87mm TB Project
06-09-2013, 12:17 PM
#61
Wow! I like that!
On a side note, if you guys can get a LS TB to not only work but to also make cruise control work, with some plenum modification it could really open up some VQ's if I still had my 350z I would be on the edge of my seat watching this. I hated how limited NA was with the crappy of a selection we have for intake manifolds. Best of luck!
On a side note, if you guys can get a LS TB to not only work but to also make cruise control work, with some plenum modification it could really open up some VQ's if I still had my 350z I would be on the edge of my seat watching this. I hated how limited NA was with the crappy of a selection we have for intake manifolds. Best of luck!
Last edited by Fixxxercask; 06-09-2013 at 03:11 PM.
06-09-2013, 12:55 PM
#62
Well, got a bit of good news guys. I double checked all my wiring today and everything matches my diagram. I pulled the wiring pin outs from the FSM's of both vehicles so I am pretty confident the pin outs are correct.
The code from last week was showing that the input voltage was low. I started increasing the values in the throttle body table in Uprev for low RPM and idle TB voltages. I flashed the ROM and the car started. It spit and sputtered, but nonetheless it started so I'm slowly making progress here. Its going to take some time with some trial and error to get everything ironed out. Updates to come slowly but surely. Once I get it running well enough I will take a video.
The code from last week was showing that the input voltage was low. I started increasing the values in the throttle body table in Uprev for low RPM and idle TB voltages. I flashed the ROM and the car started. It spit and sputtered, but nonetheless it started so I'm slowly making progress here. Its going to take some time with some trial and error to get everything ironed out. Updates to come slowly but surely. Once I get it running well enough I will take a video.
Last edited by Fixxxercask; 06-09-2013 at 12:57 PM.
06-09-2013, 04:23 PM
#63
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I have the new haltech plug n play on the 350z, so it seems that the wiring is hammered down and the only issue is while starting up the car, since i don't have the OEM ECU i think this throttle body will work fine with the haltech. i would like to have a plug n play harness for this throttle body, is it possible to have one.
06-10-2013, 02:49 AM
#65
I have the new haltech plug n play on the 350z, so it seems that the wiring is hammered down and the only issue is while starting up the car, since i don't have the OEM ECU i think this throttle body will work fine with the haltech. i would like to have a plug n play harness for this throttle body, is it possible to have one.
06-10-2013, 03:42 AM
#66
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One of the Maxima guys on here makes an adapter harness for the TBs. Find him in the other 87mm throttle body thread.
Fixxercask, Did you wire the throttle body directly to the ECU and that's it? I did some testing on my bench with the 87mm and a Maxima 75mm. GM puts pull-up/down resistors on TB inputs inside the ECU, Nissan does not (or atleast their value is high enough value not to affect the levels). I'll see if I can dig out the characterization of both pots inside the TB and suggest something. It may be possible to make the GM TB read the same as a Nissan part with only external resistors.
Fixxercask, Did you wire the throttle body directly to the ECU and that's it? I did some testing on my bench with the 87mm and a Maxima 75mm. GM puts pull-up/down resistors on TB inputs inside the ECU, Nissan does not (or atleast their value is high enough value not to affect the levels). I'll see if I can dig out the characterization of both pots inside the TB and suggest something. It may be possible to make the GM TB read the same as a Nissan part with only external resistors.
06-10-2013, 11:15 AM
#67
Thanks for the info. I would greatly appreciate it if you could find some details on the two.
Yes, I I just wired it to the ECU essentially. I cut the factory plug off with enough wire to put connectors on. I am using crimps that can be snapped in, so I can remove this and go back to OEM pretty easily.
Yes, I I just wired it to the ECU essentially. I cut the factory plug off with enough wire to put connectors on. I am using crimps that can be snapped in, so I can remove this and go back to OEM pretty easily.
06-10-2013, 03:36 PM
#68
Nice work! Keep it up!
Would you guys be interested in a handmade aluminum/sheetmetal style coffin intake? Designed for high rpm flow, similar to the cjm, made to fit a bigger tb (extended elbow) priced around 1200? Not offering any services or advertising anything, just asking before i pour a bunch of money into r/d...
Pm me if you are! And keep this thread going!
Would you guys be interested in a handmade aluminum/sheetmetal style coffin intake? Designed for high rpm flow, similar to the cjm, made to fit a bigger tb (extended elbow) priced around 1200? Not offering any services or advertising anything, just asking before i pour a bunch of money into r/d...
Pm me if you are! And keep this thread going!
Last edited by Resmarted; 06-10-2013 at 03:38 PM.
06-10-2013, 04:36 PM
#71
EXTREMELY interested in how this pans out, I now have the original SGM motor but am running a completely stock intake system.
http://www.onpointdyno.com/?p=2953
currently limited to 6600 rpm until i can get bigger injectors etc.
http://www.onpointdyno.com/?p=2953
currently limited to 6600 rpm until i can get bigger injectors etc.
06-11-2013, 06:38 AM
#74
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Thanks for the info. I would greatly appreciate it if you could find some details on the two.
Yes, I I just wired it to the ECU essentially. I cut the factory plug off with enough wire to put connectors on. I am using crimps that can be snapped in, so I can remove this and go back to OEM pretty easily.
Yes, I I just wired it to the ECU essentially. I cut the factory plug off with enough wire to put connectors on. I am using crimps that can be snapped in, so I can remove this and go back to OEM pretty easily.
The 09 Maxima TB that I have produces the voltages that I would expect to see based on reading the 09 Maxima FSM. The TB sensor has the following characteristics:
Pin 2, which is Sensor 1 in the FSM has the traditional TPS signal and is a 4kohm pot. WOT = 4.250V, Closed = .46V, resting = .63V.
Pin 3, which is Sensor 2 in the FSM has the inverted TPS signal and is a 2kohm pot. WOT = .738V, Closed = 4.57V, resting = 4.404V.
These values should look familiar to those who have datalogged. I determined the pot values with a bit of math.
The 87mm throttle body from GM has a somewhat different set of readings. Also, the resting position is significantly more open, and probably somewhere around 10% throttle angle.
Pin F, which correlates to Nissan's Sensor 1 (GM calls this sensor 2) has the traditional TPS signal and is a 5k pot. WOT = 4.420, closed = .75V, resting = 1.596V
Pin D, which correlates to Nissan's Sensor 2 has the inverted TPS signal and is a 10k pot. WOT = 0.58V, Closed = 4.29V, resting = 3.42V.
This throttle body also has a 2.2kohm resistor that runs between terminals E-C (power to ground) to bring the overall resistance between the power pins in line with the Nissan/Hitachi unit.
The first thing you'll notice is the resting voltages are way out of whack. I wouldn't worry about this too much because the ECU can always apply a negative force to the throttle blade (negative numbers in the Uprev throttle table) to close it. The keys here are the WOT and closed values.
If you look at WOT and closed, the Sensor 1 values for the GM are shifted up a bit from the Nissan signals, and the Sensor 2 values are shifted down. The margin is small, but Fixxxercask and others have reported low voltage codes, so there's probably something there. Originally I thought that the solution would be to bend the curves by using pull-up and pull-down resistors (I do this in audio all the time to change a linear taper (like a TB) to an audio taper.). This does work to some degree, but I'm reevaluating my approach to fixing this. Of course, if you have Uprev ROM Editor, you can turn off the low voltage codes. And if Uprev had the man power they could located the voltage range that triggers this code and change it. I'm trying to find the hardware solution.
What code where you throwing Fixxxercask? P0122 or P0222?
I have the 87mm sensor completely disassembled, so we'll see where this goes.
06-11-2013, 11:58 AM
#76
OK here's all the info that I've been sitting gathering.
The 09 Maxima TB that I have produces the voltages that I would expect to see based on reading the 09 Maxima FSM. The TB sensor has the following characteristics:
Pin 2, which is Sensor 1 in the FSM has the traditional TPS signal and is a 4kohm pot. WOT = 4.250V, Closed = .46V, resting = .63V.
Pin 3, which is Sensor 2 in the FSM has the inverted TPS signal and is a 2kohm pot. WOT = .738V, Closed = 4.57V, resting = 4.404V.
These values should look familiar to those who have datalogged. I determined the pot values with a bit of math.
The 87mm throttle body from GM has a somewhat different set of readings. Also, the resting position is significantly more open, and probably somewhere around 10% throttle angle.
Pin F, which correlates to Nissan's Sensor 1 (GM calls this sensor 2) has the traditional TPS signal and is a 5k pot. WOT = 4.420, closed = .75V, resting = 1.596V
Pin D, which correlates to Nissan's Sensor 2 has the inverted TPS signal and is a 10k pot. WOT = 0.58V, Closed = 4.29V, resting = 3.42V.
This throttle body also has a 2.2kohm resistor that runs between terminals E-C (power to ground) to bring the overall resistance between the power pins in line with the Nissan/Hitachi unit.
The first thing you'll notice is the resting voltages are way out of whack. I wouldn't worry about this too much because the ECU can always apply a negative force to the throttle blade (negative numbers in the Uprev throttle table) to close it. The keys here are the WOT and closed values.
If you look at WOT and closed, the Sensor 1 values for the GM are shifted up a bit from the Nissan signals, and the Sensor 2 values are shifted down. The margin is small, but Fixxxercask and others have reported low voltage codes, so there's probably something there. Originally I thought that the solution would be to bend the curves by using pull-up and pull-down resistors (I do this in audio all the time to change a linear taper (like a TB) to an audio taper.). This does work to some degree, but I'm reevaluating my approach to fixing this. Of course, if you have Uprev ROM Editor, you can turn off the low voltage codes. And if Uprev had the man power they could located the voltage range that triggers this code and change it. I'm trying to find the hardware solution.
What code where you throwing Fixxxercask? P0122 or P0222?
I have the 87mm sensor completely disassembled, so we'll see where this goes.
The 09 Maxima TB that I have produces the voltages that I would expect to see based on reading the 09 Maxima FSM. The TB sensor has the following characteristics:
Pin 2, which is Sensor 1 in the FSM has the traditional TPS signal and is a 4kohm pot. WOT = 4.250V, Closed = .46V, resting = .63V.
Pin 3, which is Sensor 2 in the FSM has the inverted TPS signal and is a 2kohm pot. WOT = .738V, Closed = 4.57V, resting = 4.404V.
These values should look familiar to those who have datalogged. I determined the pot values with a bit of math.
The 87mm throttle body from GM has a somewhat different set of readings. Also, the resting position is significantly more open, and probably somewhere around 10% throttle angle.
Pin F, which correlates to Nissan's Sensor 1 (GM calls this sensor 2) has the traditional TPS signal and is a 5k pot. WOT = 4.420, closed = .75V, resting = 1.596V
Pin D, which correlates to Nissan's Sensor 2 has the inverted TPS signal and is a 10k pot. WOT = 0.58V, Closed = 4.29V, resting = 3.42V.
This throttle body also has a 2.2kohm resistor that runs between terminals E-C (power to ground) to bring the overall resistance between the power pins in line with the Nissan/Hitachi unit.
The first thing you'll notice is the resting voltages are way out of whack. I wouldn't worry about this too much because the ECU can always apply a negative force to the throttle blade (negative numbers in the Uprev throttle table) to close it. The keys here are the WOT and closed values.
If you look at WOT and closed, the Sensor 1 values for the GM are shifted up a bit from the Nissan signals, and the Sensor 2 values are shifted down. The margin is small, but Fixxxercask and others have reported low voltage codes, so there's probably something there. Originally I thought that the solution would be to bend the curves by using pull-up and pull-down resistors (I do this in audio all the time to change a linear taper (like a TB) to an audio taper.). This does work to some degree, but I'm reevaluating my approach to fixing this. Of course, if you have Uprev ROM Editor, you can turn off the low voltage codes. And if Uprev had the man power they could located the voltage range that triggers this code and change it. I'm trying to find the hardware solution.
What code where you throwing Fixxxercask? P0122 or P0222?
I have the 87mm sensor completely disassembled, so we'll see where this goes.
06-11-2013, 02:08 PM
#77
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I can't find a P1221 or P1222. Can you recheck that?
Also, I just opened up the spare DE ECU that I have and the TPS Sensor 1 and Sensor 2 pins have very light pull-ups and pull-downs of 510kohms. These will not affect the levels that I'm measuring on the bench. These just pull the inputs one way when the TB is disconnected.
Also, I just opened up the spare DE ECU that I have and the TPS Sensor 1 and Sensor 2 pins have very light pull-ups and pull-downs of 510kohms. These will not affect the levels that I'm measuring on the bench. These just pull the inputs one way when the TB is disconnected.
06-11-2013, 03:27 PM
#78
I can't find a P1221 or P1222. Can you recheck that?
Also, I just opened up the spare DE ECU that I have and the TPS Sensor 1 and Sensor 2 pins have very light pull-ups and pull-downs of 510kohms. These will not affect the levels that I'm measuring on the bench. These just pull the inputs one way when the TB is disconnected.
Also, I just opened up the spare DE ECU that I have and the TPS Sensor 1 and Sensor 2 pins have very light pull-ups and pull-downs of 510kohms. These will not affect the levels that I'm measuring on the bench. These just pull the inputs one way when the TB is disconnected.
06-12-2013, 01:40 AM
#79
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Great work guys. So will it be possible to rotate the TB so it won't be too high or ??
I have been looking for some bigger TB that is a bit more plug and play, and this might be it. Subbed and hope to see it working
I have been looking for some bigger TB that is a bit more plug and play, and this might be it. Subbed and hope to see it working