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Old 04-23-2007, 09:11 AM   #1
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Default How to reflash the ECU

There are a few companies like TechnoSquare, Cipher, etc... that will reflash your ECU in order to modify parameters such as rev limit, timing, A/F ratio, etc... (I'm sure you all know this already, I just wanted to put in a nice intro).

Now, the problem that I have is spending big $$$ to get a piggyback ECU (UTEC is VERY NICE though) or sending your ECU out to be reflashed and then not be able to play with it or have to send it back out.

Instead, can anyone or WE try to figure out a way to reflash/reprogram the ECU itself? There has to be a way because all of these companies can do it...why can't we? There has to be some software/hardware available. Also, Cipher is able to put 3 maps on an ECU so map selection wouldn't be a problem.

Thoughts?

Late,
Nick
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:43 AM   #2
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There has actualy been threads on this verry topic. The wall you run into is A) expence and B)propriatary software

You think the $500 or so is expensive for a flash, in some cases for the setup and licensing of the product and hardware to reflash your looking at upwards of 10G's. Thats where the high price comes in. Honestly it doesnt take but an hour or so to reflash and if you were a company that handles a large bulk of these; you'd have a database established where its a simple click on the set of mods and the values are there already.

So now to the software. The company that sell the setup has the right to pick and choose who gets there product. They dont want every Tom, Dick, and Harry to be putting out crap flashes with there product. You have to pay for training, the software, the hardware, and more than likely the licensing. So even though its available, its not actualy available to all.

So $500 in the grand picture.... yeah brotha thats cheap. Well unless you want to invest all that money and do free flashes. If thats the case I got dibs on first . Dont worry I'll get a spare ECU so you dont screw mine up


EDIT: Didnt address your piggyback/ stand alone comment. With the mear $800-1000 you can adjust the parameters countless times switch maps remotely, control extra solonoids and steppers for nitro and alcho/meth , turn on fans, control boost, get EGT's, and MANY MANY other features your ECU does not have. Hell in the right circles the right piggy back could get you laid!
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:43 AM   #3
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hehe not if u want ur car 2 run properly. theres things u can, and things u cannot do. and f'n w/ ur ecu is sumthing i strongly advise against.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:22 AM   #4
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punish her...thanks for the reply! Do you know who specifically licenses the software/hardware/training for the 350z ECU?

drift_projekt_Z...you HAVE to change your ECU for FI.

Late,
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:24 AM   #5
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its easy, just buy a Cipher from uprev.com or aam for about $400.00. then learn how to tune your car. oh, and f up. good luck.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:26 AM   #6
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i kno, i had a greddy tt setup previously. it had a piggyback unit come w/ it, so it was plug n play. the tn single turbo u hav 2 take out ur ecu, and THEY reflash it 4 u. u do not tune it yourself. trust me, leave it 2 the pros. one wrong thing and ur car wont start again. ur talking about $500 being expensive, u'll pay 3x that 2 get ur car running normal should u **** sumthing up
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:48 AM   #7
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If you are an accomplished Electrical Engineer, I bet you could design a home brew tuning system just by modding the voltages and frequencies of various signal wires.

But I'd bet it will take you the better part of a year, not to mention it will still be inferior to systems such as the UTEC.

The UTEC, like rome, was not built in a day, and it was not built by 1 person. You need teams of people for this kind of thing to have a successful project.

As for hacking the stock ECU parameters, you would need to be pretty brilliant in computer / software engineering and probably electrical engineering as well. There are not many people who could do this. Some of the people who do it are called Technosquare
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:14 PM   #8
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Wow, a lot of you guys need to come up to speed with some of the tuning that goes on out there. I am just starting to get into Zs as I am coming from Subaru world. I did lots of custom tuning there and the solutions that are available are amazing. With a tactrix cable, which is $80, you can download, edit and flash back the ROM back onto the ECU. I did my own stock ECU tuning and the results were amazing. The stock ECU is an incredibly capable engine management with features that blow away UTEC and most other aftermarket EMs. This was in the case of a lowly Subaru. I am sure Nissan programming isn't that much different in form of capabilites.

The way we did this on Subaru was:

1. Figure out which microprocessor the ECU is. WRX ECU that I worked on is Motorola HC16 which is quite common.

2. Get a hold of someone that knows assembly, embedded design well and has access to disassembly tools.

3. Dump the ROM and RAM from the ECU and use a disassembler like IDA Pro to deconstruct the instructions.

4. Try to make sense out o fit.

With this method, several guys with help of others developed a FREE flashing tool, which allows for editing of major boost, ignition and fueling maps along with some other cool features like defeating of specific CEL codes, altering closed loop AFR settings down to controlling at what coolant temp which radiator fan would kick on and off.

Guys, this can all be done. The hard part was to understand what you're doing and how to tune the car yourself. It's really not rocket science once you have the tools. I think a lot of people are intimidated by it and ofcourse pro tuners want you to believe it's black magic. It's not. For you sceptics, I am yet to hear of anybody from the open ECU project to fry their ECU using the tools. It's proven that it can be done. If you're curious to see what it looks like, check out www.Enginuity.org and www.openecu.org .

BTW, I used to own Cobb Tuning Stage 2 reflash and before I sold my Cobb setup, I actually downloaded the reflash ROM from my ECU that Cobb flashed and was able to examine exactly the things they 'tuned'. I was appaled by how little was changed and the money these guys were raking for such trivial changes. Most of the programming was stock. Boost was turned up slightly and some minor areas of fueling were changed. Almost no ignition adjustments. Lame. I know Cobb is coming out with a Z reflash soon, very similar to what they did to Subarus. I wonder how that is going to work out. Seems like they already cracked the ECU.

So, do we have any handy EEs willing to start working on this? Do we even know what microrpocessor the ECU is?

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Old 04-23-2007, 01:30 PM   #9
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Ziggyrama,

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! I have EE boyz that can help...plus I think I would be willing to expand my knowledge in the EE relm as well (I'm an ME).

h8bumps, are you down?

Late,
Nick
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Old 04-23-2007, 02:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyrama
Wow, a lot of you guys need to come up to speed with some of the tuning that goes on out there. I am just starting to get into Zs as I am coming from Subaru world. I did lots of custom tuning there and the solutions that are available are amazing. With a tactrix cable, which is $80, you can download, edit and flash back the ROM back onto the ECU. I did my own stock ECU tuning and the results were amazing. The stock ECU is an incredibly capable engine management with features that blow away UTEC and most other aftermarket EMs. This was in the case of a lowly Subaru. I am sure Nissan programming isn't that much different in form of capabilites.

The way we did this on Subaru was:

1. Figure out which microprocessor the ECU is. WRX ECU that I worked on is Motorola HC16 which is quite common.

2. Get a hold of someone that knows assembly, embedded design well and has access to disassembly tools.

3. Dump the ROM and RAM from the ECU and use a disassembler like IDA Pro to deconstruct the instructions.

4. Try to make sense out o fit.

With this method, several guys with help of others developed a FREE flashing tool, which allows for editing of major boost, ignition and fueling maps along with some other cool features like defeating of specific CEL codes, altering closed loop AFR settings down to controlling at what coolant temp which radiator fan would kick on and off.

Guys, this can all be done. The hard part was to understand what you're doing and how to tune the car yourself. It's really not rocket science once you have the tools. I think a lot of people are intimidated by it and ofcourse pro tuners want you to believe it's black magic. It's not. For you sceptics, I am yet to hear of anybody from the open ECU project to fry their ECU using the tools. It's proven that it can be done. If you're curious to see what it looks like, check out www.Enginuity.org and www.openecu.org .

BTW, I used to own Cobb Tuning Stage 2 reflash and before I sold my Cobb setup, I actually downloaded the reflash ROM from my ECU that Cobb flashed and was able to examine exactly the things they 'tuned'. I was appaled by how little was changed and the money these guys were raking for such trivial changes. Most of the programming was stock. Boost was turned up slightly and some minor areas of fueling were changed. Almost no ignition adjustments. Lame. I know Cobb is coming out with a Z reflash soon, very similar to what they did to Subarus. I wonder how that is going to work out. Seems like they already cracked the ECU.

So, do we have any handy EEs willing to start working on this? Do we even know what microrpocessor the ECU is?

There are a lot of people working on hacking the 350Z ECU. It is (probably) not an apples to apples comparison to subaru. Even if you can download the ROM and reflash it yourself, only a handful of people have figured out how to find all the fuel maps, timing maps, etc.

I'm not saying it can't be done by someone who's handy. All I said was that it would take them a really long time, and that it's typically TEAMS that work on this kind of project. In fact...

UpRev is one of those companies. Their cipher tool is amazing but doesn't currently have the power to tune the ECU... I believe they have something in the works, but it's not as easy as you make it out to be.

The hard part is not the tuning... at least, not if you're N/A. That part is easy once you have the tools in place.

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Old 04-23-2007, 10:33 PM   #11
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^^+1
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
There are a lot of people working on hacking the 350Z ECU. It is (probably) not an apples to apples comparison to subaru. Even if you can download the ROM and reflash it yourself, only a handful of people have figured out how to find all the fuel maps, timing maps, etc.

I'm not saying it can't be done by someone who's handy. All I said was that it would take them a really long time, and that it's typically TEAMS that work on this kind of project. In fact...

UpRev is one of those companies. Their cipher tool is amazing but doesn't currently have the power to tune the ECU... I believe they have something in the works, but it's not as easy as you make it out to be.

The hard part is not the tuning... at least, not if you're N/A. That part is easy once you have the tools in place.
Indeed. I did not mean to make it sound trivial. It's a lot of work and takes lots of time. It's by no means easy. I think what I was trying to say is that tuning the stock ECU is possible and perhaps if we can find a few people that have time and are willing to work on this, the progress could move forward a bit. The openECU project is significant enough where it's starting to effect vendors and created an atmosphere of competition among the vendors. That's a good thing because we, the consumers will benefit from it. I'd love to see something like this take place in our community. Maybe I'm just dreaming. Anyways, I am due to pick up my Z hopefully tomorrow. I'm very curious to get my hands on the ECU and perhaps figure out what kind of platform we're dealing with here. If anybody has any sources of info on the ECU, please post it up. I'd love to familiarize myself with it.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 350zfred5283
Ziggyrama,

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! I have EE boyz that can help...plus I think I would be willing to expand my knowledge in the EE relm as well (I'm an ME).

h8bumps, are you down?

Late,
Nick

I'm *just* an ME too, but since I'm smarter than you Nick, I'll help.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:35 AM   #14
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See attached wiring diagrams...this is a start!

Thanks,
Nick
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2003 Z33 ECU.JPG (167.2 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg 2004 Z33 ECU.JPG (205.1 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg 2005 Z33 ECU Page1.JPG (71.3 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 2005 Z33 ECU Page2.JPG (64.2 KB, 16 views)
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Old 04-24-2007, 06:59 PM   #15
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You should be able to pick up a used ecu from a junkyard or TurboToys.com and start disecting it. I doubt there is an ecu block diagram or technical manual floating around in the consumer market.

Maybe those of us going to ZdayZ could get one of the NissanUSA reps wasted and talk him out of a manual/diagram.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:00 PM   #16
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BTW, I work in a calibration lab, so if you need anything electronic tested, let me know and I can measure any signal on any part of any board or IC in the ecm.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:09 PM   #17
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I use the ECUTek for my evolution 8 and the program is free all you need to buy is the cable that connects the OBD to the laptop and you can program everything, timing, fuel,rev limiter, colling fans, etc. So I think its not impossible.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:06 PM   #18
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This is exactly what the Z community needs.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:54 PM   #19
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good luck.

this aint a mitsu
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:29 PM   #20
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Electrical engineers should make enough money to be able to afford a reflash and not f*ck with it anyways
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:29 PM
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