thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

Picked up some DW 440's for 150 bucks on the marketplace, also spoke to the tuner said the 440's would be fine on the stock pump and flow plenty for an n/a e85 setup. If I was turbo it would be a different story. Stock 370z pump and injectors support e85 so I dont think the pump will be a problem. IIRC, my car was previously turbo with a different block and there are some turbo guys running 350 wheel on the stock pump i believe.. so i will ride the lightening in regards to the pump.

I made an adapter plate for the 09 maxima throttle body, but overestimated my cast aluminum welding skills....so the bigger intake tube is on the backburner for now and im going to port match a new upper plenum to the bigger throttle body and stick with that for a little till i have my buddy finish up the weld.

I have a dilemma though, the tuner is 2 hours away from here and If i throw the injectors in im gonna be stupid rich. The tuner said it would be OK to make the drive straight to the shop due to the e85 needing more fuel anyway it would offset it a bit. It would only be 17% rich accounting for the 30% more fuel needed for the corn. ( I know this isnt exactly how it works but, its close) Im skeptical as to if this is the best option or not.. because if i drive it up on e85 and they tune it for the corn, i would still be needing a tune for 93 to compensate for the new injectors correct?

KA24DE

Tomei cams are inferior to JWT, and give up a ton of low end power for heroic peak numbers.
The D.C. Headers are already undersized for the bigger cams of something like the rev up and are holding you back - finally cam timing looks to be off. Car is peaking well before 6000rpm, which isn't good.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

? ok bud, thanks lol. A day late and a dollar short, Thing is that I am a budget guy. I payed 300 less for cams and valve springs (JWT 1200 cams alone) without compromising quality. Either way, longer duration cams are going to give up low end power, I am happy with how my car pulls as of now... yep, long tubes would be great, and I may eventually go to them.. but I also have to pass emissions and had to pass US customs so I needed something that would give me a chance to do that and long tubes wouldn't have fit the bill. If you'd like me to log my tunes so you can observe, give me your email. Also, the dyno wasn't reading torque so I believe the tuner didn't mess with the timing too much because he couldn't read torque. Also a possibility for the lower peak is the non-rev lower plenum.

Also, said screw it on installing the 440cc injectors with no tune since one of my OEMs died... I did plenty of research on this and the tree hugger community commonly installs larger injectors only so they can run E85 without any other changes. The magic number the tree community uses is 47% larger injectors.. lo and behold the 440's were around that value bigger than the oem injectors... drained the 93, installed the 440's and filled up with e85..IT RUNS LIKE A NEW ONE!! According to the wideband, AFR's are spot on and my fuel mileage decreased 30%.. inline with what was expected. Now I know this was not the ideal way, but it worked out fine. I will get a re-tune as soon as possible for the results. Also Installed an 09 maxima throttle body w/ a custom adaptor plate I made.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

UpRev_Log7-17-2017_4-08-03_PM.csv

Here is a log on e85, my tuning knowledge is limited, but from what I can see it isn't too bad. The car actually idles better, starts better, and in general feels smoother than 93.. On the log, bank 1 long term is 110 in some areas during idle, this could account for the idle fluctuation I have. Other than that, shes running a tad bit rich up top. Im thinking of adding a degree ot two of global timing, logging and checking for knock just to see if she likes it.

jellofuel

Oh cool, I saw this z on Z1's IG account, and wondered if it was cammed or not. Z1 installed JWT C8 cams on my 03, and power gives way after 6.25k rpm. They state the resolution is to install the Kinetix Velocity manifold.

Kyle said the stock injectors would be maxed, based on the power we were expecting to make, so we installed VHR injectors. I could rev to nearly 8k if I wanted, but the power drops off so sharp, there's no point.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

yeah, those runs were on 93. I was gonna go with VHR injectors too but my DE's failed and I got a good deal on DW440's and used the e85 to make up for the extra fuel. Worked out perfect.. car pulls great. Also.. check out modding the stock upper plenum and the stock throttle body, some picked up 32 whp. IMO, more worth it and documented gains and probably end up costing the same or less than a velocity. I just haven't seen any concrete evidence that the velocity makes power.

jellofuel

Thanks for the input, and just know in advance, I don't intend to argue your point lol - I've pored over dyno sheets, and my goal's to hold the power up top. My z peaks at 6k rpm - 6.25k rpm, and drops fairly sharply to 280. I have the Z1 m-spec race intake, and NWP throttle body, so judging by the dyno sheet that Z1 uploaded to IG, I should be able to accomplish that goal with the Velocity manifold. I'm also DD with occasional track duty, so the weight savings up front would be a bonus as well

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

Please shoot me a PM with the results of the velocity, Im very interested in what it makes. Im not trying to argue either, just discussing.. I appreciate your constructiveness compared to some What does your dyno sheet look like?

jellofuel

This is my dyno sheet, but I'm setting money aside for the Velocity project - Z1 stated I'd need to retune for it, so I plan on getting one used, and then getting a retune.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

awesome, yeah always gotta get a retune.. its such a pita lol. Have you considered e85?

jellofuel

If I recall right, Z34 owners can just tune for E85, so I might be able to tune for it as well, having VHR injectors - I'm not sure about the fuel lines though, if they'd need upgrading at all.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

fuel lines should be good, the newer hard plastic ones like we have are stout. You should be able to, youd might be pretty high in the duty cycle though.

jellofuel

I have a touring model with cruise control - maybe I could have multiple maps for E85 with one map detuned to the same power level that 93 makes, the goal being to reduce underhood temps during track days. (I DD my z, and only occasionally track)

Would I need to upgrade the fuel pump?

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

thats how im going to do it, use the maps to switch tunes if i need to. Also my fuel pump supplies enough fuel and my tuner said stock pump should be fine on NA application.

toughguy

Blue line is APS tall boy with nonrevup lower and Nwp throttle body<br/>Red line is kinetix velocity with Nwp tb <br/>Both setups were tuned for and this is as good as it got. This is what prompted me to make modded upper plenums and port lowers. The best NA dynos out there aren't running Velocity manifolds, the information is out there. The money and time has been spent so you can save yours.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

yep, agree modded upper is really the only way to go besides ITB

jellofuel

Not to sound like I'm beating a dead horse here, but my plan's changed to simply installing a Z1 velocity stack w/filter onto the intake I do have, and then focus my efforts elsewhere.. the game plan being to upgrade suspension, wheels, LSD, and FD for occasional track duty.

thekyledeg

iTrader: (1)

at the end of the day, its the better option