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I've recently built a twin turbo kit for my 350 im in the uk so was abit of a challenge finding parts & help regarding the build.
Any ways it's been on for a year no troubles really apart from I'm getting oil backing up in the turbos. I had them rebuilt before being fitted so I know that's not the problem. I've also fitted a small catch tank that they both drain into & then the scavenge pump pulls the oil from there & takes it back to the sump.
My trouble is I was thinking if the pump can suck the tank out quick enough or do I need a breather/vent in the tank?
Also does it matter where or how far away the pump is mounted? It's currently in place of the air con pump so has about a 2 foot line to pull the oil from the turbo drain and then a short 6" line to the sump. It's the same setup as in the picture basically.
where & how are you depositing oil back into the pan - oil pan spacer?
I ran pumps similar to yours and member Kilo mentioned that pumps are efficient pushing fluids and inefficient at pulling fluids...I pulled the pumps and also tapped into my upper oil pan and my smoking/oil backing up issues went away -
Yes they sit a lot lower because of the manifolds and issues I had with it being a right hand drive.
The scavenge pump is mounted up front in place of the air con pump and this sucks the fluids from the tank and then puts them back in place to the spacer plate at the bottom of the sump.
It seemed it had been working ok just not enough to keep up with the supply
It seemed it had been working ok just not enough to keep up with the supply
equals not good...oil is livelyhood of your turbos...if your turbos fail then your engine will fail.
I also would tap into your upper oil pan and not the spacer ... youre fighting the static oil in your pan when you deposit back into the pan via a spacer.
your pump is inefficient at pulling oil from the tank and depositing it back in the pan - if it was me I'd hook your blowers directly up to a tapped port in your upper oil pan (above the static oil level)...
Unfortunately they can't be connected straight into the block as they are so low the gravity feed will be above the drain and it will just sit there and backup.
Also at the moment it's tapped into the spacer as that's where jwt recommend placing it so just going by them. It was originally a jwt kit adapted to fit rhd car.
I've now redesigned a larger tank and moved the pump lower so it's level/lower then the drain so this should improve flow as hasn't got to suck it up an incline.
youre missing the point...your pump is your problem...pumps dont 'pull' fluid well ... so in reality your pump is getting in the way...
I understand your blowers are low and your oil exit point may be below the oil level but remember that your engine is driving your oil pump which is pushing oil at 60 to 120 psi ... 60 psi is plenty of pressure to push oil out of your blower and up into the oil pan...
prove me wrong ... unhook your surge tank, unhook your pump and run your scavenge lines from the blowers directly to your oil pan spacer and see if your outcome is different ... when you see an improvement go tap your oil pan and move the deposit point slightly above the static oil level...
What scavenge pump is being used? Scavenge pumps all pull so not sure what you mean by pump is the problem bealljk. If it is rated 2 GPM or higher (smallest STS pump), it will output enough PSI to pull from below the pump and pump into static oil pressure no problem. My small STS pump is on the frame rail above the turbos. I do feed into the upper oil pan. No problems going on 2 years.
I believe the issue is a missing 1 psi check valve on the oil feed line to prevent oil from flowing thru the system when the engine is turned off. Another way to solve the issue is a Hella delay relay (or any turbo timer for that matter) that will run the oil scavenge pump for a minute after the car is turned off.
By the way, scavenge pumps fail if debris gets into them. I run a pre-turbo oil feed filter and monitor turbo intake oil pressures. Change it out once per year and I do see a few carbon specks. If the pump is failing then that may explain why you are seeing issues now and not before. I would recommend a Turbo Werx Exapump or RB Racing STS pump. I would also recommend a forced performance turbo inline oil filter. If you have ball-bearing turbos, I presume you have the proper oil restrictors in place. The forced performance filter comes in 2 versions, one for journal bearing turbos, and a smaller exit orifice version for ball bearing.
^I ran pumps to pull oil from the blowers and push through a cooler before returning oil to the pan via a spacer and my exhaust smoked enough for me to noticed. I took the pumps out deposited via tapping the upper oil pan and the problem went away...
I'll stop harping the OP on the pumps and reiterate that he should simply take the surge tank and pumps out of the equation and see how the car performs...
If you keep doing what you've always done then you'll always get what you've always got...
Thanks for your replies guys, I'm only basing it on the fact the sfr twin low mount kit has a scavenge pump and a tank and I copied that idea.
Your theory makes sense about it pushing oil through but originally I had it like that drains into a y piece and plumbed into the same spacer port and it pooled up big time! Literally backing up out the turbos and pushing past the exhaust gasket to leak from downpipe.
So your option there is no good. Also when the engine is turned off any oil left in the line would just run backwards and fill turbos again.
I do have restrictors on each turbo inlet, no filters though or check valves. I did think perhaps a turbo timer would cure the problem as will leave the pump on running for longer period of time.
I will check out if I need to tap above the oil pan perhaps that's my problem. I did send both crank case breathers to atmosphere with filters as was worried it might have too much casing pressure.
you are pumping oil, doesnt matter where it returns to. I've had an exa-pump on my SFR kit since 2009. I return right to the oil pan spacer. I have a check valve between the oil pan and the pump.
My sump is vented as to not create a vaccum in the sump tank, since the exa-pump pulls 3gpm. If your sump has sufficient volume there is no way it backing up into the turbos.
you are pumping oil, doesnt matter where it returns to. I've had an exa-pump on my SFR kit since 2009. I return right to the oil pan spacer. I have a check valve between the oil pan and the pump.
My sump is vented as to not create a vaccum in the sump tank, since the exa-pump pulls 3gpm. If your sump has sufficient volume there is no way it backing up into the turbos.
i'd put in a check valve and vent your sump.
Thanks for the reply, where does your vent on the sump tank go? Does it just run say a 5mm silicone hose up high so it can't drip out ?
^ u can do that or u can put a 1 psi check valve in the OIL FEED so that when the engine is turned off the oil does not keep flowing, which will go out the seals as it backs up. Like str8dum I also have a high flow check valve between the output of the scavenge pump and the oil pan (mostly to prevent reverse flow with the engine off).
either will work (and this is the reason I suspect bealljk had problems with the setup also)
My reservoirs (same design as the BP turbo kits) are tiny square tubing. Sasha tried vents but found later they were not necessary - the 1 psi feed valve check valve did the trick. I don't think I have the volume that you and str8dum1 have in the oil reservoir (so overflow after the engine off may be a bigger issue for me). ANyway I have no smoking!
You do not need a vent on your reservoir, you do not need to run your return line above the oil level in the oil pan, and once the pump gears are primed (after oil goes through it for the first time) the pump will draw a significant amount of vacuum.
As rcdash already mentioned, you need a mechanical low pressure check valve on your inlet.
You do not need a vent on your reservoir, you do not need to run your return line above the oil level in the oil pan, and once the pump gears are primed (after oil goes through it for the first time) the pump will draw a significant amount of vacuum.
As rcdash already mentioned, you need a mechanical low pressure check valve on your inlet.
I'm running a AN-3 braided line, that connects to the oil filter housing via a t-piece. Do you recommend fitting the t-piece there or half way in the line say?
09-05-2016, 02:42 AM
Scavenge pump help
