Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

Hey All,

Me and another member (mw9) are attempting to mimic what SG did with the giant 90mm throttle body and intake. We actually have a Hitachi made TB that is 87mm. We have done a lot of research on this and found that Hitachi makes TB's for Nissan, GM and a few others. Because of that the voltage levels are almost identical so there shouldn't be too much adjustment needed. The difference between this and what SG did is that we are using a DBW TB and not a cable converted one. MW9 is able to do all of the fab work and I am mainly working on the wiring and tuning aspect of it. I have purchased Uprev Osiris and plan on using it to adjust voltage levels needed for the TB and more importantly the MAF tuning. We are going to be running a 4" intake pipe all the way to the TB. The outlet of the TB is slightly smaller so from there it will be 3.5" to the plenum. There was a huge thread on the Titan forum about guys using a 90mm LS TB. They adapted it to the stock plenum so it had a huge choke point from 90mm down to whatever the stock plenum inlet was. They still made power, but to me that is a huge choke and we are trying to avoid that. IMHO I feel if you're going to run a larger intake pipe it needs to be the same size or really close to it until it gets to the plenum.

In order to achieve this, mw9 is hacking the entire inlet to the stock plenum off and fabbing a 3.5" pipe from there to the outlet of the plenum. So we will have 4" cone and piping to the TB and 3.5" from there to the plenum. This is a huge increase over the stock pipe. I believe the stock pipe is 2.75".

I have all wiring pin outs for the Hitachi TB and the Z TB so I know what to connect. So far I have the TB, a pigtail and a 4" MAF pipe. Going to a larger MAF pipe, there is a formula that I have to apply to the MAF table so the car can properly read the airflow and therefore put the correct amount of fuel in.

This is a huge learning process for both of us and will be working on this here and there. Both of our cars are track only and we are looking to just get max NA power. If we get this working successfully, we both will be getting PPE longtube headers and getting it re-tuned. Shooting for 290-300whp before cams. 300 is doubtful, but we have high hopes. That would be very impressive for a non-revup. It will be that much more rewarding when we actually build the motors and get some good cams in there.

Feel free to comment with any info that might be helpful or point out something that we might have missed.

This is not something that we are trying to pump out in a week or two. I have an event coming up memorial day weekend, so I will not be messing with it until after that. I have almost everything, but I should have it all by then.

I attached a few pics below to show how big this thing is. Other pic is the 4 inch MAF pipe.

mw9

iTrader: (51)

in for updates

350z-Na

iTrader: (5)

X2

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

Maf tuning is easy enough for the larger pipe, interested to see how easily you can adapt the DBW system to another TB that's not plug-and-play. If the TPS outputs are in the same range it should work, although i'm most curious about the mid-range and transition habits.

Simon da Silva

iTrader: (1)

Wow keep me posted aswell

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

I'll make it easy for all of you and delete the TB when I tune my ITBs. This thread will be obsolete.

mw9

iTrader: (51)

that didnt take long, thanks for the encouraging words

Jennifer 2

If a three and a half liter engine can only pump 3.5 liters of air (at 100% volumetric efficiency which no engine ever achieves) and can only do that every second RPM. How many cubic feet per minute can your engine pump?

I don’t know much about engines and such, but I remember my dad, who had a proper Flow Bench and fabricated all sorts of intake paraphernalia for his customers, saying that once the hole was big enough making it bigger did nothing. In fact making intake plumbing too large was very detrimental to things like throttle response etc. Can you show your math on this?

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

Very interested in the outcome and where to get the TB. I havn't order my 75mm TB yet or the pigtail.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Tired of all the oversized TB threads that don't pan out that I've volunteered countless times to help out and test on my car and get no response.

Daniel M

Interested too in the outcome!
I am trying to do the same thing as you are but I got a different GM TB from a LS1 which is 90mm.
Now I am waiting for it to get shipped.
For now I have ported all of the lower plenum and the gains were good but I feel that there is much more to gain by modifying the plenum neck.

mw9

iTrader: (51)

I understand completely, but if you have nothing constructive to say, please stay out of the thread. I see nothing about you ITB setup and I am sure none of the work is being done by you. And thats great you volunteered countless times, so again sounds like others would be doing for the work you. Just pisses me off when you are trying to do something for the community, we have all the resources to get the job done. We have both invested a lot of money and time in this, the only thing against us is time, we both work 60-70 hours a week.


For all the non-haters I have had the adapter spacers machined to test TB on stock plenum, until we can electronically get it to work.


Have you heard of SG motorsports, do a search. The TB alone will only give minimal gains, its only getting more air in. Next will be getting it out, we both will have built engines in the end. For the meantime we are going with headers, cams, and headwork. A lot involved, SG laid the ground work for everyone.

doshoru

iTrader: (3)

This.

SG demonstrated that the intake manifold was a huge restriction on the original VQDE.


My question is HR-related....We know that the dual intake runners breathe more freely, but by how much?

PS. I love the song in that video.

JCITY

iTrader: (2)

Another post mentioned in essence,just by making it bigger,does not mean
its gonna work.Enlarging the throttle body or,back in the day when we did carbs,
just forcing more air or gas into the engine will work if the other parts of the
"recipe" are in synch.Meaning,appropriate tuning,cams,exhaust etc.I did
a mod on one of my earliest cars that involved installing 2-4's(4 barrels for
the guys that don't know what a carb is)on a cross ram manifold.I quickly found
out after I started the car,with it bogging down,basically drowning in all the fuel
and air,that alot more was needed to make it work.I've got a Mines high flow
throttle body that I pick up for a bargain price.Its about 3mm wider at the
butterfly.Whats more important is the jewler like polishing done to all the surfaces.
This makes a world of difference.As I installed the TB at the same time I
was doing other bolyt on,I cannot report on what the TB alone would offer in the
way of performance.Again,from what I learned the hard way,the TB was just a
component of all the other stuff to give me a balanced performance.Mines states
a 10whp increase with their TB.I'm always leery of those numbers.

Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

I agree 100% about the countless threads on this topic that died. We both actually talked about that. That is why I waited until now to post. We already have 90% of the parts and material and have invested a lot of time in it already, so there is no turning back.

One of the biggest reasons we are doing this is because we know it worked for SG. Had they not proved its benefits, I probably wouldn't be investing so much effort and time into this.

I know the car is not going to make much for power at all until it has cams in it, but the main point right now is getting it to work and sharing with the community that we got it to work and how. Like he said, we both will have built motors when its all said and done, so this working will be more beneficial in the long run.

Fixxxercask

iTrader: (21)

I remember seeing on another thread somewhere that you were going to be doing something similar. What are you plans?

We are trying to get all the info we can and see what other people are considering that have been down this road or are planning on it.

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

https://my350z.com/forum/9942427-post143.html 75mm 09 Maxima throttle body. Going to couple it to a Kinetic V+

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

Hate the idea or not..............this thread is 100x more interesting than all the junk the noobs post on here.

Keep up the work guys! Look forward to results.

Skyway

iTrader: (2)

Awesome work guys! I love it! I think SG has definitely proven that there is a lot more on the table for our engines. I personally think itb's would be more beneficial than a larger tb, but the cost of itb's is what makes this setup viable. Keep it up and I'm in for updates

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

You guys are right. I was a dick last week. I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully, this is an option for people running UpRev or another ECU that tunes by MAF. Also, I hope this kit can be had for a reasonable price.

NA power is a noble task and deserves encouragement. i know that road all too well. GL getting a kit out there for the masses.