question for current or past(06-up) tahoe/surburban owners

[greekguy824]

Damn, Prius owners getting pissed up in this b*tch.

[Divergent13]

Originally Posted by greekguy824

Damn, Prius owners getting pissed up in this b*tch.

Typical response I expected.

[zand02max]

Fukc all tree huggers!

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by zand02max

Fukc all tree huggers!

I am not a tree hugger. Even if global warming from man-made activities and air pollution are a total crock, there's still the issue of our dependence on and addiction to foreign oil and the safety of other drivers.

Kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity^2

It sure would suck to get hit by a 5000+ lb. monstrosity class SUV (especially driven by someone who really doesn't need it) vs. at 2700-3700 lb. car.

[zindy]

^ i do need a suv this large. what may i gonna say sorry kids you can't bring anything on this trip, no room. i do choose to have a big family therefore i need a big vehicle. although i don't anybody to get hurt in a crash, i would like to make sure my family is safe in a crash. yes they are big but so is a cadillac deville and a school bus for that matter. but any way back on topic. i appreciate the info of the owners. also fwd sucks ftmfl !!! never should of been invented!

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by zindy

^ i do need a suv this large. what may i gonna say sorry kids you can't bring anything on this trip, no room. i do choose to have a big family therefore i need a big vehicle. although i don't anybody to get hurt in a crash, i would like to make sure my family is safe in a crash. yes they are big but so is a cadillac deville and a school bus for that matter. but any way back on topic. i appreciate the info of the owners. also fwd sucks ftmfl !!! never should of been invented!

Being in a large, heavy vehicle doesn't necessarily make your safer. That's a common misconception. Sure, you'll probably come out better in a multi-vehicle accident involving smaller, lighter vehicles, but they're worse at AVOIDING an accident in the first place. Ssee aforementioned poor handling and braking along w/their higher rollover risk.

You can take a look at death rates at http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4204.pdf. Notice that large SUVs do much worse than minivans in terms of death rates in single vehicle crashes and rollovers?

[zindy]

i no you can never be safe in a crash, nothing is the perfect vehicle. but i do know that the 5 stars all the the around for crash test is just about as good as it gets. your link doesn't work, but i will say there are a lot more suv than minivan's on the road these days. so there will more deaths. poor handling what do people really expect with these things, the are not meant to be driven aggressively, but they are there are a bunch of idiots out there. as long you can understand what you are driving and how it was designed to be driven you should be a little safer. but anyways my original ? was about the reliablity of them from people from this site, i look around reviews from companies on the internet and consumer reviews. i am just trying to get all the info. i can.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by zindy

i no you can never be safe in a crash, nothing is the perfect vehicle. but i do know that the 5 stars all the the around for crash test is just about as good as it gets. your link doesn't work, but i will say there are a lot more suv than minivan's on the road these days. so there will more deaths. poor handling what do people really expect with these things, the are not meant to be driven aggressively, but they are there are a bunch of idiots out there. as long you can understand what you are driving and how it was designed to be driven you should be a little safer. but anyways my original ? was about the reliablity of them from people from this site, i look around reviews from companies on the internet and consumer reviews. i am just trying to get all the info. i can.

The link works for me. You can also try http://www.iihs.org/sr/2007.html and click on the link underneath "Status Report, Vol. 42, No. 4 • April 19, 2007".

The numbers are NOT absolute death numbers, they are death RATES per million registered vehicles years. They give an example on page 4 "Two vehicles registered for 12 months each yield 2 vehicle years." The statement "there are a lot more suv than minivan's on the road these days" is not particularly relevant when it comes to rates.

You won't need to "test" a vehicle's crash test protection if you're able to AVOID an accident in the first place. SUVs are more prone to rollover. From http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/rollover.html:
"Are rollovers more common for SUVs than for other vehicles?

Rollovers are much more common for SUVs and pickups than for cars, and more common for SUVs than for pickups. This has been true in the past and continues to be so. In 2007, 59 percent of SUV occupants killed in crashes were in vehicles that rolled over. In comparison, 46 percent of deaths in pickups and 25 percent of deaths in cars were in rollovers.

Pickups and SUVs tend to be involved in rollovers more frequently than cars largely due to the physical differences of these vehicles. Light trucks are taller than cars and have greater ground clearance, causing their mass to be distributed higher off the road relative to the width of the vehicle. Additional passengers and cargo can increase the center of gravity even more. Other things being equal, a vehicle with a higher center of gravity is more prone to roll over than a lower riding vehicle..."

Back to test results, if you go to http://www.safercar.gov/, you'll see that the 06 Suburban (http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/...002fd17898RCRD) does not have "5 star" crash test ratings and also has an inferior rollover rating to say an 08 Honda Odyssey or 08 Toyota Sienna.

[Scipher21]

Originally Posted by zindy

^ i do need a suv this large. what may i gonna say sorry kids you can't bring anything on this trip, no room. i do choose to have a big family therefore i need a big vehicle. although i don't anybody to get hurt in a crash, i would like to make sure my family is safe in a crash. yes they are big but so is a cadillac deville and a school bus for that matter. but any way back on topic. i appreciate the info of the owners. also fwd sucks ftmfl !!! never should of been invented!

Buick Enclave FTW
or perhaps...
GMC Acadia

[zindy]

Well just wanted to thank the people who answered my question. I just picked up an yukon xl for roughly 13k off msrp. Just the sle-1 package, I know my kids will cause a lot of wear and tear so I didn't need or want anything costing more. Also I was talking about the 2008 safety ratings. They are improved over the 2006. I understand this thing doesn't handle like my z did. It is truly apple to oranges, yes they will rollover easier than a car. Thanks again for the info.

[zindy]

Acadia is fwd or awd. Don't want fwd and most dealerships are out of the 08's.

[StefanZ]

Originally Posted by cwerdna

Good lord! Not that JUNK SCIENCE again that refused to die!

I already went thru all of this many times, once at http://my350z.com/forum/other-vehicl...ml#post5884289.

The story about the nickel mine in Sudbury was retracted. See http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/a...a-factory.html. Per http://www.sudburyontario.worldweb.c...ws//8-797.html, nickel's been mined there since 1891.


TOTAL BULLSHIT. See above.

Where are the press releases from GM, Land Rover and environmental groups proclaiming that the Tahoe, Land Rover Discovery, Hummer H2, etc. are more environmentally friendly than a Prius?

Just so we're crystal, I'm aware of the report that stated that Prius' were more environmentally damaging than Hummers, and I'm aware of the overstatements. However, there are several issues which eliminate the benefit of vehicles like hybrids:

1) Nickel mining is inherently environmentally destructive. It is worse for the environment than drilling for oil.

2) Going to electric vehicles will place tremendous burden on our electricity producing infrastructure, which still uses fossil fuels.

3) People who complain about the risk to others in driving SUVs are ignoring the fact that Freight vehicles are abundant, and driving an SUV far better insulates one against injury than do tin cans like Priuses.

4) Part of accident avoidance is driving a vehicle which can accelerate out of danger. Good luck in your Prius.

5) Part of accident avoidance is defensive driving, which I can do equally well in a large SUV.

6) I can't fit a payload in a Prius.

7) I can't tow a boat in a Prius.

8) A large family cannot fit in a Prius.

9) Priuses are ugly as fack.

10) When the batteries in hybrids or electrics run their course, they are going to create an increasingly looming environmental disposal problem.

11) Replacing the batteries in a hybrid is extremely expensive.

That's enough. I'll stick with my SUVs.

[zindy]

Well said sir^

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by StefanZ

Just so we're crystal, I'm aware of the report that stated that Prius' were more environmentally damaging than Hummers, and I'm aware of the overstatements. However, there are several issues which eliminate the benefit of vehicles like hybrids:

1) Nickel mining is inherently environmentally destructive. It is worse for the environment than drilling for oil.

2) Going to electric vehicles will place tremendous burden on our electricity producing infrastructure, which still uses fossil fuels.

3) People who complain about the risk to others in driving SUVs are ignoring the fact that Freight vehicles are abundant, and driving an SUV far better insulates one against injury than do tin cans like Priuses.

4) Part of accident avoidance is driving a vehicle which can accelerate out of danger. Good luck in your Prius.

5) Part of accident avoidance is defensive driving, which I can do equally well in a large SUV.

6) I can't fit a payload in a Prius.

7) I can't tow a boat in a Prius.

8) A large family cannot fit in a Prius.

9) Priuses are ugly as fack.

10) When the batteries in hybrids or electrics run their course, they are going to create an increasingly looming environmental disposal problem.

11) Replacing the batteries in a hybrid is extremely expensive.

That's enough. I'll stick with my SUVs.

1) Per http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200...en_mailbag.asp "Prius batteries, which contain 32 pounds of nickel each, require only a fraction of the world's supply. More than 94 percent of the 1.55 million tons of nickel mined each year is used for stainless steel, alloys, and electroplating. So the batteries for the one million hybrids Toyota has sold so far have required only one percent of the world's annual nickel-mining production. Since the estimates on nickel recycling indicate about 80 percent is being reused, a million Priuses' share of newly mined nickel would really only be about two-tenths of one percent."

Cite me a reputable source to backup your claim "It is worse for the environment than drilling for oil."

Let's also look at which is worse (comparing a Yukon XL to a Prius):
- The materials that went into one vehicle weighing ~2700 - 3580 lbs more.
- Over a 200K mile period, one vehicle consuming 12500 gallons of gasoline vs. 4347 gallons.
- The aforementioned gasoline produces 242,500 lbs. of CO2 vs. 84,331 lbs.
- One vehicle spewing for more smog forming compounds, carcinogens and particulate matter because it has a significantly worse EPA pollution score. Look this up at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm and look at the definitions at http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf.

2) I never said we should go electric. As for "still uses fossil fuels", ok. Less than 2% of the US' electricity comes from petroleum, see http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri...m/epm_sum.html. However bad it is for us, we have PLENTY of coal in the US. The issue at hand is our dependence on foreign oil (60% of which we import).

Even if we were to go electric, electricity can be produced from renewable methods such as biomass (methane emitted by garbage dump) and clean renewables such as wind, geothermal, solar.

Petroleum is not a renewable resource.

3) Sure, there are plenty of freight vehicles. There's a BIG difference between something that's actually used for WORK vs. soccer moms and solo drivers driving around monstrosities they don't need.. It's a TRAVESTY that "light trucks" in terms of sales have gone from 19% of our US vehicle fleet in 1975 to 48% (see http://www.epa.gov/oms/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s08003.pdf).

It's also a travesty (per above URL) that "The increased overall market share of light trucks, which in recent years have averaged 5-7 mpg lower than cars, accounted for much of the decline in fuel economy of the overall new light-duty vehicle fleet from MY1987 through MY2004."

4) Yep, but large SUVs accelerate poorly as well.

5) Yep, but the speed at which you can actually avoid an accident by steering and NOT going out of control and braking is FAR worse in a monstrosity SUV than a Prius. It's no accident that the monstrosities fare so poorly in such tests.

6-8) True. I never said they were for everyone. The vast majority of these monstrosities I see running around are driven solo and/or with minimal passengers and cargo. Even fewer of them are towing anything.

9) Even I admit that that Prius looks funny although I wouldn't call it ugly. SUVs aren't attractive at all either.

10) Utter BS again. The NiMH batteries in the Prius are almost completely recyclable and Toyota pays a $200 bounty on them.

11) Replacing engines and transmissions isn't cheap either.

Yep, it ain't cheap but it's warranted for 10 years/150K miles in California and CARB states. The price has been falling. It's now $2300 per http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=708913. However, as most on Priuschat state, if a Prius has a bad battery, is out of warranty and has tons of mileage on it, it makes more sense to buy a battery from a salvaged Prius for cheap.

FWIW, http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/jesse4.htm went 349K miles on his previous gen on the original battery before it was totaled in an accident.

Besides the fuel savings, brake wear is greatly reduced thanks to regenerative braking. There are many documented cases of Prius owners on w/plenty of life left on the original front pads after 100K miles.

You may as well also look at www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by zindy

I just picked up an yukon xl for roughly 13k off msrp.

Sigh... at least you live nowhere near me. I already despise non-extended length monstrosities every time I see one. The extended length versions are even worse.

I'd hate to be the on the receiving end if you do get into a multi-car accident. Per http://www.gmc.com/yukon/xl/specsCapabilities.jsp, they weigh between 5608 and 6480 lbs!

Also, enjoy the gas mileage. When they tested the similar Suburban LT3 w/5.3L V8, they got 9 city/20 highway, 14 mpg overall.

[zindy]

Originally Posted by cwerdna

Sigh... at least you live nowhere near me. I already despise non-extended length monstrosities every time I see one. The extended length versions are even worse.

I'd hate to be the on the receiving end if you do get into a multi-car accident. Per http://www.gmc.com/yukon/xl/specsCapabilities.jsp, they weigh between 5608 and 6480 lbs!

Also, enjoy the gas mileage. When they tested the similar Suburban LT3 w/5.3L V8, they got 9 city/20 highway, 14 mpg overall.

Yeah put think about all the room i got to stretch out my legs!! Also have like 13 cupholder wtf! but he!! thats your opionin, I don't care for electric cars, unless they are the cheap remote controlled ones i had when i was a kid. maybe that's the future of auto's, but let's hope not!!

[bryan@Z1]

I can't believe someone would even jump in to this thread with all of the Prius stuff, if someone is in the market for a large SUV then they are not considering an econobox. No matter what the sales pitch is.

To the OP, hopefully you have better luck from your ride than my mom has had with her Tahoe. She absolutely loves it, but the electrical system has been trouble.

[zindy]

I am hoping the 08 is a little better since it is 2nd year run. I believe you said your mom's was an 07. WTF is up with the U? The last 2 minute drive made me want to cry. Maybe next year. They can figure it out.

[zand02max]

Filled up my Avalanche FULLY LOADED AND COMFORTABLE LTZ today for $6 dollars, yes 6 fukcing dollars!



Okay, so who ****ing cares that I got a whopping 13.6 MPG, it cost $6 for 3.776 gallons of gas! This thread cracks me up!

Oh and yes I would rather be driving a P/U or SUV during a crash!

Me 1, Prius Starbuck mochalatte frappuchino soy latte 0! Bet you spend more in a week on goat soy milk lattes than I do in gas! LMAO!

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by zand02max

Filled up my Avalanche FULLY LOADED AND COMFORTABLE LTZ today for $6 dollars, yes 6 fukcing dollars!

Okay, so who ****ing cares that I got a whopping 13.6 MPG, it cost $6 for 3.776 gallons of gas! This thread cracks me up!

Oh and yes I would rather be driving a P/U or SUV during a crash!

Me 1, Prius Starbuck mochalatte frappuchino soy latte 0! Bet you spend more in a week on goat soy milk lattes than I do in gas! LMAO!

Those 3.776 gallons took you ~51 miles. Those will take my non-hypermiling driven Prius ~173 miles.

Your gas tank is 31 gallons. I'll be the one laughing when gas prices hit $4/gal again and you pay $124 to fill up and I spend $47.6 while I can still go 125 miles further than you on w/my 11.9 gallon tank.

Sigh.. it's people like you who don't get it. You just consume and buy monstrosity vehicles you don't need without considering that your actions AFFECT OTHER PEOPLE.

Namely, it's in the form of greenhouse gases, pollution (EPA doesn't count CO2 as a pollutant), danger to others on the road if in an accident (your truck weighs over 5000 lbs.), terrible accident avoidance capabilities, consuming more of a non-renewable resource (thereby being a greater contributor to rising fuel prices), and reducing our national security by send $ abroad, esp. to volatile regions of the world and countries that don't like us much. Having something that has FAR worse than average mileage means you're helping contribute a lot more to this problem.

As I stated before, we import ~60% of our oil. Take a look at where the largest proven oil reserves are at http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/country/ind...?view=reserves. Take a look at this choke point http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/World_Oi...ts/Hormuz.html where nut jobs like Iranian president Ahmadinejad could shut it down if he started shooting. We have <5% of the world's population, yet we consume 20% of the world's oil production.

What happens when more people in China and India can afford cars? They both have more than a billion people each. China's middle class is about 300 million people approximately equal to the US' entire popluation.

When gas gets cheap, you care even less. It takes gas prices to skyrocket for people to take notice and do something.

I hardly visit Starbucks and certainly spend FAR less than $6 on average on coffee a week. I'd say it's ~$1, if even that.