nissanZdriver

I plan on replaceing the bushings as well over the winter because I also believe its a bushing issue. But now that i put the car away for the winter I wont be able to post results anytime soon.

Im not a suspension engineer, but ive been reading and thinking about this issue alot and heres how i feel.
I think if they designed the 350z with a double wishbone set up, we wouldnt have this issue. The 370z has a double wish bone. So maybe nissan resolved the issue with there new designed Z? Ive been looking at diagrams and pics of the 350z suspension and I just dont think the single length LCA and compression rod with a rbig rubber bushing are strong or sturdy enough to keep the suspension from flexing or changed its geometry. It looks as if you were to brake or turn hard the LCA and compression rod assy could shift in a front to back motion. With a wishbone style LCA, there are 2 strong mounting points that connect to the chassis and are more stable. So i'm thinking with stronger bushings installed the lower part of the suspension will have less movement.

When I first lowered my civic I had bad inner tire wear due to my toe setting being off. But the wear wasnt choppy, it was an even wear. So i dont believe this is a toe issue. I cant really see it being a camber issue. Hell our back wheels have just as much camber and the toe specs are about the same as the front. Yet my rear tires look and are wearing perfectly.

Oh, and I looked into other suspensions using compression rods. And other manufactures have the CR rod bushing mounted horizontally, so that the rod moves up and down with the suspension. Yet ours is mounted vertically and its putting all this stress on the bushing. I dont know? maybe I dont know what im talking about, but something is not right.

DaveJackson

iTrader: (5)

Any further updates?

nissanZdriver

Along with the compression rod, I'm also going to install adjustable front upper control arms. Because as I'm searching this issue and reading posts around different nissan sites. The posts about fixing the front negative camber improves or eliminates the feathering, here are some post i just copied and pasted. Theres even a post on this thread on page 203, thread #4042. where someone wrote, after installing front control arms he has no more feathering!!

Here are other posts I found while searching the web:

Post 1
"He said to note that he dialed in increased toe in the front to compensate for the negative camber and tire wear."

That's the problem!

playing with the toe to compensate for the camber!

you must adjust the toe before you adjust the camber, but since the camber cant be adjusted on a stock car the toe is played with to compensate. well i had just talked to my buddy who used to do alignments and he said that that is just STUPID!

He said to ket the front camber kit and get it aligned.

the feathering should go away and you should only have "some" camber wear due to the nature of the car having to have negative camber stock.

I used to get feathering on my civic back in the day and all went away with a camber kit.

THANKS NISSAN for making us buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem."

Post 2 I had the roar problem and got it fixed. The problem is a design flaw in the suspension that makes it impossible to adjust camber. I too was grinding through tires and alignments panicking at the thought of buying new tires every 4,000 miles thus putting myself in the poor house.

Called a local mechanic who specializes in Z's all the way back to the 240. Told him the problem, he called me back in 20 minutes and said, "You need upper control arms that let you adjust camber. He recommended, and I researched on this site the SPL Front Upper Control Arms (street spec) for $550. He installed them, did a four wheel alignment and $300 in labor later I was on the road.

Post 3 No more 'cupping', 'feathering' or unusual tire
wear on my 2005 350z after installing Stillen 'front
camber adjusters', 'rear camber adjusters', and
'rear toe arms'.

That was after the Stealer replaced the tires three
times and supposedly did an alignment. An
alignment on these Z's means toe adjustment,
that's it.

I had the shop reduce the negative camber
(front and rear). She's smooth, no more tire roar,
and using stock Bridgestone tires and rims.

Heritage

iTrader: (3)

Final Update from me:

I have no more saw-toothing/cupping of my tires after about 20k miles since install. I did go with a cheap set of tires (Accelera - just for this experiment - though the tires are surprisingly good for the money). The bushings were replaced with polyurethane and I had an alignment done.

This confirms, at least to me anyway, that the weakness was the soft bushings. I see little difference in ride quality with the harder bushings, though with 245/35/19 front and 275/35/19 rears, the ride quality is more affected with the wheel/tire choice than the bushings. The steering response is a bit better.

The Accelera tire has a solid inner tread block, and isn't prone to cupping anyway, but there is NO additional road noise after 20k miles, and I am happy with the result (though these tires are more prone to chasing cracks and grooves than the T1Rs they replaced, and they're not as good in the wet).

DaveJackson

iTrader: (5)

Excellent update! Thank you.

mf01

What bushings did you purchase?

yocalebo

I have an '06 RevUp with about 109k miles. It's my daily driver and I just replaced the clutch/flywheel and transmission. While I was under my car, I noticed that my front wheels were feathering pretty hard on the inside of both of my tires.

Of course, as I was breaking in the new transmission and was listening to the car I noticed the tire noise that everyone in this thread is discussing. I, however, played it off to be a wheel-bearing going out but I'm having 2nd thoughts and don't want to spend $250-$300 and 1 weekend replacing my wheel bearings if that's not the issue.....

Anyways, I'm seeing people replace front-upper control arms to adjust the camber to compensate for the toe-in, and some just replacing the bushings to ones that are a little harder and some just rotating tires and getting an alignment.

This is all a little over-whelming and don't know where to start. Should I just try an alignment and check the tires or should I go all out and get front-upper control arms and bushings. My suspension and wheels are stock.

kno

iTrader: (22)

I recomend to buy a arms and take it to get aligned you will solve the issue in o e shot and not deal with the headache or aligning over and over and to keep track of the tires after.

mf01

What adjustable control arms are recommended? I've seen Megan, SPC, and Kinetix.

Tony1M

After having satisfied myself of the availability of OEM and aftermarket parts for an '03 or '04 Z, I received a photo of the front tires on a low-mile '04 that I believe shows the typical feathering tire wear (FTW) that this thread is all about. This is the second Z where we've seen this.

This FTW is the one and only issue that's holding me back from purchasing a Z.

I've never owned a vehicle that needed any special care or maintenance when it came to tire wear. For example, I had our 1992 Accord aligned only twice during the 22 years we owned it, and that was because I had replaced either upper or lower control arms, inner or outer tie rod ends, etc., but never for tire wear, even before it became obvious that those suspension parts needed replacement. It was always the handling of the vehicle that indicated that suspension parts needed replacement, never tire wear. With proper rotation, tires on that vehicle lasted their full normal life expectancy, no matter what the condition of the suspension parts.

However, this will be the first (and probably last) "sports car" that either my wife or I will ever own, so maybe we should expect this type of issue with any such vehicle. (But even though the generation 5 and newer Corvettes have an incredibly long list of potential electronic-reliability and mechanical issues of all kinds, to my knowledge, FTW is not one of them.)

Somehow I've got to determine before purchasing one, how much of a hassle and expense it will be to eliminate FTW on a 350Z and not hear that low-speed "roar".

As a result of reading much of this thread I understand that FTW is mostly caused by incorrect toe-in or toe-out, but some owners report that camber can be at least somewhat at fault; and because the 350Z's OEM upper control arm does not allow camber adjustment, an aftermarket, camber-adjustable arm must be installed in order to do that. (Doing this is apparently a necessity for owners who want to "lower" there vehicles, which we don't.)

What I need to know is whether an alignment performed by Nissan, or the installation of these adjustable arms, or even both, will completely eliminate FTW and the accompanying hassle and noise. If yes, we will buy a Z and I will install the arms myself and then take it to Nissan for a proper alignment.

I'd really appreciate reading what current owners are experiencing with respect to FTW -- specifically,

1. Does your Z presently show feathering tire wear (FTW)?

2. If your vehicle at one time had FTW and you were able to eliminate it, what measures did you take to do so?

3. If your vehicle had FTW and you took measures to eliminate it that have so far been unsuccessful, what were those measures and what, if any, measures will you take in the future to eliminate it?

4. How often have you found it necessary to get your vehicle's wheels aligned?

Thanks.

rizeld

iTrader: (2)

I'm no mechanic or expert but everything is fixable. Just depends on how much you want to spend. The real question is what are your plans with the car? Daily, track, project, street racer, drifter, demolition derby? Answer that first than you can figure out what you want to do.

Tony1M

Occasional "normal" driving only during the summer that will put on probably under 2k miles per year. No track. No project. No street racing. No demolition derby ()! Occasional straignt-on WOT take-off from traffic light (when my wife is not in the vehicle). That's it.

I would be more than willing to shell out for the cost of a pair of Kinetix, or even SPL, upper arms and other suspension replacement bushings and an alignment at Nissan, but I have to have some confidence that taking these measures will result in a vehicle that does not have FTW. I don't relish the thought of having to do an annual alignment, but I think I can live with that in order to enjoy the great drivng experience that the Z delivers. Never ending problems with FTW I can and will not.

My investigation of this issue has reminded me of something that I thought I had long ago forgotten. In about 1997 my wife and I were seriously considering the purchase of a 1992 Mercedes 500SEL. Before making that purchase I went through the same process that I am now with respect to the Z, only back then the internet was far from what it is today. Information was far more difficult to obtain. But I was able to determine that that vehicle had a tire wear problem that I am reminded of today.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...***-vibrations
AFAIK, that problem was not fixable in that modle year, regardless of how much one spent on it. We did not buy a 1992 500SEL.

rizeld

iTrader: (2)

Oh my goodness. 2k miles a year!? Why are we even talking about this than

G35Black6MT

Because someone has too...

Fox Z

Answers:

1. no (but it did)
2. adjustable control arms front and rear, new bushings, rear toe bolts
3. n/a
4. only once since installing #2 above...but I only drive about 4k/year

In my experience, it can be corrected. Having someone who knows what they are doing actually perform the alignment is really important.

royblackwood

For what it's worth,I installed high mileage ,500 utog tires and don't have wear problems. I know everybody will flame this idea but there's plenty of traction for me driving this car as a daily driver.

Tony1M

Thanks very much! That's exactly the kind of input I need.

As a "reward", I will give you the opportunity to answer four more questions.

1. What brand arms and bushings did you install?

2 & 3. You say that you had only one alignment since installing the suspension parts. Does that number include the one immediately after the new suspension parts installation, or have you also had another one done at some point after that initial alignment? If you had one at some point after the intial one, how many miles after the intial one, and did the technician tell you that the vehicle was out of alignment before starting the last alignment?

4. You say that your vehicle's tires do not show FTW at present. Will you ever get another "pre-emptive" alignment if your tires do not show unusual wear as you pile on the miles, or will you "just let it ride" until if and when they do?

Thanks again.

Thanks! No doubt I will have to make a tire choice at some point down the road and it's good to know what other people recommend, particularly if they resist FTW, regardless of their intended use or reputation.

Why did you choose those particular tires and do you have a link to them?

Thanks again.

Fox Z

4 more questions -it's my lucky day!

1. Kinetix arms and SPL bushings
2 and 3. One alignment after install and have not needed one since.
4. I do not plan to get a pre-emptive alignment for two reasons: 1. the tires look great (Nitto Motivo) and 2. I am about to put the car up for sale.

Hope the helps.

Tony1M

It does! Thanks!

Now you're free to go.

DaveJackson

iTrader: (5)

All great questions except that at 2k per year, the rubber in your tires will expire naturally long before your feathering becomes a significant issue if your alignment is reasonable to begin with. Do not let this stop you from buying a Z.