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Since you openly admit your not in the "tuning" business, why don't you stick to what you ACTUALLY do know, and quit trying to bad mouth a product you have ZERO experience with, and know absolutely nothing about! Let the people that have had the experience make their posts. I have been in at least 4 cars with ProEFI's in them, and ALL of them PERFORMED Flawlessly! I watched them dyno the Intense G35, and watched them pull the car to 8krpm, so i'm guessing it in FACT does remove the rev limiter, you know since the stock computer no longer has ANY control whatsoever over the coils and injectors. Any mis-information comes from people like you who only go off of hearsay.... so your not helping anyone.
I watched them dyno the Intense G35, and watched them pull the car to 8krpm, so i'm guessing it in FACT does remove the rev limiter, you know since the stock computer no longer has ANY control whatsoever over the coils and injectors. Any mis-information comes from people like you who only go off of hearsay.... so your not helping anyone.
Just to make it clear... The PRO-EFI can not currently remove the rev limiter or speed limiter from 05+ cars... Those cars use the DBW to shut down the motor. Since the Pro-EFI is a piggy back and has no control on DBW it can not in fact raise the limiter. Having control over the coils,injectors etc will not make a difference... The cars that you have seen rev over stock were all more then likely 03-04 cars, or had factory limiter re flashed if it was a 05 +
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94 300ZX TT 60k Miles,94 GT4788 Supra 6spd,98 Twin 76mm GTS Silver w/blue 1 of 28,03 WRX Street car STI swapped,02 gt42r powered WRX,96 Skyline GTR-33 VSPEC (wifes car for sale)
Just to make it clear... The PRO-EFI can not currently remove the rev limiter or speed limiter from 05+ cars... Those cars use the DBW to shut down the motor. Since the Pro-EFI is a piggy back and has no control on DBW it can not in fact raise the limiter. Having control over the coils,injectors etc will not make a difference... The cars that you have seen rev over stock were all more then likely 03-04 cars, or had factory limiter re flashed if it was a 05 +
It's worth noteing that the Nismo division of Nissan Motors do not use the Hitachi ECU in there 380 RS version Z car, they have gone with the Australian MoTeC unit for control.
Amen to that taurran. It all turns into a giant dick swinging contest with ego's outweighing anything else.
To the OP, here is the best advise anyone can give you. Unless you are tuning the ecu yourself, pick your tuner and use what they recommend you use. It's very easy to get caught up in the pomp and circumstance of the forums. If you are self tuning, I'd recommend you enroll in EFI University, take the courses and once completed, pick the system which best matches your needs, and budget.
It's worth noteing that the Nismo division of Nissan Motors do not use the Hitachi ECU in there 380 RS version Z car, they have gone with the Australian MoTeC unit for control.
the 380RS-C (the factory race car) uses the Motec (for a variety of reasons), the street version (380RS) uses the stock Hitachi ecu.
So far only 2 professional tuners (not self tuners) actually stepped up to make a comment on this thread: Junior and Sam. - unless I missed something-
I guess no other pro tuner has anything else to add?
I would think the pro tuners themselves might have some input as to what they prefer to use/tune for cars beyond stock???
Amen to that taurran. It all turns into a giant dick swinging contest with ego's outweighing anything else.
To the OP, here is the best advise anyone can give you. Unless you are tuning the ecu yourself, pick your tuner and use what they recommend you use. It's very easy to get caught up in the pomp and circumstance of the forums. If you are self tuning, I'd recommend you enroll in EFI University, take the courses and once completed, pick the system which best matches your needs, and budget.
I agree... to a point. The problem is that you have people either assuming things from the I heard from this guy who heard from this guy that....blah...blah...blah. The other side is you have dealers who are pushing products that they sell and are comfortable with (which is absolutely fine as long as truths are being told), and steering people away from products just because they aren't dealers for that product. Unfortunately the community loses here. You start getting bad information about products that really work. I for one don't buy in to hype, in this day and age however it doesn't take too long to see the products that are for real, and the ones that are hype. I disagree about your statement in thinking that taking a class at EFI university is going to teach you how to tune. Experience is the only way your going to learn proper tuning techniques. I know several people who have taken that class (some more than once) and I still wouldn't let them touch my lawnmower. It is all about budget and needs in the end. The price of the ECU is nothing compared to the price of a few blown engines, so this has to be considered as well. The one fact that everyone keeps glossing over is that the ProEFI IS the only one with all of the engine protection features of the factory ecu's and more. They chose to keep their ecu's in the hands of capable tuners until a user software is available that helps minimize tuner error. No matter how you feel about that, you have to commend them on showing restrain and keeping the best interests of the final end user. The one thing that does in fact hold true is that a tuner (any tuner) has products they are comfortable most with, and if you have one close to you, and that is the guy you are planning to use, it makes sense to use what they are familiar with. However, that does NOT mean it is the best product for you. If you feel you want what another product has, I would encourage your tuner to look into and become a dealer for that product. There are other solutions as well, several tuners fly all over the country (and the world for that matter) setting up and tuning cars. Contrary to popular belief, a PROPERLY set up and tuned car does NOT need constant tweaking and messing with any more than our stock cars do. Options such as boost control and race gas settings can be made at the flick of a switch (at least with the a few of the aftermarket ECU's). Choose your product based upon your needs first, and tuner availability second. Any truly good tuner can tune ANYTHING, and I would think would look to "playing" with a new system as both interesting and challenging.
So far only 2 professional tuners (not self tuners) actually stepped up to make a comment on this thread: Junior and Sam. - unless I missed something-
I guess no other pro tuner has anything else to add? I would think the pro tuners themselves might have some input as to what they prefer to use/tune for cars beyond stock???
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
The other side is you have dealers who are pushing products that they sell and are comfortable with (which is absolutely fine as long as truths are being told), and steering people away from products just because they aren't dealers for that product
/\ that is one problem... I have yet to see a dealer that carry all EMS out there and dealers/pro tuner will always be bias.
/\ that is one problem... I have yet to see a dealer that carry all EMS out there and dealers/pro tuner will always be bias.
I don't know...Intense is an HKS Pro dealer, AEM dealer, have sold and used Motec, Utec, and Autronic...not sure about Haltech. They prefer the ProEFI. I agree about the rest of the dealers however for sure!
Just to make it clear... The PRO-EFI can not currently remove the rev limiter or speed limiter from 05+ cars... Those cars use the DBW to shut down the motor. Since the Pro-EFI is a piggy back and has no control on DBW it can not in fact raise the limiter. Having control over the coils,injectors etc will not make a difference... The cars that you have seen rev over stock were all more then likely 03-04 cars, or had factory limiter re flashed if it was a 05 +
Good thing mines an 04 huh?
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434ci Stroker LS7+ nitrous in progress.
So far only 2 professional tuners (not self tuners) actually stepped up to make a comment on this thread: Junior and Sam. - unless I missed something-
I guess no other pro tuner has anything else to add?
I would think the pro tuners themselves might have some input as to what they prefer to use/tune for cars beyond stock???
I would not discount Gurgen's remarks so readily. He has probably spent more hours educating himself how to tune than most tuners, since he's doing it for the knowledge, not to earn money. He is also probably one of the few people on the planet that has successfully implemented the Motec on this platform, which I'll grant him is one of the most versatile and complex pieces of equipment on the market.
That said, an ECU for the common man is what this thread is about. Endlessly tweaking a top notch ECU for perfect operation isn't going to be the best choice for the bulk of the car enthusiasts out there.
Rather than pick an EMS, here are the criteria for an EMS that I think are most important (IMO) for our platform with built block forced induction applications:
1. Reliable hardware (no crashing or locking up, no overheating, no blown fuses, plug and play harness to eliminate wiring faults etc)
2. Reliable firmware (no crashing or locking up, can be updated remotely with fixes as needed without risk)
3. Reliable tuning software (no crashing or locking up - perhaps not as critical but we surely want to use a tuner's time effectively so they are more apt to put out a better tune)
4. Tuner support / customer service
5. Easy to use end user software (also must not crash or lock up, but ease of use is most important here with the ability to make changes and see changes clearly, DATA LOGGING is critical for any serious application such as for track use)
6. End user support / customer service, including the ability for end users to get the technical information they need to use the EMS for the intended application (track, etc)
7. Features and specs to support the intended application (in this case forced induction on the Z/G platform).
The only way to get feedback on the above list is from end users and tuners over a period of months to years...
The FCON has the longest history on this platform and is by far the most mature. You cannot discount that. I just wished #5 and #6 weren't completely missing or I would've picked it (end users are locked out as are non pro-tuners). Of the newer units, the Haltech has more maturity on the Z/G platform. Then the ProEFI. Both have potential, but both have issues that need to be addressed, which is not unexpected for a new EMS implementation. Only time will tell how serious these issues are and whether end users and tuners are happy with the product... I have not kept up with the ProEFI, but have been very happy with the periodic updates to the Haltech. There's just 1 or 2 more updates I'd like to see and then I think even Gurgen will be impressed (integrated with my carPC, I've got GPS and wireless telemetry viewable on my home desktop, regardless of where the car is!) - we'll just have to wait and see when it happens. I know if I as a user had been locked out of the Haltech (no real time interface and/or no data logging), I would never have known any better.
As for the comment that a good tuner can tune anything.. That is right on.. Its ok to specialize in 1 or 2 things.. but as a good competent tuner, you should be able to dive into any ecu and get around... Not saying it will be perfect the first time around, or that it will get tuned quickly.. but you should be able to get it done.
I like all ECUs.. I prefer some over others, but they all will get the job done in 80% of the cases.. Some ECUs are best left for more extreme applications though.
Junior
__________________
94 300ZX TT 60k Miles,94 GT4788 Supra 6spd,98 Twin 76mm GTS Silver w/blue 1 of 28,03 WRX Street car STI swapped,02 gt42r powered WRX,96 Skyline GTR-33 VSPEC (wifes car for sale)
I agree... to a point. The problem is that you have people either assuming things from the I heard from this guy who heard from this guy that....blah...blah...blah. The other side is you have dealers who are pushing products that they sell and are comfortable with (which is absolutely fine as long as truths are being told), and steering people away from products just because they aren't dealers for that product. Unfortunately the community loses here. You start getting bad information about products that really work. I for one don't buy in to hype, in this day and age however it doesn't take too long to see the products that are for real, and the ones that are hype. I disagree about your statement in thinking that taking a class at EFI university is going to teach you how to tune. Experience is the only way your going to learn proper tuning techniques. I know several people who have taken that class (some more than once) and I still wouldn't let them touch my lawnmower. It is all about budget and needs in the end. The price of the ECU is nothing compared to the price of a few blown engines, so this has to be considered as well. The one fact that everyone keeps glossing over is that the ProEFI IS the only one with all of the engine protection features of the factory ecu's and more. They chose to keep their ecu's in the hands of capable tuners until a user software is available that helps minimize tuner error. No matter how you feel about that, you have to commend them on showing restrain and keeping the best interests of the final end user. The one thing that does in fact hold true is that a tuner (any tuner) has products they are comfortable most with, and if you have one close to you, and that is the guy you are planning to use, it makes sense to use what they are familiar with. However, that does NOT mean it is the best product for you. If you feel you want what another product has, I would encourage your tuner to look into and become a dealer for that product. There are other solutions as well, several tuners fly all over the country (and the world for that matter) setting up and tuning cars. Contrary to popular belief, a PROPERLY set up and tuned car does NOT need constant tweaking and messing with any more than our stock cars do. Options such as boost control and race gas settings can be made at the flick of a switch (at least with the a few of the aftermarket ECU's). Choose your product based upon your needs first, and tuner availability second. Any truly good tuner can tune ANYTHING, and I would think would look to "playing" with a new system as both interesting and challenging.
you missed my point partially. What I suggested to the OP is that if he wants to tune the car himself, he would be well served to take the classes, if he is not already experienced in the arena. I didn't say that such would automatically make you as good as anyone else out there, but it certainly goes a long way towards teaching you more than the basics.
you missed my point partially. What I suggested to the OP is that if he wants to tune the car himself, he would be well served to take the classes, if he is not already experienced in the arena. I didn't say that such would automatically make you as good as anyone else out there, but it certainly goes a long way towards teaching you more than the basics.
would you still suggest that to one of your customers (that doesnt have a clue), after you spend hours installing his build engine, turbo kit, many hours on the dyno tuning his car? and risk him blowing it up, and then start the blame game on you, other tuners that touch the car, faulty parts, etc etc etc....
Or would you prefer to make the important tunning changes yourself and only allow your customers to make the basic tuning changes like type fo fuel, boost level, 2-step, launch control..?
I am ovbiously talking about 95% of the customers that really dont know about tuning or think they know because they played on the computer but never actually done it on the dyno. Not some that have some real good technical knowledge and actuall have a little hands on experience
