RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

***ATTENTION SHOPS!*** What motor oil(s) do you use and recommend for built motors? And why?


During my limited research on here regarding motor oil, I've seen some recent discussion in a couple threads in the FI section regarding which oils are better or more suitable for built motors and high power FI applications. Central to the discussion has been the levels of zinc and phosphorus content in the various oils. Some argue that high levels of zinc and phoshorus are key for superior protection against friction and wear, and that the reduction of zinc & phosphorus in the formulation of many oils is partially to blame for many of the spun bearings in the VQ community.

In one of the threads, Cass007 posted a link to an interesting article by Forced Performance on the subject...

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf


However, I noticed that many of the shops have been silent and absent from the recent discussions about motor oils. I would like to bring the shops into the discussion to offer their feedback and experiences. What oil(s) do you use and recommend for built motors and most importantly... WHY? Also, are there any oils you recommend against and why?

For instance, I have been leaning towards using Shell Rotella T6 for my built motor. I have seen several positive posts about it, including Blackstone analysis. I haven't seen any negative comments about this oil from end users. But I'm curious to know what some of the shops think about the use of Rotella T6 and other similar turbo diesel oils.

Let's try to keep this thread as informative as possible, with opinions backed by experience and oil analysis reports. The primary purpose of this thread is to learn what oils the various shops use and for them to explain why they recommend them.

Blackstone reports (good or bad) from individual members are most welcome ...especially if about any of the oils discussed/recommended by the shops.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I read through the link that Cass007 posted (which was a very nice read) and the only little tidbit I can add from my own blackstone reports (posted in some other thread in this forum) is that Mobil 1 0W-40 showed much less bearing wear than Mobil1 15W-50. Both have high zinc/phosphorus so I suppose other factors must be involved.

Both Rotella and Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel truck oil seem to be universally hailed for generation of excellent UOA results.

Driven1

iTrader: (2)

Sub'd

Also agree there is some VERY good info is Cass' thread. Im definitely curious to know more about this.

midz350

iTrader: (4)

This thread will die in three days without a single post from any shop

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

I hope not. That would be a shame.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

I'm curious if other members see a reduction in pressure after pushing their cars hard or getting the oil up to at least 200*F.

I have idle pressure of ~20psi when warm @ 1000rpm, but after getting the oil a little warm when it was 80*F ambient temp I saw 18-15psi at the same rpm. The next day its back to 20psi again. I'm starting to keep a log of different temps/psi @ idle so problems can be identified quickly.

Any shop that builds, installs built motors should be able to chime in, they all put oil of one type or another in the cars unless a customer specifies something else.

jaminkid

iTrader: (9)

Waiting for more info. Interesting.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Although my engine is stock I see exactly the same thing. Idles at ~20psi normally and ~15psi after hard driving especially on hot days.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Since shops probably don't want to reveal their 'secret sauce' maybe we can pull our own build sheets and see what oil went in..?

IslandZavage

iTrader: (8)

I hope thats not true... Its motor oil...... sad thing is some shops probably read this thread and didnt comment.. this really could be a good thread with shop opinions added.. Im very curious to hear what shops have to say..

Honda2Nismo

Call and ask.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

I find it amazing how none of the shops working on these cars chime in to help out the average person. Back home i lived 45 minutes from buscher's, pc automotive, speed freaks, howitt and dewitt, and motorheads.(granted except for buscher's im betting few have heard of these shops.) I could have stopped in any of these shops on any working day and they would gladly bs with me for an hour or two on technical **** assuming they where not workin on a big project, or sometimes they would but there would often be long pauses when they had to concentrate on something. Hell the head guy at motorheads is who not only pointed out specifically what i needed to focus on when porting my heads he let me watch him port 3 sets over about two weeks. Thats the kind of thing we need from these shops, hell you can go to nre and they will give you any spec on there engine with no problem minus the turbo specs, project f bomb had cam specs in hot rod magazine. Even with alot of competition there will still be more volume then a couple shops can handle. =/

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Well no offense to anyone but this forum has a reputation for attacking shops that volunteer too much information, so I think that's why you don't have more activity. Like Honda2Nismo says, if you call and ask, I'm sure you'll get your answer.

I can say that Forged recommends Motul oils and 300v usually ends up in my motor if the car needs a refill. In UOA, 300v seems to come out ok - not great with the only unusual characteristic being very high levels of molybendum. While having lots of moly is great, I wasn't happy with the slightly higher than avg bearing wear - perhaps because it's so thick that cold starts are hard on the engine... (perhaps that's the same reason for the Mobil 1 15-50 performing worse than the 0-40). This last time around FP put 10W-40 Motul in, which I haven't tested and don't plan to. I have both Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT oil (5W-40) sitting here and one or the other is going in soon.

Chris, I think with the 10W-40 Motul oil in my motor at the moment, my idle sits around 28 psi with temps in the 200-210 range. Cold start is around 90 psi. Max while boosting is around 120 psi. What weight oil are you using right now?

qqqqball

iTrader: (10)

I've done some testing with oil analysis, mostly big block chevy's and minor on the z, i have found that the higher the detergent the lower the thermal break down temperature. for instance, bearings start to score with mobile 1 10-30 at 230 degrees when vr1 20-50 holds 260 all day long( 1/4 mile with pro street car). But they each have there pros and cons, But I have always been told by my motor guy, former owner of IN MOTION in L.I. that bearings dictate oil weight not temperature, there is an equation out there that allows you to factor in a n2o fogger/sprayer, f.i. component, and fuel type....if i find the link i will post it up. I use polaris Labs to do my analysis. most scoring can't be see on the bearings without a florescent penetrator test.. GL buying one they are money

IslandZavage

iTrader: (8)

This site is very good info, threads, information, tests, etc.... Hope this helps,,,

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

Well, I would like to point out that how a shop is in person or over the phone versus the forums is two completely different things. Some shops are more active and involved on the forums than others. And for various reasons, including the hostile environment Raj mentioned, some shops are not as active in the FI section as they used to be.

That being said though... I will say that the shops who are regularly active in the FI section are usually pretty quick to chime in with comments and opinions about turbo kits, engine components, supporting mods, engine management, etc... but are noticeably quiet and seemingly less opinionated about motor oil. If they can routinely chime in and be so opinionated about other things, I don't understand why they remain quiet in discussions about motor oil. It makes one wonder if they put as much thought and consideration into motor oil as they do other aspects of building & boosting a VQ.

ocdz

iTrader: (11)

I'm curious to know wtf you are from about because I lived 30 mins from buschur in wakeman and none of these other shops you rambled off are even on the map.

Also hasn't the oil debate been beaten to death already? there's 56+ pages in one thread alone let alone all the stuff on BITOG. If you take any one thing from the oil thread it is that everyone can have different results with a different oil. Shop's don't know something magical that you don't besides they may have taken more engines apart. I highly doubt a whole lot of them are pulling UOA from their cars on a regular basis just to try different oils.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

^ That 56+ page thread that you are referring to isn't specific to FI VQ's, especially built motor high power turbo setups. The UOA's and experiences of members who are still N/A or running stock blocks isn't very helpful or relevant to those with built motors pushing well in excess of 500whp. Apples to oranges IMO. Hence why I started a separate thread here in the FI section asking for shop input on the matter.

I find it hard to believe that the shops have nothing valuable or pertinent to add to the discussion. They have the benefit of volume and experience over a length of time that a member doesn't have with their singular Z or G. What's the harm in asking shops to post what oil(s) they use and recommend for built motors? It would be nice to have their recommendations contained in one thread and stickied here in the FI section.


FWIW, I contacted a shop today on AIM and asked what they use/recommend for their high power VQ and 2JZ builds. He simply stated, "just a good quality 20-50" with no indicated preference on brand name.

GBoger

I have been recommended eneos 0w50. I think many of the bigger shops you will see suggesting manufacturers they have deals with i.e. forged and motul