New NA Build for my G35 Coupe!
08-06-2009, 07:01 AM
#102
_jb, just catching up on your thread. I'm surprised at the driveability issues with the Haltech. Wish you had let me know - would've been happy to help you with your map. Did you try MAF with the Haltech by any chance? Other than my car being too loud, it drives very much like stock at low rpms (before turbos kick in) - very smoothly. I expanded the resolution of my map to max - were you using 32 x 32? The hardest last bit of fine tuning was transient throttle, but even that can be dialed in. Cold starts and warm starts are a non-issue for me at any temperature. Of course, a little tweaking helped there also. I found that hot start issues usually stem from too much fuel and cold start too little.
I haven't played with Osiris too much, but on the Haltech for a hot start issue (assuming you have something similar in Osiris), you want to decrease the prime pulse to just a few ms and make sure cranking injector time is not much more than 50%-100% of your IPW at around 1000rpms (at idle load). If the car starts then dies, then you can adjust coolant temp related post-start enrichment or the time related post-start enrichment depending on whether you feel it is temperature dependent.
I think you should be able to get Osiris (or Haltech) to work perfectly.
I haven't played with Osiris too much, but on the Haltech for a hot start issue (assuming you have something similar in Osiris), you want to decrease the prime pulse to just a few ms and make sure cranking injector time is not much more than 50%-100% of your IPW at around 1000rpms (at idle load). If the car starts then dies, then you can adjust coolant temp related post-start enrichment or the time related post-start enrichment depending on whether you feel it is temperature dependent.
I think you should be able to get Osiris (or Haltech) to work perfectly.
Last edited by rcdash; 08-06-2009 at 07:05 AM.
08-08-2009, 06:48 PM
#104
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I thought the Cosworth plenum would increase the power in higher RPM ranges and instead it increased torque dramatically and moved the horsepower peak down by about 700 RPM. It wasn't what I was really expecting.
08-08-2009, 07:21 PM
#106
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_jb, just catching up on your thread. I'm surprised at the driveability issues with the Haltech. Wish you had let me know - would've been happy to help you with your map. Did you try MAF with the Haltech by any chance? Other than my car being too loud, it drives very much like stock at low rpms (before turbos kick in) - very smoothly. I expanded the resolution of my map to max - were you using 32 x 32?
I took it back to PF once and also talked to Hal about it a few times. Never could get it to smooth out though. It seemed like the RevUp DBW wasn't giving up control to the Haltech. Once Jeremy moved, I decided to remove the Haltech and tune it completely with Osiris.
I underestimated the difficulty of tuning a NA VQ build like mine with Osiris. Adding different cams and changing things like MAF tube sizes makes it much more difficult to tune.
I haven't played with Osiris too much, but on the Haltech for a hot start issue (assuming you have something similar in Osiris), you want to decrease the prime pulse to just a few ms and make sure cranking injector time is not much more than 50%-100% of your IPW at around 1000rpms (at idle load). If the car starts then dies, then you can adjust coolant temp related post-start enrichment or the time related post-start enrichment depending on whether you feel it is temperature dependent.
Once my car starts now (and doesn't stall)... It runs perfectly. It doesn't jerk driving down the road... something that was very annoying... and it just takes time... seems to run great... I'm still learning about a lot of this stuff.
So do I... I just haven't been able to do it yet...
08-09-2009, 01:28 PM
#107
_jb, IPW is injector pulse width. On Osiris I think you're tuning by VE, but that's just another unit of measure. Haltech gives you the option to switch back and forth, but if you want the option of using MAF, you cannot use VE tuning (not sure why, but hence I don't as using IPW has no restrictions).
Ivory, I learned a lot from Sharif and Hal, and from reading.
I have continued to get a professional tune every time the car gets a major modification (exhaust change, cat removal, torque converter change, etc). But I do like to learn from that process.
I did spend a good bit of time tweaking the car for perfect efficiency and driveability, not so much performance (which Sharif took care of). And Haltech comes out with updates and I like to take advantage of them, so...
I don't change the timing because I don't have access to a load based dyno (which is very nice to have for this) and that map has already been tweaked by Sharif. So I just play around with everything else (fueling at vacuum/part throttle, traction control, boost control, transient throttle, etc). I'm very comfortable tuning based on my Haltech data logs. The Haltech provides several different ways to accomplish the same thing (many axes are configurable and there are so many CAN channels etc). I've learned a lot about more advanced tuning topics thanks to the Haltech's feature set. You can change most things without messing up the tune. The Haltech is very good about that. For example, _jb you could have gone from whatever size map you had to 32 x 32 and Haltech would have filled out the new cells correctly with no effort on your part.
I have an aquamist HSF-6 coming in soon. I've been debating whether I should take a crack at setting up that tune entirely on my own. Not sure just yet. I only have access to a Dynojet, not a DD dyno. I think I could, but my time is so limited and there is no substitute for experience. I know I would spend just as much money on dyno time as just having Sharif provide me another map, so it's not a cost issue. Sharif is very efficient - I've sat in the passenger seat and watched. I saw and was familiar with what he was doing to smooth out the curve, but I would spend 2 to 3 times as long dialing the car in on the dyno. And time is money too.
Ivory, I learned a lot from Sharif and Hal, and from reading.
I have continued to get a professional tune every time the car gets a major modification (exhaust change, cat removal, torque converter change, etc). But I do like to learn from that process. I did spend a good bit of time tweaking the car for perfect efficiency and driveability, not so much performance (which Sharif took care of). And Haltech comes out with updates and I like to take advantage of them, so...
I don't change the timing because I don't have access to a load based dyno (which is very nice to have for this) and that map has already been tweaked by Sharif. So I just play around with everything else (fueling at vacuum/part throttle, traction control, boost control, transient throttle, etc). I'm very comfortable tuning based on my Haltech data logs. The Haltech provides several different ways to accomplish the same thing (many axes are configurable and there are so many CAN channels etc). I've learned a lot about more advanced tuning topics thanks to the Haltech's feature set. You can change most things without messing up the tune. The Haltech is very good about that. For example, _jb you could have gone from whatever size map you had to 32 x 32 and Haltech would have filled out the new cells correctly with no effort on your part. I have an aquamist HSF-6 coming in soon. I've been debating whether I should take a crack at setting up that tune entirely on my own. Not sure just yet. I only have access to a Dynojet, not a DD dyno. I think I could, but my time is so limited and there is no substitute for experience. I know I would spend just as much money on dyno time as just having Sharif provide me another map, so it's not a cost issue. Sharif is very efficient - I've sat in the passenger seat and watched. I saw and was familiar with what he was doing to smooth out the curve, but I would spend 2 to 3 times as long dialing the car in on the dyno. And time is money too.
Last edited by rcdash; 08-09-2009 at 01:41 PM.
08-13-2009, 01:51 PM
#108
_jb, looks like my intake is going to be very similar to yours now. I just got the got the cosworth as well and will get it installed and tuned this month. Hopefully the outcome of my results will help you troubleshoot your issues. I'll keep you updated.
08-13-2009, 05:16 PM
#109
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_jb, IPW is injector pulse width. On Osiris I think you're tuning by VE, but that's just another unit of measure. Haltech gives you the option to switch back and forth, but if you want the option of using MAF, you cannot use VE tuning (not sure why, but hence I don't as using IPW has no restrictions).
Ivory, I learned a lot from Sharif and Hal, and from reading. I have continued to get a professional tune every time the car gets a major modification (exhaust change, cat removal, torque converter change, etc). But I do like to learn from that process.
I did spend a good bit of time tweaking the car for perfect efficiency and driveability, not so much performance (which Sharif took care of). And Haltech comes out with updates and I like to take advantage of them, so... I don't change the timing because I don't have access to a load based dyno (which is very nice to have for this) and that map has already been tweaked by Sharif. So I just play around with everything else (fueling at vacuum/part throttle, traction control, boost control, transient throttle, etc). I'm very comfortable tuning based on my Haltech data logs. The Haltech provides several different ways to accomplish the same thing (many axes are configurable and there are so many CAN channels etc). I've learned a lot about more advanced tuning topics thanks to the Haltech's feature set. You can change most things without messing up the tune. The Haltech is very good about that. For example, _jb you could have gone from whatever size map you had to 32 x 32 and Haltech would have filled out the new cells correctly with no effort on your part.
I have an aquamist HSF-6 coming in soon. I've been debating whether I should take a crack at setting up that tune entirely on my own. Not sure just yet. I only have access to a Dynojet, not a DD dyno. I think I could, but my time is so limited and there is no substitute for experience. I know I would spend just as much money on dyno time as just having Sharif provide me another map, so it's not a cost issue. Sharif is very efficient - I've sat in the passenger seat and watched. I saw and was familiar with what he was doing to smooth out the curve, but I would spend 2 to 3 times as long dialing the car in on the dyno. And time is money too.
Ivory, I learned a lot from Sharif and Hal, and from reading.
I have continued to get a professional tune every time the car gets a major modification (exhaust change, cat removal, torque converter change, etc). But I do like to learn from that process. I did spend a good bit of time tweaking the car for perfect efficiency and driveability, not so much performance (which Sharif took care of). And Haltech comes out with updates and I like to take advantage of them, so...
I don't change the timing because I don't have access to a load based dyno (which is very nice to have for this) and that map has already been tweaked by Sharif. So I just play around with everything else (fueling at vacuum/part throttle, traction control, boost control, transient throttle, etc). I'm very comfortable tuning based on my Haltech data logs. The Haltech provides several different ways to accomplish the same thing (many axes are configurable and there are so many CAN channels etc). I've learned a lot about more advanced tuning topics thanks to the Haltech's feature set. You can change most things without messing up the tune. The Haltech is very good about that. For example, _jb you could have gone from whatever size map you had to 32 x 32 and Haltech would have filled out the new cells correctly with no effort on your part. I have an aquamist HSF-6 coming in soon. I've been debating whether I should take a crack at setting up that tune entirely on my own. Not sure just yet. I only have access to a Dynojet, not a DD dyno. I think I could, but my time is so limited and there is no substitute for experience. I know I would spend just as much money on dyno time as just having Sharif provide me another map, so it's not a cost issue. Sharif is very efficient - I've sat in the passenger seat and watched. I saw and was familiar with what he was doing to smooth out the curve, but I would spend 2 to 3 times as long dialing the car in on the dyno. And time is money too.
I read about some of the Haltech options like enlarging the cell matrix to 32x32. The thing is that I didn't want to bring cell enlargement interpolation into the game when I was already having problems. I didn't think that would help with my problems. In retrospect, maybe the added granularity would have helped me smooth out the low speed driveability.
One of the differences between your experience and mine is that your tune was spot on the first time and you had no problems. You learned from someone with a lot of tuning experience and he has always been there for you. I'm not sure how close you live to Forged, but Sharif has certainly done right by you.
I've had issues since the beginning and have tried to take care of them in many ways. Some have been successful. Fortunately, I keep good records and have everything I've changed documented. I think switching from a Haltech to an Osiris tune was a good choice, although I underestimated how difficult it would be for someone not really familiar with Osiris to tune a car like mine with it.
Thanks for your response, Raj... I always appreciate your opinion...
-jb
09-07-2009, 12:44 AM
#111
Ymin = 100
Ymax = 300
Xmin = 2000rpm
Xmax = 8000rpm
Last edited by gabe3d; 09-07-2009 at 12:52 AM.
10-15-2009, 07:32 PM
#112
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Thanks, Gabe!
Sorry for not responding earlier... I kinda burned out over the last month...
Still thinking about things, though... My Crawford HFCs are a couple of years old now and I'm thinking about replacing them. I'm planning to go with test pipes this time. I don't know if my HFC's could have too much back pressure because they are old or not... I'm just thinking that test pipes might help me make more power and more high RPM power.
Reading your recent posts also makes me question my choice of a Cosworth plenum.
I guess we'll see...
Sorry for not responding earlier... I kinda burned out over the last month...
Still thinking about things, though... My Crawford HFCs are a couple of years old now and I'm thinking about replacing them. I'm planning to go with test pipes this time. I don't know if my HFC's could have too much back pressure because they are old or not... I'm just thinking that test pipes might help me make more power and more high RPM power.
Reading your recent posts also makes me question my choice of a Cosworth plenum.
I guess we'll see...
10-16-2009, 12:08 AM
#113
Good to hear that you are back. Haven't seen you on the forums lately.
Hope you are not burnt out from the car.
What was your original reason for going with the HFCs as oppose to TPs? The only thing I can think of is perhaps a slight decrease in sound, but from a smog point of view I didn't think that it would pass emission with them.
I as well hope that the purchase of the Cosworth will not turn out to be a total disappointment, only time will tell when I get the car back and on the dyno.
Here is the graph from my previous post. I moved it and forgot to update this.
Hope you are not burnt out from the car.
What was your original reason for going with the HFCs as oppose to TPs? The only thing I can think of is perhaps a slight decrease in sound, but from a smog point of view I didn't think that it would pass emission with them.
I as well hope that the purchase of the Cosworth will not turn out to be a total disappointment, only time will tell when I get the car back and on the dyno.
Here is the graph from my previous post. I moved it and forgot to update this.
10-16-2009, 08:54 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by gabe3d
What was your original reason for going with the HFCs as oppose to TPs? The only thing I can think of is perhaps a slight decrease in sound, but from a smog point of view I didn't think that it would pass emission with them.
Florida doesn't have emissions testing any more, although I imagine test pipes are still illegal. HFC's too probably... The Crawford HFC's look a lot like ordinary Cats, so they might pass emissions testing.
Now I'm waiting on a set of new test pipes that are designed to eliminate rasp. As soon as they are ready, I'm going to try a set and see if they help. I noticed that most of the high horsepower NA VQ's have test pipes, so I'm going to try a set.
02-19-2010, 09:47 AM
#116
jb, you dont know me but I'm a long time member and lurker of the site with not too many threads or replies because of my limited mods (bolt on parts only), so I dont have much to offer.
Anyway you mentioned your injectors as possibly being too large and may be part of your problem, I purchased a set of PE 380 injectors from a member here a couple of years ago which I have lying around somewhere that you are welcome to use to see if that may help your situation. They came in the PE turbo kit and were only used for tuning of the car and then he sold them after upgrading his turbos.
Like I said your welcome to them (for testing purposes of course) at no cost other then shipping. Let me know as it would require at least a day or two of searching to locate them. I also am planning a build once my financial situation turns around so this would benifet me as well, I follow all the builds, Adams,Gabes, RCDash, JT (by the way were is he now?) Rednezz and the others. I will be using info from all the builds.
let me know if I can help
Jerry
Anyway you mentioned your injectors as possibly being too large and may be part of your problem, I purchased a set of PE 380 injectors from a member here a couple of years ago which I have lying around somewhere that you are welcome to use to see if that may help your situation. They came in the PE turbo kit and were only used for tuning of the car and then he sold them after upgrading his turbos.
Like I said your welcome to them (for testing purposes of course) at no cost other then shipping. Let me know as it would require at least a day or two of searching to locate them. I also am planning a build once my financial situation turns around so this would benifet me as well, I follow all the builds, Adams,Gabes, RCDash, JT (by the way were is he now?) Rednezz and the others. I will be using info from all the builds.
let me know if I can help
Jerry
03-30-2010, 08:24 PM
#117
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jb, I just read the whole thread! Damn, you've gone and upgraded everything! Hehe Hope you remember me (You helped me out with the 4.083 gears, still loving em!)
Your car looks awesome now! 312rwhp!? Wow ! lol
Good to see you're enjoying it!
Any ball park figures of how much it costed you? Everything included? I'm just trying to get some ideas
Hope you remember me (You helped me out with the 4.083 gears, still loving em!)Your car looks awesome now! 312rwhp!? Wow ! lol
Good to see you're enjoying it!
Any ball park figures of how much it costed you? Everything included? I'm just trying to get some ideas
08-04-2010, 12:44 AM
#120
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did you get the stalling issues figured out?
i also thought those most recent dynos were a tad lean, even though you said you made the 312 at 14.
there was also some discussion on here about turning off the car between drag runs. i think that actually makes things worse, i would rather have air moving through the system inbetween runs to keep things a little cooler. much like a fan in a house. once air sits, especially with very hot components all around it, it will heat up much more than if the air was still moving. example, after driving around in cold weather, right when i get home i can put my hand on top of the upper plenum and it is cold. if i go inside and come back 5 minutes later, the upper plen is very hot to the touch. i should state that i have a MD iso thermal 5/16th spacer. before i put the spacer on, the upper plen was always hot. off topic, i know, but thought i would try and add something.
but i am very curious for an update on JB's car, as i am considering a similiar build. hope he got everything figured out. if it were me, id say screw it and go back to the original combo with the stock airbox and intake tube and go from there
i also thought those most recent dynos were a tad lean, even though you said you made the 312 at 14.
there was also some discussion on here about turning off the car between drag runs. i think that actually makes things worse, i would rather have air moving through the system inbetween runs to keep things a little cooler. much like a fan in a house. once air sits, especially with very hot components all around it, it will heat up much more than if the air was still moving. example, after driving around in cold weather, right when i get home i can put my hand on top of the upper plenum and it is cold. if i go inside and come back 5 minutes later, the upper plen is very hot to the touch. i should state that i have a MD iso thermal 5/16th spacer. before i put the spacer on, the upper plen was always hot. off topic, i know, but thought i would try and add something.
but i am very curious for an update on JB's car, as i am considering a similiar build. hope he got everything figured out. if it were me, id say screw it and go back to the original combo with the stock airbox and intake tube and go from there
Last edited by mgrotel; 08-04-2010 at 12:46 AM.