Did Project White Dragon Fail?
04-22-2011, 04:08 PM
#41
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Ha! What a tard!
04-23-2011, 09:00 AM
#44
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04-23-2011, 06:56 PM
#45
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The owner of the car won a lawsuit (settled) and was handed lots of $$$$. He is a tool and I have been calling him out on it since day 1. He talks alot but never seems to back up any of his claims online. That other forum is a bunch of fanbois that buy into his BS. Its pretty pathetic. But since everything gets deleted and brushed under the rug on that forum, I hardly even post anymore.
04-24-2011, 09:52 AM
#46
This is how I see it...
I don't care about power claims and component choices for this project. He helps keep people in business so they can churn out production parts for the masses. I don't have the financial means to support the VR38 retrofit project, but I'm thankful the owner stepped up to the plate. It may not be appealing for everyone, but this is what I've been waiting for. I already have the VR38 intake plenum and engine cover, and am coordinating the hardware purchase (Stage 1 TT, oil cooler, and EVC 6).
In recent news, the latest iteration of the prototype lower intake manifold fitment to the project car is good. However, the stock fuel rails won't fit the new design. Therefore, GTM is currently fabricating custom fuel rails. Once it is done, they will install it and fire up the car.
On the other hand, my car will only produce power in the range of 380-450whp (6-8 PSI) with the Stage 1 TT kit (nothing fancy). I think it would be neat-o to ditch the plastic plenum and replace it with a VR38 plenum. As long as it does not have detrimental effects, it is good in my books.
In recent news, the latest iteration of the prototype lower intake manifold fitment to the project car is good. However, the stock fuel rails won't fit the new design. Therefore, GTM is currently fabricating custom fuel rails. Once it is done, they will install it and fire up the car.
On the other hand, my car will only produce power in the range of 380-450whp (6-8 PSI) with the Stage 1 TT kit (nothing fancy). I think it would be neat-o to ditch the plastic plenum and replace it with a VR38 plenum. As long as it does not have detrimental effects, it is good in my books.
04-24-2011, 02:25 PM
#47
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We're not giving the shops a hard time, I understand the advantage that rich stupid people provide to the rest of us. They spend money being the guinea pigs that the rest of us can't afford to be.
At the end of the day, the shops are there to listen to what someone says they want, provide recommendations on how to accomplish that, and hopefully close the deal and provide it for a profit so that they can stay in business.
We're giving the guy a hard time for being so separated from reality, and for spending that much money in something that isn't an INVESTMENT (his mind), but is "spent money" (reality). I think that it's common knowledge that when you buy a car brand new, and drive it off the lot, that you can't bring it back 2 months later and expect to sell it without losing a significant value. Even more obvious than that should be that when you're dealing with aftermarket parts, that they don't increase the value of your car - and that their value drops even faster after they are used. The final point is that high end aftermarket parts have a finite audience that would consider buying them, and an even smaller finite market that would consider buying them used instead of new.
I would think that with a large/complicated build, that you'd be EXTREMELY lucky if you could even come out getting a quarter of your spent money back if you tried to sell. And I say "spent money", not MSRP of the parts. This guy seems to think that he can get something comparable to a small reduction off of MSRP for new parts and new car when both are now used - and haven't been proven to produce the results that he's been claiming.
Am I glad that rich idiots exist? Yes, because maybe the trickle down of their used parts will net me a good deal on something that I need. But am I grateful to the rich idiots? No, I'm thankful to the shops that listened to what he said he wanted and then provided it to him, regardless of how stupid he was.
At the end of the day, the shops are there to listen to what someone says they want, provide recommendations on how to accomplish that, and hopefully close the deal and provide it for a profit so that they can stay in business.
We're giving the guy a hard time for being so separated from reality, and for spending that much money in something that isn't an INVESTMENT (his mind), but is "spent money" (reality). I think that it's common knowledge that when you buy a car brand new, and drive it off the lot, that you can't bring it back 2 months later and expect to sell it without losing a significant value. Even more obvious than that should be that when you're dealing with aftermarket parts, that they don't increase the value of your car - and that their value drops even faster after they are used. The final point is that high end aftermarket parts have a finite audience that would consider buying them, and an even smaller finite market that would consider buying them used instead of new.
I would think that with a large/complicated build, that you'd be EXTREMELY lucky if you could even come out getting a quarter of your spent money back if you tried to sell. And I say "spent money", not MSRP of the parts. This guy seems to think that he can get something comparable to a small reduction off of MSRP for new parts and new car when both are now used - and haven't been proven to produce the results that he's been claiming.
Am I glad that rich idiots exist? Yes, because maybe the trickle down of their used parts will net me a good deal on something that I need. But am I grateful to the rich idiots? No, I'm thankful to the shops that listened to what he said he wanted and then provided it to him, regardless of how stupid he was.
Last edited by SparkleCityHop; 04-24-2011 at 02:27 PM.
04-24-2011, 04:42 PM
#50
The owner of the car won a lawsuit (settled) and was handed lots of $$$$. He is a tool and I have been calling him out on it since day 1. He talks alot but never seems to back up any of his claims online. That other forum is a bunch of fanbois that buy into his BS. Its pretty pathetic. But since everything gets deleted and brushed under the rug on that forum, I hardly even post anymore.
the_370z .com is a pathetic and worthless site that has nothing valuable to offer for an experienced VQ enthusiast. The admin over there is a corrupt money grubbing *****. He allowed Scott Bush (Relentless Autosports) on there as a vendor despite being warned/informed about his shadiness with the 350z/g35 community. Like you said, they delete and sweep a lot of the dirt under the carpet. I have a 370Z, but won't support that site because of all the epic fail and blind fanboyism over there.I don't care about power claims and component choices for this project. He helps keep people in business so they can churn out production parts for the masses. I don't have the financial means to support the VR38 retrofit project, but I'm thankful the owner stepped up to the plate. It may not be appealing for everyone, but this is what I've been waiting for. I already have the VR38 intake plenum and engine cover, and am coordinating the hardware purchase (Stage 1 TT, oil cooler, and EVC 6).
In recent news, the latest iteration of the prototype lower intake manifold fitment to the project car is good. However, the stock fuel rails won't fit the new design. Therefore, GTM is currently fabricating custom fuel rails. Once it is done, they will install it and fire up the car.
On the other hand, my car will only produce power in the range of 380-450whp (6-8 PSI) with the Stage 1 TT kit (nothing fancy). I think it would be neat-o to ditch the plastic plenum and replace it with a VR38 plenum. As long as it does not have detrimental effects, it is good in my books.
In recent news, the latest iteration of the prototype lower intake manifold fitment to the project car is good. However, the stock fuel rails won't fit the new design. Therefore, GTM is currently fabricating custom fuel rails. Once it is done, they will install it and fire up the car.
On the other hand, my car will only produce power in the range of 380-450whp (6-8 PSI) with the Stage 1 TT kit (nothing fancy). I think it would be neat-o to ditch the plastic plenum and replace it with a VR38 plenum. As long as it does not have detrimental effects, it is good in my books.
And why in the hell would you waste money on a VR38 intake manifold, which is absolutely unnecessary for your power goal of 380-450whp?
The stock intake manifold performs fine at that power level.https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...ming-soon.html
We're not giving the shops a hard time, I understand the advantage that rich stupid people provide to the rest of us. They spend money being the guinea pigs that the rest of us can't afford to be.
At the end of the day, the shops are there to listen to what someone says they want, provide recommendations on how to accomplish that, and hopefully close the deal and provide it for a profit so that they can stay in business.
We're giving the guy a hard time for being so separated from reality, and for spending that much money in something that isn't an INVESTMENT (his mind), but is "spent money" (reality). I think that it's common knowledge that when you buy a car brand new, and drive it off the lot, that you can't bring it back 2 months later and expect to sell it without losing a significant value. Even more obvious than that should be that when you're dealing with aftermarket parts, that they don't increase the value of your car - and that their value drops even faster after they are used. The final point is that high end aftermarket parts have a finite audience that would consider buying them, and an even smaller finite market that would consider buying them used instead of new.
I would think that with a large/complicated build, that you'd be EXTREMELY lucky if you could even come out getting a quarter of your spent money back if you tried to sell. And I say "spent money", not MSRP of the parts. This guy seems to think that he can get something comparable to a small reduction off of MSRP for new parts and new car when both are now used - and haven't been proven to produce the results that he's been claiming.
Am I glad that rich idiots exist? Yes, because maybe the trickle down of their used parts will net me a good deal on something that I need. But am I grateful to the rich idiots? No, I'm thankful to the shops that listened to what he said he wanted and then provided it to him, regardless of how stupid he was.
At the end of the day, the shops are there to listen to what someone says they want, provide recommendations on how to accomplish that, and hopefully close the deal and provide it for a profit so that they can stay in business.
We're giving the guy a hard time for being so separated from reality, and for spending that much money in something that isn't an INVESTMENT (his mind), but is "spent money" (reality). I think that it's common knowledge that when you buy a car brand new, and drive it off the lot, that you can't bring it back 2 months later and expect to sell it without losing a significant value. Even more obvious than that should be that when you're dealing with aftermarket parts, that they don't increase the value of your car - and that their value drops even faster after they are used. The final point is that high end aftermarket parts have a finite audience that would consider buying them, and an even smaller finite market that would consider buying them used instead of new.
I would think that with a large/complicated build, that you'd be EXTREMELY lucky if you could even come out getting a quarter of your spent money back if you tried to sell. And I say "spent money", not MSRP of the parts. This guy seems to think that he can get something comparable to a small reduction off of MSRP for new parts and new car when both are now used - and haven't been proven to produce the results that he's been claiming.
Am I glad that rich idiots exist? Yes, because maybe the trickle down of their used parts will net me a good deal on something that I need. But am I grateful to the rich idiots? No, I'm thankful to the shops that listened to what he said he wanted and then provided it to him, regardless of how stupid he was.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 04-24-2011 at 04:47 PM.
04-24-2011, 05:42 PM
#51
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^ Well said... except some of us are also giving GTM a hard time for fleecing this tard while continuing their typical style of marketing fluff and failed attempts to achieve 1000whp. But if you want a 1000whp dreamer thread full of hype... GTM is the best in the business at producing those.
I'm not sure whether the owner or GTM were the ones selling people, magazines, shows, etc. on it being a 1000whp car, but if it was the owner trying to show off and not GTM, it may not have been within their control. Since you guys would better know the reputation and history of the vendor, you know better than me what the likelihood was of it being the buyer, the vendor, or both.
04-24-2011, 07:23 PM
#52
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the_370z .com is a pathetic and worthless site that has nothing valuable to offer for an experienced VQ enthusiast. The admin over there is a corrupt money grubbing *****. He allowed Scott Bush (Relentless Autosports) on there as a vendor despite being warned/informed about his shadiness with the 350z/g35 community. Like you said, they delete and sweep a lot of the dirt under the carpet. I have a 370Z, but won't support that site because of all the epic fail and blind fanboyism over there.As for posting in that Venaci thread, I clearly told you DO NOT crap on another person's thread. If you REALLY want to share something to the forum members, make a new thread. By posting in that thread AGAIN, you have ignored my warning! Also, Vendors are the ones paying for the server for this forum NOT members. I honestly do appreciate the support from the premium members, but their $15 isn't going to run this forum more than few hours! So, I have to make sure vendors are selling their product, making profit and in return, giving forum the money to run the site. I'm not implying that I will keep a vendor that's shady. I have removed vendor before for other reasons. If you like, I can REMOVE all vendors from the site tomorrow if you're willing to pay all the server and domain charges.
There are PLENTY of members (or as you call them "whistle blowers") who has made their thread here on the forum and I usually give them their 15 minutes of fame and then close the thread. If you want to join the crown, feel free to make NEW threads to alert members. Do not go into someone's sale thread or other thread and make it off topic.
There are PLENTY of members (or as you call them "whistle blowers") who has made their thread here on the forum and I usually give them their 15 minutes of fame and then close the thread. If you want to join the crown, feel free to make NEW threads to alert members. Do not go into someone's sale thread or other thread and make it off topic.
Just an example of the BS and how the shady vendors pretty much run the site, including the owner of the "white dragon" and his company that produces replicas of other body kits and calls it "product development".
04-24-2011, 07:26 PM
#53
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Well, it's buyer beware unless they promised him the results. If they said "it should", or "we'll do our best", or said "as long as all of the supporting mods are available to support it", etc. they may have had the best of intentions of trying to get there, but never promised the guy that they would hit some arbitrary target hp number. Hell, even if they did promise a number, dynos can be adjusted/calibrated a lot of different ways and aren't meant to measure raw hp, but to compare changes before/after changes and to tune.
I'm not sure whether the owner or GTM were the ones selling people, magazines, shows, etc. on it being a 1000whp car, but if it was the owner trying to show off and not GTM, it may not have been within their control. Since you guys would better know the reputation and history of the vendor, you know better than me what the likelihood was of it being the buyer, the vendor, or both.
I'm not sure whether the owner or GTM were the ones selling people, magazines, shows, etc. on it being a 1000whp car, but if it was the owner trying to show off and not GTM, it may not have been within their control. Since you guys would better know the reputation and history of the vendor, you know better than me what the likelihood was of it being the buyer, the vendor, or both.
It was 95% owner and 5% GTM. There are plenty of posts in that build thread where he claimed it made 1000 whp and also first articles that came out stated that the owner gave them that little bit of information.
04-24-2011, 08:50 PM
#55
As for fan boy status? Barely... more like a hopeful. There are no installers and tuners in my area. While visiting my gf's family in Houston I found out about Baker Nissan. After a few phone calls, they mentioned installing and tuning GTM hardware so that's the direction I'm going with.
Would I go for GReddy? I don't mind if someone can install and give it an Uprev tune.
Last edited by DIGItonium; 04-25-2011 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Was out of line. O_o
04-24-2011, 09:32 PM
#56
Damn dude... That doesn't mean you have to be stuck dealing with GTM. Have you looked into SP Engineering? They did the Greddy install and testing on the 370Z in that link I posted. Also, Intense is only a 6 hour drive away. There is also JTran in the Houston area too. YOU HAVE OPTIONS.
Your email experience with Sam reminds me of that line from Alberto's video about not being able to get a "reach around from GTM for $7000".
Your email experience with Sam reminds me of that line from Alberto's video about not being able to get a "reach around from GTM for $7000".
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 04-24-2011 at 09:41 PM.
04-25-2011, 05:34 AM
#57
My last comment might be borderline TOU so it was removed. I'm not here to bash anyone. The WhiteDragon project is a conglomeration of ideas and is literally hardware pr0n. The overall car does not fit my taste, but that's my opinion. Working or not, it covers quite a bit of work including custom fabrication, engine build, control and management, and a bit of a Frankenstein work (parts mixing like the Honda days). It may be a FAIL to some, but a winner for the consumer especially with the build, parts, and tune are made available to the masses.
[OFFTOPIC]
I'm going to have Baker do the work since they are less than 20 min. from my gf's family, so it will be a convenient visit. (i.e., [cough] win-win if you get my drift).
The VR38 plenum is definitely overkill, and one may consider it an equivalent of slapping a Type-R emblem on my car. I'll admit this is the most "ricey" part of the build because it would look super cool in my eyes. This is the only bling in the engine bay. The MAF tubes will be black. The engine cover is OEM, so the overall look is pretty bland. However, I'm curious to see if there will be any improvements. Also, I have a hunch it will change the characteristic of the engine sound (i.e., there is a different tone at high RPM with the plastic plenum compared to the VQ35DE metal plenum).
BTW, we have the same car
[/OFFTOPIC]
[OFFTOPIC]
I'm going to have Baker do the work since they are less than 20 min. from my gf's family, so it will be a convenient visit. (i.e., [cough] win-win if you get my drift).
The VR38 plenum is definitely overkill, and one may consider it an equivalent of slapping a Type-R emblem on my car. I'll admit this is the most "ricey" part of the build because it would look super cool in my eyes. This is the only bling in the engine bay. The MAF tubes will be black. The engine cover is OEM, so the overall look is pretty bland. However, I'm curious to see if there will be any improvements. Also, I have a hunch it will change the characteristic of the engine sound (i.e., there is a different tone at high RPM with the plastic plenum compared to the VQ35DE metal plenum).
BTW, we have the same car
[/OFFTOPIC]
Last edited by DIGItonium; 04-25-2011 at 05:36 AM.
04-25-2011, 06:21 AM
#59
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Are there lessons that can be learned from a failed build and benefits to the community? Yes. But that is secondary and was not the goal of the build.
If you paid me $5k for a set of Volks with an agreed upon offset, size & style you wanted, and I shipped you a set of $100 ebay wheels with volk stickers - but the community saw how the thread progressed and learned not to buy from me because I'm shady - that would be FAIL, because the goal wasn't accomplished, even though the community benefited from the information. *EDIT* If you think this is WIN, please send $5k to my paypal, and let's do some business.
Last edited by SparkleCityHop; 04-25-2011 at 06:23 AM.
04-25-2011, 10:48 AM
#60
Understood. Maybe it's about how one handles the situation. Heck, I mishandled mine as well, but did not hesitate to send an apology. I lost a bit of patience from getting too excited about getting turbos. See you guys on the other side of the Internet!