ProEFI Release Date and Pricing!
01-21-2008, 09:26 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
Yes, the 128 unit can be purchased now and is $999 more than the 48 unit.
1. Are you going to charge anything for full tuning software (assuming the tuner judges the customer to be competent).
2. The 128 is available for the 350z RIGHT NOW for $3,250?
I know there has been discussion of locking/unlocking maps depending on the ability of the customer and the statement "Software will be available for the consumer" has been made multiple times. Question #1 is specifically related to any extra charge for getting a fully unlocked version of the product.
I for one don't like the prospect of being tied to a specific tuner for any change i want to make. What if he goes out of business? What if the only talented guy there quits and the replacement is some pimple faced burger flipper who is going to blow up my car? What if he is just trying to screw me out of more and more money to keep fixing my car that should have been right the first time? I figure that if I buy it then it's MINE and I don't want to be beholden to some douche tuner who is just trying to extract as much cash from me as possible (of course, not all tuners are douches, but some are).
BTW, who do you have in the San Diego area?
Last edited by BlackStar; 01-21-2008 at 09:49 AM.
01-21-2008, 12:08 PM
#122
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Sound Performance
Originally Posted by BlackStar
2 more questions:
1. Are you going to charge anything for full tuning software (assuming the tuner judges the customer to be competent).
2. The 128 is available for the 350z RIGHT NOW for $3,250?
I know there has been discussion of locking/unlocking maps depending on the ability of the customer and the statement "Software will be available for the consumer" has been made multiple times. Question #1 is specifically related to any extra charge for getting a fully unlocked version of the product.
I for one don't like the prospect of being tied to a specific tuner for any change i want to make. What if he goes out of business? What if the only talented guy there quits and the replacement is some pimple faced burger flipper who is going to blow up my car? What if he is just trying to screw me out of more and more money to keep fixing my car that should have been right the first time? I figure that if I buy it then it's MINE and I don't want to be beholden to some douche tuner who is just trying to extract as much cash from me as possible (of course, not all tuners are douches, but some are).
BTW, who do you have in the San Diego area?
1. Are you going to charge anything for full tuning software (assuming the tuner judges the customer to be competent).
2. The 128 is available for the 350z RIGHT NOW for $3,250?
I know there has been discussion of locking/unlocking maps depending on the ability of the customer and the statement "Software will be available for the consumer" has been made multiple times. Question #1 is specifically related to any extra charge for getting a fully unlocked version of the product.
I for one don't like the prospect of being tied to a specific tuner for any change i want to make. What if he goes out of business? What if the only talented guy there quits and the replacement is some pimple faced burger flipper who is going to blow up my car? What if he is just trying to screw me out of more and more money to keep fixing my car that should have been right the first time? I figure that if I buy it then it's MINE and I don't want to be beholden to some douche tuner who is just trying to extract as much cash from me as possible (of course, not all tuners are douches, but some are).
BTW, who do you have in the San Diego area?
1) The consumer software will be very nice, completely graphical. We are planning on keeping the cost for this software under or right at only $100.
The customer will have access to pretty much everything that any customer would ever need. Of course that is at my discretion but if you are a competent tuner I see no problem.
2) You are correct.
01-21-2008, 12:10 PM
#123
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Sound Performance
Originally Posted by rrmedicx
Not to get too far OT but can someone tell me precisely how the AEM wideband can hook up to the ProEFI to give the AFR signal? Do I tap into the AEM wiring? Any specifics would be appreciated.
Simply connect the 0-5v output wire of the AEM to the O2 input on the ProEFI. Just one wire
01-21-2008, 01:01 PM
#125
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Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
Yes, the 128 unit can be purchased now and is $999 more than the 48 unit..
Originally Posted by blackstar
2. The 128 is available for the 350z RIGHT NOW for $3,250?
Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
2) You are correct.
Originally Posted by booger
Can you give us a hint on a release date ?
01-21-2008, 01:30 PM
#127
Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
Simply connect the 0-5v output wire of the AEM to the O2 input on the ProEFI. Just one wire
Thank you. I am sold. Can't wait to get it. Sold my UTEC & I'm selling my boost controller in anticipation of my 48 unit to arrive.
01-22-2008, 12:28 PM
#128
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What features are available on the 128 unit right now?
Does the 128 currently control the electronic throttle?
Does the 128 currently control the cams?
Does the 128 currently talk to the rest of the car via the can bus? Has that been decoded?
What existing vehicle functionality do I lose when I remove the factory ECU? Does the 128 need the factory ECU to stay?
Does the factory dash still work 100% as it currently does?
Is the user software you described above currently available?
Can you post a screen shot of the the user software? Please?
What can the tuner software do that the user software can't?
Allot of those questions have been stated as capabilities of the 128 but they have also been stated as being "worked on". Since the 128 is available right now, my questions are regarding whats functioning in the released version right now, not in the future. IMHO the 48 is too limited for me to use so I am only considering the 128.
Does the 128 currently control the electronic throttle?
Does the 128 currently control the cams?
Does the 128 currently talk to the rest of the car via the can bus? Has that been decoded?
What existing vehicle functionality do I lose when I remove the factory ECU? Does the 128 need the factory ECU to stay?
Does the factory dash still work 100% as it currently does?
Is the user software you described above currently available?
Can you post a screen shot of the the user software? Please?
What can the tuner software do that the user software can't?
Allot of those questions have been stated as capabilities of the 128 but they have also been stated as being "worked on". Since the 128 is available right now, my questions are regarding whats functioning in the released version right now, not in the future. IMHO the 48 is too limited for me to use so I am only considering the 128.
01-22-2008, 12:41 PM
#129
^ I believe they already said the 128 unit will not control DBW and cams for a few months, but the factory ECU can continue to control these.
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=102
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=102
01-22-2008, 12:53 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by rcdash
^ I believe they already said the 128 unit will not control DBW and cams for a few months, but the factory ECU can continue to control these.
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=102
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=102
I just want to know what a 128 is if I buy one right now. Does it come with a wiring harness that hooks up to the factory ECU and the factory harness or just the ProEFI? Do I get a different harness once the ProEFI can do the throttle? Or can it do it now?
01-23-2008, 05:41 AM
#131
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Originally Posted by BlackStar
What features are available on the 128 unit right now?
Does the 128 currently control the electronic throttle?
Does the 128 currently control the cams?
Does the 128 currently talk to the rest of the car via the can bus? Has that been decoded?
What existing vehicle functionality do I lose when I remove the factory ECU? Does the 128 need the factory ECU to stay?
Does the factory dash still work 100% as it currently does?
Is the user software you described above currently available?
Can you post a screen shot of the the user software? Please?
What can the tuner software do that the user software can't?
Allot of those questions have been stated as capabilities of the 128 but they have also been stated as being "worked on". Since the 128 is available right now, my questions are regarding whats functioning in the released version right now, not in the future. IMHO the 48 is too limited for me to use so I am only considering the 128.
Does the 128 currently control the electronic throttle?
Does the 128 currently control the cams?
Does the 128 currently talk to the rest of the car via the can bus? Has that been decoded?
What existing vehicle functionality do I lose when I remove the factory ECU? Does the 128 need the factory ECU to stay?
Does the factory dash still work 100% as it currently does?
Is the user software you described above currently available?
Can you post a screen shot of the the user software? Please?
What can the tuner software do that the user software can't?
Allot of those questions have been stated as capabilities of the 128 but they have also been stated as being "worked on". Since the 128 is available right now, my questions are regarding whats functioning in the released version right now, not in the future. IMHO the 48 is too limited for me to use so I am only considering the 128.
01-23-2008, 10:10 AM
#132
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
What is it that you think the 48 is missing that the 128 will gain you so much over? As they stated, the factory control of the throttle is flawless, it may as well be mechanical at this point, and the stock computer controls the cams very well also...so why would you want to re-invent the wheel?
Do you have to have all these - no. The stock ECU can control everything. Heck, you can get Osiris, get your FI tuned with a larger MAF at a UpRev authorized tuner and not get an aftermarket ECU at all. Save a bundle too. And have stock OEM like reliability. But there are compromises in performance, driveability and flexibility. Just as with the 48 unit there are comprises. The 128 unit offers the most flexibility and potential for tweaking the engine for optimum performance. Is the 128 unit worth $1000 more for those extras? Is the 48 unit worth the $2300? Other options exist. It's an individual's choice of what's important to them...
BlackStar has some good questions above. I also wonder what limitations exist that consumers don't know about yet... (such as ability to decipher CAN based data - I don't understand why the 48 unit can't read wheel sensor data, etc.)
Last edited by rcdash; 01-23-2008 at 10:19 AM.
01-23-2008, 11:59 AM
#133
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r u still worried about semi-sequiential? maybe you forgot to year this
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
There is only 1 definition for "Batch" and that is once a rev, and all cylinders. Semi-sequential is as I stated. Then there is bank to bank which is the same as batch except it fires half on one rev, half on the other rev. Carbaratuers still puddle...the fuel suspended in the air when the intake valve closes (what can't get into the cyliner) puddles as soon as it closes. That is why no cars today have carb's...can't pass emissions. Your drivability issues refer to BATCH...not semis-equential. Semi-sequential is firing 3x more often than batch in this case. In the case of the ProEFi, the injector firing events happen every 120 degrees of crank rotation, on the adjacent cylinders... (I.E. they are being turned on a minimum of within 120 degrees anyway)......pointless. You may see systems full sequential at the same price, but you won't see those systems with anywhere near the features that really matter...adaptive learning... direct fire ignition...true volumetric efficiency...etc...
01-23-2008, 12:14 PM
#134
An ECU having full sequential ignition matters to me - the 128 unit has it - if it didn't matter, why did they include it in their high end unit? I don't understand why you guys are so enthusiastic about the 48 box, when the 128 unit seems to have it all. The additional traction control features alone are worth the price differential. I don't think most people mind that some features are initially disabled, as long as the developers follow through and hit their target release date. So many of the ECU's come out with updates all the time, so imo that is a non-issue. So I'm not worried about full sequential ignition - I just want it! I could overlook that if the traction control was just as good though... After going FI and realizing that gears 1 and 2 are useless on the street, I realize how much potential benefit a powerful ECU like the ProEFI or Haltech can have. So for me personally, I'm taking a close look at the traction control solutions for both platforms... (and again for me, cam phasing did help stabilize the power curve up top, so again, there was a small incremental benefit from having that in place).
I could overlook that if the traction control was just as good though... After going FI and realizing that gears 1 and 2 are useless on the street, I realize how much potential benefit a powerful ECU like the ProEFI or Haltech can have. So for me personally, I'm taking a close look at the traction control solutions for both platforms... (and again for me, cam phasing did help stabilize the power curve up top, so again, there was a small incremental benefit from having that in place).
Last edited by rcdash; 01-23-2008 at 12:21 PM.
01-25-2008, 07:42 AM
#135
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Originally Posted by rcdash
What's missing? Primarily (as I recall): cam control, injector drivers (forced to use semi-sequential fuel injection), wheel speed differential traction control, throttle control.
Do you have to have all these - no. The stock ECU can control everything. Heck, you can get Osiris, get your FI tuned with a larger MAF at a UpRev authorized tuner and not get an aftermarket ECU at all. Save a bundle too. And have stock OEM like reliability. But there are compromises in performance, driveability and flexibility. Just as with the 48 unit there are comprises. The 128 unit offers the most flexibility and potential for tweaking the engine for optimum performance. Is the 128 unit worth $1000 more for those extras? Is the 48 unit worth the $2300? Other options exist. It's an individual's choice of what's important to them...
BlackStar has some good questions above. I also wonder what limitations exist that consumers don't know about yet... (such as ability to decipher CAN based data - I don't understand why the 48 unit can't read wheel sensor data, etc.)
Do you have to have all these - no. The stock ECU can control everything. Heck, you can get Osiris, get your FI tuned with a larger MAF at a UpRev authorized tuner and not get an aftermarket ECU at all. Save a bundle too. And have stock OEM like reliability. But there are compromises in performance, driveability and flexibility. Just as with the 48 unit there are comprises. The 128 unit offers the most flexibility and potential for tweaking the engine for optimum performance. Is the 128 unit worth $1000 more for those extras? Is the 48 unit worth the $2300? Other options exist. It's an individual's choice of what's important to them...
BlackStar has some good questions above. I also wonder what limitations exist that consumers don't know about yet... (such as ability to decipher CAN based data - I don't understand why the 48 unit can't read wheel sensor data, etc.)
The currently unknown limitations are what I am really trying to find out.
There may be a software update at some point in the future that will let the ProEFI control the throttle, cams and add traction control but what about the wiring? Won't it still be hooked up to the OEM computer?. Will I be expected to do a rewire on my car to use the firmware update? Will ProEFI supply a new adapter harness? Will it be free of charge?
01-25-2008, 10:07 AM
#136
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Originally Posted by BlackStar
The 48 also has a single external O2 sensor where the 128 has twin internal etc... An additional benefit of the 128 is that it is available now and the 48 is not.
The currently unknown limitations are what I am really trying to find out.
There may be a software update at some point in the future that will let the ProEFI control the throttle, cams and add traction control but what about the wiring? Won't it still be hooked up to the OEM computer?. Will I be expected to do a rewire on my car to use the firmware update? Will ProEFI supply a new adapter harness? Will it be free of charge?
The currently unknown limitations are what I am really trying to find out.
There may be a software update at some point in the future that will let the ProEFI control the throttle, cams and add traction control but what about the wiring? Won't it still be hooked up to the OEM computer?. Will I be expected to do a rewire on my car to use the firmware update? Will ProEFI supply a new adapter harness? Will it be free of charge?
Both the 48 and 128 boxes are available now. However ProEFI figured that most people would want the 48 box....... therefore the harnesses for the 48 unit were finished first. If someone wanted the 128 unit it would be a special order for now (probably take about 2 weeks) so they could build you a harness.
When cam and throttle body control come online later this year, you would need to do a wiring change. I suspect that you could just send the adapter harness back to ProEFI and they would do it for you (Probably free of charge)
01-25-2008, 10:18 AM
#137
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Sound Performance
Originally Posted by BlackStar
What features are available on the 128 unit right now?
Does the 128 currently control the electronic throttle?
Does the 128 currently control the cams?
Does the 128 currently talk to the rest of the car via the can bus? Has that been decoded?
What existing vehicle functionality do I lose when I remove the factory ECU? Does the 128 need the factory ECU to stay?
Does the factory dash still work 100% as it currently does?
Is the user software you described above currently available?
Can you post a screen shot of the the user software? Please?
What can the tuner software do that the user software can't?
Allot of those questions have been stated as capabilities of the 128 but they have also been stated as being "worked on". Since the 128 is available right now, my questions are regarding whats functioning in the released version right now, not in the future. IMHO the 48 is too limited for me to use so I am only considering the 128.
Does the 128 currently control the electronic throttle?
Does the 128 currently control the cams?
Does the 128 currently talk to the rest of the car via the can bus? Has that been decoded?
What existing vehicle functionality do I lose when I remove the factory ECU? Does the 128 need the factory ECU to stay?
Does the factory dash still work 100% as it currently does?
Is the user software you described above currently available?
Can you post a screen shot of the the user software? Please?
What can the tuner software do that the user software can't?
Allot of those questions have been stated as capabilities of the 128 but they have also been stated as being "worked on". Since the 128 is available right now, my questions are regarding whats functioning in the released version right now, not in the future. IMHO the 48 is too limited for me to use so I am only considering the 128.
The 128 unit will do cam, throttle body and can bus communication. The first two are working and being tested now. The can bus code deciphering is going to take a few more months. Once it is competed, we cant see why you would need to retain the factory ECU at all.
User software is 2 months out yet and I do not have any screen shots as of yet. I hear it is going to be a very graphics orientated software.
The consumer software will give you access to EVERYTHING that you will need to completely tune the vehicle. Just like any other standalone software.
The tuner software of course is more powerful and gives complete access. However the consumer does not ever need to access such things as PID loops, pulse width frequencies etc.
For example, the consumer software would for example let you set up a pressure sensor for Nitrous. Now if you have a dry nitrous kit, the pressure sensor would adjust fueling to compensate for differences in nitrous pressure. The consumer would never need to know the math and algorithms necessary for this to work.... just how to set it up, etc. Just things like that .
For 99.9% of the tunes that I would do, I would probably use the tuner software myself!!!
The
01-25-2008, 10:46 PM
#138
Registered User
Hello,
I saw that Sound Performance released a sneek peek vid of there ProEFI Supra test box!!!
http://www.fquick.com/videos/Sound_P...p__ProEFI/4187
-Mike
I saw that Sound Performance released a sneek peek vid of there ProEFI Supra test box!!!
http://www.fquick.com/videos/Sound_P...p__ProEFI/4187
-Mike
01-28-2008, 07:46 AM
#139
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Originally Posted by SlideFox
Hello,
I saw that Sound Performance released a sneek peek vid of there ProEFI Supra test box!!!
http://www.fquick.com/videos/Sound_P...p__ProEFI/4187
-Mike
I saw that Sound Performance released a sneek peek vid of there ProEFI Supra test box!!!
http://www.fquick.com/videos/Sound_P...p__ProEFI/4187
-Mike
Last edited by BlackStar; 01-28-2008 at 07:48 AM.
01-28-2008, 08:04 AM
#140
Registered User
Originally Posted by BlackStar
Too bad it's not their ProEFI 350Z text box. Making a system run on a 15 year old car without variable cams, auto throttle or CAN bus system is just not that special. Besides, this is my350z.com, not mysupra.com!
My refrencing the video had nothing to do with the Supra tha SP had the ProEFI box on. It was mearlry to show you that they have the boxes and are begining to put them in vehicles. I will agree that there is more "technology" in a 350Z than a JZA80 Supra, but I will say this.... I have seen Jason work on a Supra EMS first hand, and it is by no means is a cakewalk!!!
All the "issues" Supra owners have run into in the past with AEM's or Motec's; Jason has incorporated the proper to tools into this box so they are no longer an issue, and I will never reframe from saying "THIS WILL BE THE BEST STANDALONE EVER!!!!!" I know that is a bold statement, but I know Jason, and his expertise and knowledge is far greater then anyone that I have ever met in this industry.
As for the 350Z, this EMS will be leaps and bounds beyond what is currently available. I have been a longtime true believer in other EMS's (HKS, Haltech, Motec, etc.), but after seeing what this box can do.... I am forever sold.
I politely ask that you do not respond to this post in this thread. If you feel obligated to please PM me. I apologize to Soud Performance for getting this thread off topic. Great Job Chris and Larry!!! Jason Choose Sound Performance for a reason to be there Primary authorized distributor.
-Mike