around 430 RWHP. Some people are pushing the HR motors to around 500 RWHP, but the jury is still out there on how long they will last.
The biggest weakness in the VQ motors is the rods. It is my understanding that the Rev-Up rods are slightly stronger than the DE rods, and the HR rods are the strongest stock VQ35 rods. If you want to exceed any of the above mentioned RWHP numbers (based on which motor you have), you should probably consider going with a built short block. There are many vendors on this site that provide very good short blocks.
The ones I am most familiar with are (in alphabetical order) Import Parts Pro (IPP), Forged Performance (FP) and GTM. I personally know Kyle, Sharif and Sam, and I would trust a short block built by any of these people. I am confident that there are also good short blocks built by a number of other good vendors (e.g. Injected Performance, Sound Performance Racing, AAM, etc.), I just have not had enough interaction with them to give an opinion. I purchased my Cosworth Intake plenum and ATI damper from Injected Performance and, as with IPP, FP and GTM, their customer service is exemplary. Do some research on this site and I am sure you will find a good company to deal with.
Yes, it stresses the engine. The more boost, the more stress. The general consensus is that for a stock VQ35DE block, you can run to about 400 RWHP. With a Rev-Up motor, you can probably run a little bit high, maybe around 430 RWHP. Some people are pushing the HR motors to around 500 RWHP, but the jury is still out there on how long they will last.
The biggest weakness in the VQ motors is the rods. It is my understanding that the Rev-Up rods are slightly stronger than the DE rods, and the HR rods are the strongest stock VQ35 rods. If you want to exceed any of the above mentioned RWHP numbers (based on which motor you have), you should probably consider going with a built short block. There are many vendors on this site that provide very good short blocks.
The ones I am most familiar with are (in alphabetical order) Import Parts Pro (IPP), Forged Performance (FP) and GTM. I personally know Kyle, Sharif and Sam, and I would trust a short block built by any of these people. I am confident that there are also good short blocks built by a number of other good vendors (e.g. Injected Performance, Sound Performance Racing, AAM, etc.), I just have not had enough interaction with them to give an opinion. I purchased my Cosworth Intake plenum and ATI damper from Injected Performance and, as with IPP, FP and GTM, their customer service is exemplary. Do some research on this site and I am sure you will find a good company to deal with.
I over-revved my motor recently and damaged all kinds of things. Japtrix is handling my re-build, and I whole heartedly recommend them as well. I’m trying to be un-biased because I have developed a very good friendship with Roger.
The biggest weakness in the VQ motors is the rods. It is my understanding that the Rev-Up rods are slightly stronger than the DE rods, and the HR rods are the strongest stock VQ35 rods. If you want to exceed any of the above mentioned RWHP numbers (based on which motor you have), you should probably consider going with a built short block. There are many vendors on this site that provide very good short blocks.
The ones I am most familiar with are (in alphabetical order) Import Parts Pro (IPP), Forged Performance (FP) and GTM. I personally know Kyle, Sharif and Sam, and I would trust a short block built by any of these people. I am confident that there are also good short blocks built by a number of other good vendors (e.g. Injected Performance, Sound Performance Racing, AAM, etc.), I just have not had enough interaction with them to give an opinion. I purchased my Cosworth Intake plenum and ATI damper from Injected Performance and, as with IPP, FP and GTM, their customer service is exemplary. Do some research on this site and I am sure you will find a good company to deal with.
Yes, it stresses the engine. The more boost, the more stress. The general consensus is that for a stock VQ35DE block, you can run to about 400 RWHP. With a Rev-Up motor, you can probably run a little bit high, maybe around 430 RWHP. Some people are pushing the HR motors to around 500 RWHP, but the jury is still out there on how long they will last.
The biggest weakness in the VQ motors is the rods. It is my understanding that the Rev-Up rods are slightly stronger than the DE rods, and the HR rods are the strongest stock VQ35 rods. If you want to exceed any of the above mentioned RWHP numbers (based on which motor you have), you should probably consider going with a built short block. There are many vendors on this site that provide very good short blocks.
The ones I am most familiar with are (in alphabetical order) Import Parts Pro (IPP), Forged Performance (FP) and GTM. I personally know Kyle, Sharif and Sam, and I would trust a short block built by any of these people. I am confident that there are also good short blocks built by a number of other good vendors (e.g. Injected Performance, Sound Performance Racing, AAM, etc.), I just have not had enough interaction with them to give an opinion. I purchased my Cosworth Intake plenum and ATI damper from Injected Performance and, as with IPP, FP and GTM, their customer service is exemplary. Do some research on this site and I am sure you will find a good company to deal with.
I over-revved my motor recently and damaged all kinds of things. Japtrix is handling my re-build, and I whole heartedly recommend them as well. I’m trying to be un-biased because I have developed a very good friendship with Roger.
thanks for some info. so if i am running about close to 400hp with reg boost, is that still bad for engine? i want to run a safe setup because it is a dd. i want more power but nothing ridiculous like 700whp, 400 would be more than enough. also prices you say are good for a used turbonectics kit or any other you would recommend. also what should i look out for when buyin a used kit
01-21-2009, 04:41 PM
#220
thanks for some info. so if i am running about close to 400hp with reg boost, is that still bad for engine? i want to run a safe setup because it is a dd. i want more power but nothing ridiculous like 700whp, 400 would be more than enough. also prices you say are good for a used turbonectics kit or any other you would recommend. also what should i look out for when buyin a used kit
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...bo-thread.html
The only way I would buy a used turbo kit is through YOUR tuner who is also installing the kit and knows the present condition of the kit. JETPILOT has a Greddy TT kit and after 4,000 miles the turbos already have to be rebuilt. Now this is a standup guy and he wouldn't sell you the kit until it is back in good condition. But not all people on these forums are so honest, and you may end up getting royally screwed.
Look, when you boost an engine, you are pushing it harder than the manufacturer intended it to be pushed. In all likelyhood, a stock motor will last longer than a boosted motor. It is a tradeoff. The harder you push the motor, the faster it is going to wear out. For a stock VQ35DE with about 400 RWHP, some people are getting reasonable milage, but unless somebody rarely or never uses the boost (in which case adding the boost is a complete waste of time and money), the engine will not last as long.
You should also read this thread:
http://g35driver.com/forums/forced-i...-you-push.html
Long story short, if you are worried about damaging you're motor, DON'T boost it. If you have extra cash available which you are willing to use to re-build the motor when it does finally give out, then go ahead.
I strongly, strongly recommend you read the links I provided before posting any more questions. I think they will answer most, if not all, of any other questions you may have.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 01-21-2009 at 06:22 PM.