Jeremy Clarkson on the Prius

[xDIEGOx]

[DaytonaRoadster]

He's such a fcuking idiot. Course now that diesel is $5 a gallon, that does defeat his 'point'. But it's so odvious he doesnt like like cause hes an ignorant old fcuk who thinks anything thats fuel effiecent is 'green' and therefore anti-car. He thinks every car should have 500+ horsepower and use 5 gallons of gas per mile.

I love sports cars, i do, but i need a car to get to work everyday, thats why i have my Honda Fit. I'd love to see what he says about it, then remind him it gets damn near 40 MPH, holds more stuff than a mini-van, and outhandles corvettes and ferraris (i belive it was an article in Car and Driver).

He is clearly an entertainer, and doesn't know sh1t about engineering

[Jabdo233]

Originally Posted by DaytonaRoadster

He's such a fcuking idiot. Course now that diesel is $5 a gallon, that does defeat his 'point'. But it's so odvious he doesnt like like cause hes an ignorant old fcuk who thinks anything thats fuel effiecent is 'green' and therefore anti-car. He thinks every car should have 500+ horsepower and use 5 gallons of gas per mile.

I love sports cars, i do, but i need a car to get to work everyday, thats why i have my Honda Fit. I'd love to see what he says about it, then remind him it gets damn near 40 MPH, holds more stuff than a mini-van, and outhandles corvettes and ferraris (i belive it was an article in Car and Driver).

He is clearly an entertainer, and doesn't know sh1t about engineering

The review is 4 years old so I can see why he may have bad-mouthed it back then. But now... it might be different.

[DaytonaRoadster]

Originally Posted by Jabdo233

The review is 4 years old so I can see why he may have bad-mouthed it back then. But now... it might be different.

yeah i know, but it doesnt make most of what he said any less stupid

[HighwaySpeed]

Funny video!

Tasmanian Fruit Bat

[derangedtoolman]

manufacturing the Prius's battery is extraordinarily carbon-intensive. Paying off this carbon debt through fuel savings will take 46,000 miles, according to Wired . Only after 100,000 miles would the Prius catch up with carbon savings offered by a ten-year-old Toyota Tercel. And the Prius would never catch up with a 1994 Geo Metro XFi. By now the Prius is a cliche. Tooling around in an ancient, airbag-less deathtrap, by far the greener choice, is not.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by derangedtoolman

manufacturing the Prius's battery is extraordinarily carbon-intensive. Paying off this carbon debt through fuel savings will take 46,000 miles, according to Wired . Only after 100,000 miles would the Prius catch up with carbon savings offered by a ten-year-old Toyota Tercel. And the Prius would never catch up with a 1994 Geo Metro XFi. By now the Prius is a cliche. Tooling around in an ancient, airbag-less deathtrap, by far the greener choice, is not.

Those are pretty lame arguments and misleading too. You're probably referring to http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/t...e-pr.html#more and http://www.wired.com/science/planete...ies_09usedcars. See http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hy...tml#post620703 in response to the latter.

If you bothered to read the analysis at http://www.triplepundit.com/pages/as...car-002538.php (not saying he's necessarily credible or that his numbers are right):
"According to the GREET model it takes 100.391 mmBTU (million BTU) to make the vehicle, batteries, and fluids in an average 3,201 pound vehicle
...
According to the GREET model a Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV) that weighs 2,632 pounds requires 101.726 mmBTU to make, or 38,650 BTU/lb. As we will see, this small difference in production energy becomes negligible when you factor in the increased fuel efficiency.
...
Toyota Prius: 113.322 mmBTU"

Assuming his numbers are right, that would put a Prius increased gasoline energy equivalent to produce it at ~114 gallons vs. an average 3201 lb. vehicle.

Also, to equate these amounts of energy directly to carbon and translate into gasoline is also somewhat misleading. Per http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Japan/Electricity.html, Japan gets ~28% of its electricity from nuclear and 10% from hydroelectric sources.

You can also look at the life cycle assessment at http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf.

BTW, being "green" doesn't necessarily refer only to carbon dioxide emissions (of which the Prius is estimated to produce 2.1 tons less of every year per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm when comparing an 08 Prius to a 98 manual Tercel) but it also refers particulate matter, carcinogens, poisonous gases like carbon monoxide and compounds that cause smog. The Prius gets an 8 or 9.5 on the EPA pollution score and is extremely clean in the above department compared to the horrible standard 1998 era vehicles had to meet. See http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf (see pages 1 and 2).

[iceagetlc]

Originally Posted by derangedtoolman

manufacturing the Prius's battery is extraordinarily carbon-intensive. Paying off this carbon debt through fuel savings will take 46,000 miles, according to Wired . Only after 100,000 miles would the Prius catch up with carbon savings offered by a ten-year-old Toyota Tercel. And the Prius would never catch up with a 1994 Geo Metro XFi. By now the Prius is a cliche. Tooling around in an ancient, airbag-less deathtrap, by far the greener choice, is not.

Yea, I read about that as well.

[Jabdo233]

Originally Posted by cwerdna

Those are pretty lame arguments and misleading too. You're probably referring to http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/t...e-pr.html#more and http://www.wired.com/science/planete...ies_09usedcars. See http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hy...tml#post620703 in response to the latter.

If you bothered to read the analysis at http://www.triplepundit.com/pages/as...car-002538.php (not saying he's necessarily credible or that his numbers are right):
"According to the GREET model it takes 100.391 mmBTU (million BTU) to make the vehicle, batteries, and fluids in an average 3,201 pound vehicle
...
According to the GREET model a Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV) that weighs 2,632 pounds requires 101.726 mmBTU to make, or 38,650 BTU/lb. As we will see, this small difference in production energy becomes negligible when you factor in the increased fuel efficiency.
...
Toyota Prius: 113.322 mmBTU"

Assuming his numbers are right, that would put a Prius increased gasoline energy equivalent to produce it at ~114 gallons vs. an average 3201 lb. vehicle.

Also, to equate these amounts of energy directly to carbon and translate into gasoline is also somewhat misleading. Per http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Japan/Electricity.html, Japan gets ~28% of its electricity from nuclear and 10% from hydroelectric sources.

You can also look at the life cycle assessment at http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf.

BTW, being "green" doesn't necessarily refer only to carbon dioxide emissions (of which the Prius is estimated to produce 2.1 tons less of every year per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm when comparing an 08 Prius to a 98 manual Tercel) but it also refers particulate matter, carcinogens, poisonous gases like carbon monoxide and compounds that cause smog. The Prius gets an 8 or 9.5 on the EPA pollution score and is extremely clean in the above department compared to the horrible standard 1998 era vehicles had to meet. See http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf (see pages 1 and 2).

Thanks for posting this data. I knew the Prius wasn't as bad as people here made it out to be. And of all people, we as sports car enthusiasts have no right to be bashing on a car like this.

[greekguy824]

Originally Posted by DaytonaRoadster

yeah i know, but it doesnt make most of what he said any less stupid

I'd say it changes everything, actually. Someone was offended! ha

[derangedtoolman]

March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

[Jabdo233]

Originally Posted by derangedtoolman

March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

This article is a flawed with many unrealistic assumptions.

Nickel mining has absolutely nothing to do with people who drive a Prius: If you believe the Canadian government doesn’t have environmental laws then you are clearly confused. If you believe a Hummer is an environmentally friendly vehicle then you are confused! If you believe that a Prius stops functioning after 100K miles then you are clearly confused. If you believe that a Hummer can go 300K miles on average then you are clearly confused. If you believe the world is flat, that would make sense considering the lack of logic in that posting.

I am sorry but that article has been thrown around 100s of times and it's all a bunch of BS. I feel sorry for people who believe any of that crap.

[MikeRR]

I totally agree with him - hate these things

[DaytonaRoadster]

Originally Posted by derangedtoolman

March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

clearly written by your 'friendly' GM Engineer

[Jabdo233]

Originally Posted by DaytonaRoadster

clearly written by your 'friendly' GM Engineer

More like a total dumbass... oh wait they're synonymous.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by derangedtoolman

March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

That article and the CNW 'study' is the biggest bunch of crap in and junk science in the world, cites TOTALLY inaccurate information and uses fuzzy math. It's been thoroughly debunked and you can do the math yourself and find that it makes no sense.

See http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hy...ding-myth.html, esp. http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hy...tml#post541556.

Even the story about the nickel mine was retracted, see http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/a...a-factory.html.

See some of my rebuttals to the CNW crap and this crap article before it had been dubunked by others at http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...nw#post3495463.
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre....php?p=2492547
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...=257682&page=3 (see my posts)

To derangedtoolman and to quote one of my earlier posts about the CNW crap:
"If you want to hear more BS, it claims that the 350Z will last 156K miles (seems reasonable) but over the life, the total energy cost will be between $342K and $391K! This leads to a supposed estimated cost per mile of $2.193 to $2.51!

Does this make ANY sense to you? Driving your Z for 156K miles costs $342K in energy? Even if you drove your Z for 156K miles, got only 10 mpg and gas cost $5/gallon, that comes out to $78K for gas. Factor in the amount the cost of the car (let's assume the full cost of it == energy it takes to produce it, which couldn't be true), that still leaves $229K unaccounted for."

If you assume that a Prius somehow lasts only 100K miles (even though the batttery is warranted to 150K miles in CARB states) and somehow only gets 30 mpg (I'm getting 46 lifetime mpg so far) and gas costs $10/gal, you'd spend $33333 on gas + say $30K on the car (too high), that comes out to $63333. Where does the difference of $325000 - 63333 = $261K come from? Who pays this? The tooth fairy?

[derangedtoolman]

i honestly give sh!ts....hahah i drive my Z and my track miata and i am happy...people can do whatever they want...i was just fueling the fire

[DaytonaRoadster]

Originally Posted by cwerdna

That article and the CNW 'study' is the biggest bunch of crap in and junk science in the world, cites TOTALLY inaccurate information and uses fuzzy math. It's been thoroughly debunked and you can do the math yourself and find that it makes no sense.

See http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hy...ding-myth.html, esp. http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hy...tml#post541556.

Even the story about the nickel mine was retracted, see http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/a...a-factory.html.

See some of my rebuttals to the CNW crap and this crap article before it had been dubunked by others at http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...nw#post3495463.
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre....php?p=2492547
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...=257682&page=3 (see my posts)

To derangedtoolman and to quote one of my earlier posts about the CNW crap:
"If you want to hear more BS, it claims that the 350Z will last 156K miles (seems reasonable) but over the life, the total energy cost will be between $342K and $391K! This leads to a supposed estimated cost per mile of $2.193 to $2.51!

Does this make ANY sense to you? Driving your Z for 156K miles costs $342K in energy? Even if you drove your Z for 156K miles, got only 10 mpg and gas cost $5/gallon, that comes out to $78K for gas. Factor in the amount the cost of the car (let's assume the full cost of it == energy it takes to produce it, which couldn't be true), that still leaves $229K unaccounted for."

If you assume that a Prius somehow lasts only 100K miles (even though the batttery is warranted to 150K miles in CARB states) and somehow only gets 30 mpg (I'm getting 46 lifetime mpg so far) and gas costs $10/gal, you'd spend $33333 on gas + say $30K on the car (too high), that comes out to $63333. Where does the difference of $325000 - 63333 = $261K come from? Who pays this? The tooth fairy?

how am i not suprised

[JunkStory]

Originally Posted by Jabdo233

This article is a flawed with many unrealistic assumptions.

Nickel mining has absolutely nothing to do with people who drive a Prius: If you believe the Canadian government doesn’t have environmental laws then you are clearly confused. If you believe a Hummer is an environmentally friendly vehicle then you are confused! If you believe that a Prius stops functioning after 100K miles then you are clearly confused. If you believe that a Hummer can go 300K miles on average then you are clearly confused. If you believe the world is flat, that would make sense considering the lack of logic in that posting.

I am sorry but that article has been thrown around 100s of times and it's all a bunch of BS. I feel sorry for people who believe any of that crap.

Well said. The article shows how a clever choice of words and #'s can really mislead the simple minded folks.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by Jabdo233

This article is a flawed with many unrealistic assumptions.

Nickel mining has absolutely nothing to do with people who drive a Prius: If you believe the Canadian government doesn’t have environmental laws then you are clearly confused. If you believe a Hummer is an environmentally friendly vehicle then you are confused! If you believe that a Prius stops functioning after 100K miles then you are clearly confused. If you believe that a Hummer can go 300K miles on average then you are clearly confused. If you believe the world is flat, that would make sense considering the lack of logic in that posting.

I am sorry but that article has been thrown around 100s of times and it's all a bunch of BS. I feel sorry for people who believe any of that crap.

Yep, even though this still isn't a full retraction, this guy is still wrong. In his followup at http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=203, he admits:

Along those lines, in the interest of fair and balanced journalism, it should be noted that the CNW Marketing research “Dust to Dust,” which I cited in my article, is dubious at best. Much of the debate has centered on the lifetime mileage of the Prius versus the Hummer. The average expected lifespan for a Prius, according to the report, was 100,000 miles when, in reality, the Prius is offered in several states with a warranty up to 150,000 miles alone.

There was also a great deal of debate regarding just which Hummer was used in the CNW report. It was the original Hummer, not the H2 or H3, which may clear up the 300,000 mile lifespan expected from a Hummer. However, there are enough holes as large as this throughout the CNW report to question its objectivity.

To steal from http://priuschat.com/forums/internat...tml#post528308

1. Regarding new EPA mileage estimates, Demorro claims the Chevy Aveo's mileage puts it within "spitting distance" of the Prius. The new EPA combined mileage put the Chevy Aveo at 26 mpg, the Toyota Prius at 46 mpg. So I guess 20 miles more per gallon is "spitting distance."
...
"The author of this article, Demorro, is so fact-challenged that in his follow-up piece, wherein he admits CNW's Dust-to-Dust is suspect, he continues his Prius-bashing by recommending people buy a Tesla Roadster instead for a mere $30,000. ( http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=203 ). The Tesla Roadster actually costs $92,000. The guy can't even get the list price of a car right; I seriously wouldn't trust his opinion on hybrids."

You can see the author's misinformed anti-hybrid bias at http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=891832. In one of his posts (which seems to be either removed or edited), he admitted he threw the article together in 1.5 hours. He also was 21 at the time.

It's a case of garbage in (CNW study) and poorly "researched" writing -- > garbage out.

I've already posted a bunch of my rebuttals and don't have time to retype and redo them all again.