selecting cams to match with sound performance tt kit
#1
selecting cams to match with sound performance tt kit
OK just finish doing the short block at sfr(speed force racing)
Turbo Tim and they Crew are all about big horse power numbers.
Any way I needed some advice on cams selection for my twin turbo build.
The Block is a 0.20=96mm on our cars.
sfr stage2 tomei con rods with l19 rod bolts.
Custom Knife edged crankshaft
Wiseco H.D extreme pistons
8:6:1
Coating on pistons
Still need to get the billet gurdle and oil pan and other misc.
I paid down on my heads still haven't gone tithe shop to see the engine since I dropped it off.
So I'll have pictures up soon no worries.
Heads are the sfr stage 3 bc internals
Oversize 1mm valves 5 angle valve job the works. These heads are good enough for 1000rwhp that's all I need also one of the best free flowing setup for vq motor i Initially wanted to stick with the tomei cams as I'm a big fan of their products and ran they header and pipes on my z and now swap them over to my g35.
So
My question to you guys are which cams should be better for the all around aspect. keep in mind the z will be driving maybe twice a week other than that she will be garaged and only drag / free way rolling as we do like to take road trips alot.
My options
Tim advice
Jwt c8 or
c9 which I heard is a bad *** cam
2nd was bc
Which is also good and I saw
A couple of known guys on here and around the way are running the stage 2 bc.
Tomei my favorite either I wanted to do 272 or jump to the 280
I will i obviously go with the 11.00 lift to accomendate the 1mm valves and ptv (piston to valve clearance)
Last but not least the Kellford cams
Honestly these are the most expensive out the group and also has a higher duration 288 Vs the ones above.
I never used a kellford product but heard good things about them also I see slot of Evo guys running these things putting down awesome power. 272 or 288
To try something different and to take my engine builder advice I was going to drop the tomei cams and jump on kellford Also Time recommend this as the last cam options.
I have about a week and half to make descion as they must matcthate heads and cam profile accordingly. Also these heads should flow 40percent more velocity than stock.
Yes u still have fuel and suspension and drive train mods left.
Lol help is greatly appreciated
Strickly vq no Chevy swaps
Turbo Tim and they Crew are all about big horse power numbers.
Any way I needed some advice on cams selection for my twin turbo build.
The Block is a 0.20=96mm on our cars.
sfr stage2 tomei con rods with l19 rod bolts.
Custom Knife edged crankshaft
Wiseco H.D extreme pistons
8:6:1
Coating on pistons
Still need to get the billet gurdle and oil pan and other misc.
I paid down on my heads still haven't gone tithe shop to see the engine since I dropped it off.
So I'll have pictures up soon no worries.
Heads are the sfr stage 3 bc internals
Oversize 1mm valves 5 angle valve job the works. These heads are good enough for 1000rwhp that's all I need also one of the best free flowing setup for vq motor i Initially wanted to stick with the tomei cams as I'm a big fan of their products and ran they header and pipes on my z and now swap them over to my g35.
So
My question to you guys are which cams should be better for the all around aspect. keep in mind the z will be driving maybe twice a week other than that she will be garaged and only drag / free way rolling as we do like to take road trips alot.
My options
Tim advice
Jwt c8 or
c9 which I heard is a bad *** cam
2nd was bc
Which is also good and I saw
A couple of known guys on here and around the way are running the stage 2 bc.
Tomei my favorite either I wanted to do 272 or jump to the 280
I will i obviously go with the 11.00 lift to accomendate the 1mm valves and ptv (piston to valve clearance)
Last but not least the Kellford cams
Honestly these are the most expensive out the group and also has a higher duration 288 Vs the ones above.
I never used a kellford product but heard good things about them also I see slot of Evo guys running these things putting down awesome power. 272 or 288
To try something different and to take my engine builder advice I was going to drop the tomei cams and jump on kellford Also Time recommend this as the last cam options.
I have about a week and half to make descion as they must matcthate heads and cam profile accordingly. Also these heads should flow 40percent more velocity than stock.
Yes u still have fuel and suspension and drive train mods left.
Lol help is greatly appreciated
Strickly vq no Chevy swaps
#6
Registered User
#7
New Member
iTrader: (18)
kelford 272 cams are a nice balance, but if you are on a tight time line you may be in trouble as it always seems to take time to get the kelford cams shipped in.
http://www.camshaftshop.com/products...tid=1083#specs
Provided this curve with twin GTX2867s and similar headwork as what you have planned:
http://www.camshaftshop.com/products...tid=1083#specs
Provided this curve with twin GTX2867s and similar headwork as what you have planned:
Last edited by rcdash; 01-25-2015 at 05:40 AM.
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#8
[QUOTE=che69velle;10535590]Stand alone or reflash? Are you using the 06 head?
I have the hks fcon right now and I have the Osiris.
I really want to get the haltech platinum for the future asap.
Yes this I will be utilizing the revup heads this is a revup motor.
. Turbo Tim will use the plugs to cap the back off for the exhaust cam sensor.
Tim also recommend that I don't use my f Con as it Needs a key to be unlocked and tuners don't have it he Recommend the Osiris
So I will switch to a haltech platinum in the future.
I have the hks fcon right now and I have the Osiris.
I really want to get the haltech platinum for the future asap.
Yes this I will be utilizing the revup heads this is a revup motor.
. Turbo Tim will use the plugs to cap the back off for the exhaust cam sensor.
Tim also recommend that I don't use my f Con as it Needs a key to be unlocked and tuners don't have it he Recommend the Osiris
So I will switch to a haltech platinum in the future.
#9
kelford 272 cams are a nice balance, but if you are on a tight time line you may be in trouble as it always seems to take time to get the kelford canoms shipped in.
http://www.camshaftshop.com/products...tid=1083#specs
Provided this curve with twin GTX2867s and similar headwork as what you have planned:
http://www.camshaftshop.com/products...tid=1083#specs
Provided this curve with twin GTX2867s and similar headwork as what you have planned:
yeah time will be fairly close if
I cannot provide Turbo Tim the right cams In time.
So +1 for kellfords
Also will these give me the nice aggressive idle.
Lol I love the way cams idle specially that vq.
272. Tomei 280.
272 .kellfords I think they even make 288. Aswell
Bc-stg 2 I forgot they specs already.
Jwt ( c)series
Not sure on duration but I can get those in time
#13
what turbos?
you are looking at pretty radical cams. unless you heard soundclips behind turbos, your cams will no sound like anything on the web.
The twin 61's👍👍👏 The long tube headers with 3inch dp
External waste gates.
As far as that .
you should also make sure that your block gets reclearanced for the oil squirters after install.
you are looking at pretty radical cams. unless you heard soundclips behind turbos, your cams will no sound like anything on the web.
The twin 61's👍👍👏 The long tube headers with 3inch dp
External waste gates.
As far as that .
you should also make sure that your block gets reclearanced for the oil squirters after install.
On that spoon of advice
Str8dum, is it possible to tap them for bigger threads or not needed?
Radical cams lol I'm not sure I heard some z's in person but most on Clips.
I'd prefer to have that
Oh sh"t it's still a v6 reaction
Honestly.👏
I' wanted to venture and jump to the 280"s as I wish I could find an Old thread from back in the day
For bigger fi. Cams
272 yes they are big /excellent but what do the other 2 offer our motors.
280 Vs 288 fi.
SpeC
Only one of these I ever heard was a memebe r on here who had his z done at GTM and what this guy had installed was the 288"s man that's sounded like pure sex .
Any body here that from our whips knows what's up.
And personally I hate the fact that
We lost alot of our good boosted z member to this ls swap trend.
😤😤
.
And on another note thx again str8dum for trying to help. 👍👍
Last edited by juelz86z3303; 01-29-2015 at 05:44 AM.
#16
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
**** man. Your posts are horrible to understand.
First off, what is this about having the short block done but you don't have the girdle yet.
You are gonna fawk yourself if you put the girdle on after everything's assembled. You will need the girdle on for line hone, and for bearing clearance/crank sizing. If you put it on later, it will probably yield a different squash on the main caps and you're fawked.
Next up. Camshafts. I wanted 288's too, but they're totally not necessary. Not only that, but from what Hal told me they will drive like a pig on the street, and are too peaky. The BC stage 3 272's are basically the same as the kelford's. I didn't want to wait for kelford's so I just got some BC stage 3's and springs drop shipped. You don't really need anything more than 264 to have better than most import head flow. With BC stage 3's you have 272 degrees, 11.6mm lift (which is more than what you can get even on a built up 2jz), and quite a nice sized valve (bigger than even built 2jz's).
288's just shift the band to the right even more, which is a good thing for making power (less load on rods because more power strokes at higher rpm per hp basically), BUT past 8k you're heading into rough territory for a v6.
You have a knife edged crank, which could have cost a pretty penny (or it could have been a hack job done by a dumb%%%) but that does little to calm down crank vibrations. Even at 8k you'll need an ATI super damper beyond just the girdle + arp mains. Next 8k is about as hard as you want to reliably push the rev-up oil pump. Push it further, and you'll get a cracked oil drive gear. That means NO OIL PRESSURE; catastrophic failure.
So to remedy that, you need a dry sump. So 288's could be worth it, if you're running up and above 8k, probably to 9k. But the extra 6-8 grand just for the engine... is it really worth it? Especially considering all the internals won't last as long? And the valve train you'd need for that too... You'd need the 288 cams, upgraded springs, probably some machine work for clearances (been a while since I wanted to buy them, only if they're more than 11.59mm lift), upgraded valves, probably would want to do some porting/polishing... Dry sump, and then yes you'd have a ton of gains up top.
You could go for a nismo oil pump, or machine a rev up pump, but I bet past 8500, theres plenty of aeration in the gear pump... But even that's about another grand.
Oh and you'd possibly need new main bearings... Because you didn't have the girdle on when you had it assembled...
So yeah you could do 288's. But there's nothing wrong with 272's. They'll be way more street-able (better midrange for the street), and they already have way way way better specs on our heads than most comparable import engines; 2jz's, ej25's, 4g63's, rb26, 1jz's, sr20's, ka24de's, ca18dets blah blah (leave out vtec bs). Our heads with a simple spring and cam, out flow all those. That's the true beauty most people completely overlook about the 350z/vq35. Hell even Scott Porter who ran 6.XX at 200+mph who uses billet vq35 blocks, uses reworked vq35 heads. Yeah they're seriously tooled up, but that engine makes real power.
If you think idle is important, cool. My 272's with a 4" straight pipe and the single turbo sounds plenty badass. Even the LEO's who came by on a noise ordinance complaint, asked to hear it, and thought it was cool. (before they told me not to take it out on the street or start it up anymore).
First off, what is this about having the short block done but you don't have the girdle yet.
You are gonna fawk yourself if you put the girdle on after everything's assembled. You will need the girdle on for line hone, and for bearing clearance/crank sizing. If you put it on later, it will probably yield a different squash on the main caps and you're fawked.
Next up. Camshafts. I wanted 288's too, but they're totally not necessary. Not only that, but from what Hal told me they will drive like a pig on the street, and are too peaky. The BC stage 3 272's are basically the same as the kelford's. I didn't want to wait for kelford's so I just got some BC stage 3's and springs drop shipped. You don't really need anything more than 264 to have better than most import head flow. With BC stage 3's you have 272 degrees, 11.6mm lift (which is more than what you can get even on a built up 2jz), and quite a nice sized valve (bigger than even built 2jz's).
288's just shift the band to the right even more, which is a good thing for making power (less load on rods because more power strokes at higher rpm per hp basically), BUT past 8k you're heading into rough territory for a v6.
You have a knife edged crank, which could have cost a pretty penny (or it could have been a hack job done by a dumb%%%) but that does little to calm down crank vibrations. Even at 8k you'll need an ATI super damper beyond just the girdle + arp mains. Next 8k is about as hard as you want to reliably push the rev-up oil pump. Push it further, and you'll get a cracked oil drive gear. That means NO OIL PRESSURE; catastrophic failure.
So to remedy that, you need a dry sump. So 288's could be worth it, if you're running up and above 8k, probably to 9k. But the extra 6-8 grand just for the engine... is it really worth it? Especially considering all the internals won't last as long? And the valve train you'd need for that too... You'd need the 288 cams, upgraded springs, probably some machine work for clearances (been a while since I wanted to buy them, only if they're more than 11.59mm lift), upgraded valves, probably would want to do some porting/polishing... Dry sump, and then yes you'd have a ton of gains up top.
You could go for a nismo oil pump, or machine a rev up pump, but I bet past 8500, theres plenty of aeration in the gear pump... But even that's about another grand.
Oh and you'd possibly need new main bearings... Because you didn't have the girdle on when you had it assembled...
So yeah you could do 288's. But there's nothing wrong with 272's. They'll be way more street-able (better midrange for the street), and they already have way way way better specs on our heads than most comparable import engines; 2jz's, ej25's, 4g63's, rb26, 1jz's, sr20's, ka24de's, ca18dets blah blah (leave out vtec bs). Our heads with a simple spring and cam, out flow all those. That's the true beauty most people completely overlook about the 350z/vq35. Hell even Scott Porter who ran 6.XX at 200+mph who uses billet vq35 blocks, uses reworked vq35 heads. Yeah they're seriously tooled up, but that engine makes real power.
If you think idle is important, cool. My 272's with a 4" straight pipe and the single turbo sounds plenty badass. Even the LEO's who came by on a noise ordinance complaint, asked to hear it, and thought it was cool. (before they told me not to take it out on the street or start it up anymore).
#17
Professional
iTrader: (2)
I have the JWT C8s (272 duration). They have a lot of lift (12 mm), but are only good to about 7200 rpms, per JWT. (I push them to about 7500 rpm, and have not seen any issues, but Jim Wolf advises only taking them to 7200). The Kelford or BC 272 cams have less lift (11 mm for the Kelfords, I don't remember the lift for the BCs), but will rev higher if that is what you want. With a lower opening rate, the buckets are less prone to launching off of the lobes.
One issue with the C8s is idle when they are used on a low compression motor. I have 8.5:1 static compression, and I had a lot of idle issues using the F-CON VPro. I even played with the stock ECU using Osiris to align its settings around idle to the F-CON. It helped, but still I could not get it perfectly dialed in. If I had it holding idle with the A/C off, then it would not hold idle with the A/C on when decelerating to a stop, and vice versa. I switched to the Haltech Platinum Pro, completely eliminating the stock ECU, and now it idles well and never stalls. My idle, however, is set to 1000 rpm. It doesn't like to idle below that. I suspect idle with the C9s (283.5 duration and 13.11 mm lift) will be an even greater issue if you are running a low compression motor.
The upside to the C8s is that with their 12 mm lift, they flow very well. On my 4.0L motor, I have something like 565 ft. lb. torque at spring W/G pressure, somewhere around 9 psi.
One issue with the C8s is idle when they are used on a low compression motor. I have 8.5:1 static compression, and I had a lot of idle issues using the F-CON VPro. I even played with the stock ECU using Osiris to align its settings around idle to the F-CON. It helped, but still I could not get it perfectly dialed in. If I had it holding idle with the A/C off, then it would not hold idle with the A/C on when decelerating to a stop, and vice versa. I switched to the Haltech Platinum Pro, completely eliminating the stock ECU, and now it idles well and never stalls. My idle, however, is set to 1000 rpm. It doesn't like to idle below that. I suspect idle with the C9s (283.5 duration and 13.11 mm lift) will be an even greater issue if you are running a low compression motor.
The upside to the C8s is that with their 12 mm lift, they flow very well. On my 4.0L motor, I have something like 565 ft. lb. torque at spring W/G pressure, somewhere around 9 psi.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 02-02-2015 at 09:28 AM.
#18
Professional
iTrader: (2)
(Cont.)
There is one thing that may be in the Kelford's favor with regard to idle, the 272 duration cam's (T-189-B unless they changed their part numbers since the last time I looked) exhaust lobe center is about 116 deg. before top dead center (TDC), whereas the C8's is 112 deg. That means that with the Kelfords there is less overlap at TDC. Combined with the lower lift, the dynamic compression will be a little higher with the Kelfords than with the C8s. We measured my dynamic compression with the C8s to be somewhere around 7.7:1 (again, my static compression is 8.5:1). It is my understanding that the low dynamic compression makes the idle a bit rougher and harder to dial in.
If you are going to stick with the F-Con for a while, and you want 272 duration cams, I would go with the Kelford cams (or BC cams). If you will be changing to the Haltech very soon, then it depends on how high you will be revving the motor. The lower lift Kelfords and BCs will be able to rev higher before the buckets launch off of the lobes. I have heard of people taking them to 8500 rpm, though I don't know what they are actually spec'd for. As Resmarted stated, beyond 8000 rpm is rough territory for a VQ. If you won't be going over about 7200 rpm, the C8s flow very well.
There is one thing that may be in the Kelford's favor with regard to idle, the 272 duration cam's (T-189-B unless they changed their part numbers since the last time I looked) exhaust lobe center is about 116 deg. before top dead center (TDC), whereas the C8's is 112 deg. That means that with the Kelfords there is less overlap at TDC. Combined with the lower lift, the dynamic compression will be a little higher with the Kelfords than with the C8s. We measured my dynamic compression with the C8s to be somewhere around 7.7:1 (again, my static compression is 8.5:1). It is my understanding that the low dynamic compression makes the idle a bit rougher and harder to dial in.
If you are going to stick with the F-Con for a while, and you want 272 duration cams, I would go with the Kelford cams (or BC cams). If you will be changing to the Haltech very soon, then it depends on how high you will be revving the motor. The lower lift Kelfords and BCs will be able to rev higher before the buckets launch off of the lobes. I have heard of people taking them to 8500 rpm, though I don't know what they are actually spec'd for. As Resmarted stated, beyond 8000 rpm is rough territory for a VQ. If you won't be going over about 7200 rpm, the C8s flow very well.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 02-02-2015 at 09:32 AM.