Does anyone else feel kinda cheated by Uprev's Osiris?
07-04-2010, 05:52 AM
#1
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Does anyone else feel kinda cheated by Uprev's Osiris?
I have had different tuning softwares before for different vehicles and I must say that Osiris is BY FAR the most incomplete tuner I have ever used. Every time I open it I realize how much I miss thing that I could do on tuners such as HP Tuners and Maestro7. Why does it cost $700 to have a software that does HALF what a $500 ( HP Tuners ) software can?
Why can't I read misfire count?
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
Why can't I adjust timing vs. intake temp or coolant temp?
Why can't I adjust knock control?
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
Why can't I adjust ecu torque management?
Why can't I adjust tire size offset for speedo?
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
These are just things off the top of my head. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly or I'm missing something, but the other softwares I've used can do all of this and more...yet cost less.
Why can't I read misfire count?
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
Why can't I adjust timing vs. intake temp or coolant temp?
Why can't I adjust knock control?
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
Why can't I adjust ecu torque management?
Why can't I adjust tire size offset for speedo?
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
These are just things off the top of my head. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly or I'm missing something, but the other softwares I've used can do all of this and more...yet cost less.
07-04-2010, 06:42 AM
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UpRev never delivered promised Cipher API.
UpRev never delivered promised knock count.
UpRev never delivered promised ability to connect external sensors.
Ok, even the most basic programming change, now 5 years after release, Cipher still cant remember parameters that were expanded - how much coding does it take to save extra flag in the options file?
But who gives the ****, as long as we are recommending it to the people that are buying.
UpRev never delivered promised knock count.
UpRev never delivered promised ability to connect external sensors.
Ok, even the most basic programming change, now 5 years after release, Cipher still cant remember parameters that were expanded - how much coding does it take to save extra flag in the options file?
But who gives the ****, as long as we are recommending it to the people that are buying.
07-04-2010, 05:52 PM
#4
Why can't I read misfire count?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust timing vs. intake temp or coolant temp?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust knock control?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
A. Good question. I am sure this could be added.
Why can't I adjust ecu torque management?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust tire size offset for speedo?
A. This would be a good one. I think the consult tool can do this
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
A. I believe it is there, just not in a percentage format.
Here are some like with similar software
http://www.nissandatascan.com/
http://www.blazt.biz/
Also saw this in the Datascan software.
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust timing vs. intake temp or coolant temp?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust knock control?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
A. Good question. I am sure this could be added.
Why can't I adjust ecu torque management?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust tire size offset for speedo?
A. This would be a good one. I think the consult tool can do this
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
A. I believe it is there, just not in a percentage format.
Here are some like with similar software
http://www.nissandatascan.com/
http://www.blazt.biz/
Also saw this in the Datascan software.
Last edited by cdoxp800; 07-04-2010 at 06:04 PM.
07-04-2010, 06:46 PM
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Why can't I read misfire count?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust timing vs. intake temp or coolant temp?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust knock control?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
A. Good question. I am sure this could be added.
Why can't I adjust ecu torque management?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust tire size offset for speedo?
A. This would be a good one. I think the consult tool can do this
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
A. I believe it is there, just not in a percentage format.
Here are some like with similar software
http://www.nissandatascan.com/
http://www.blazt.biz/
Also saw this in the Datascan software.
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust timing vs. intake temp or coolant temp?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust knock control?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
A. Good question. I am sure this could be added.
Why can't I adjust ecu torque management?
A. Is order to do this the Stock ECM must be capable of doing this.
Why can't I adjust tire size offset for speedo?
A. This would be a good one. I think the consult tool can do this
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
A. I believe it is there, just not in a percentage format.
Here are some like with similar software
http://www.nissandatascan.com/
http://www.blazt.biz/
Also saw this in the Datascan software.
Last edited by GT-ER; 07-04-2010 at 06:47 PM.
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07-05-2010, 07:25 AM
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No, I was actually just asking if they planned on adding those features in the near future. I never really even got into detail about it.
I'm no expert on the nissan ecu's, but you can see it do all sorts of things that you just have no control over and sometimes it's frustrating. I also sometimes want to better diagnose my car and can't even read which cylinder is having a misfire or if there even IS a misfire...but I know the ecu reads this stuff...they just have to add it in cipher.
They should download and use the HP Tuners software, I found it to pretty much be the best software out there and it's cheaper so they must be doing something right.
I'm no expert on the nissan ecu's, but you can see it do all sorts of things that you just have no control over and sometimes it's frustrating. I also sometimes want to better diagnose my car and can't even read which cylinder is having a misfire or if there even IS a misfire...but I know the ecu reads this stuff...they just have to add it in cipher.
They should download and use the HP Tuners software, I found it to pretty much be the best software out there and it's cheaper so they must be doing something right.
Last edited by GT-ER; 07-05-2010 at 07:28 AM.
07-07-2010, 10:54 AM
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Why don't you compare apples to apples? Domestic tuner suite vs import is NOT the same. Is there another NISSAN tuning system out there that has more capability that Osiris Tuner? I think you will find not. In fact the ONLY other end user tunable system is from Cobb and they are no longer supporting Nissan at all, outside of the GTR. You think maybe there’s a reason we’re the only ones doing Nissan when there are dozens of programming suites for domestics?
The HUGE difference between domestic tuning systems and tuning systems for imports is that the domestic guys get inside info from the developers and engineers who design the ECU and the software that runs them. They really have VERY little reverse engineering to do. It's pretty hard for us to get that kind of info from guys in Japan, especially when they are so much more protective of their IP. Nissan won’t even give you information about how to flash the ECU, let alone what does what in their code. It took us almost a year just to hack into the ECU in such a way that the re-flash could be done over the diagnostic port.
Everything that we give you guys’ access to has been reversed engineered by our in house developers from the raw binary file which has to be done completely in machine code. If you know anything about software development, you know that reverse engineering 1.5MB of machine code is no simple task.
I will admit, we have made some announcements about features we had planned to add that never got completed, but those ARE still in the works. We’ve been working on adding external WB logging support as well as logging non standard Nissan parameters like knock event and knock counter. The two big issues getting these new features added are
(1) we only have one full time developer who is spread REALLY thin adding support for 2-3 new ROMs every week, fixing bugs, and helping with tech support
(2) the non standard Nissan parameters have to be found individually for EVERY ROM that we support (currently we support over 360 different Nissan ROMs), but I assure you, this is still in the works. We have already added logging capability to the ROM editor so that the non standard parameters can be included in the ECU definition file and logged, but there are still bugs to be worked out so it is not released yet. It will get done when it gets done, but when our developer can only work on it for 1-2 hours every 2-3 weeks, it becomes a VERY slow process.
As for the lack of parameters to adjust there are also two issues
(1) because it requires a LOT of R&D time + access to the vehicle for testing, we only go looking for new parameters when one of our pro tuners says they really need them (tire size / gear ratio, knock window adjustment, and radiator fan temp are the only ones that are sill waiting on the request list from our pro tuners).
(2) these ECUs are MUCH more model based than ANY domestic ECU I’ve ever tuned. For instance, most other ECUs have a lookup table for injector latency by voltage where these Hitachi ECUs use a simple line formula (Y=mX+b). Same goes for the majority of the temperature compensations. Instead of having lookup tables based on temperature they’ll have a formula that takes a whole slew of parameters into account at once with a LOT less overhead. There is no reason to adjust the majority of these scientific models and we’ve even found that giving people access to them just causes confusion. If someone really finds a need for them, then we can put what we’ve found back into the editor but so far it’s done more bad than good for us on the tech support front so we have no plan to put them back out there.
This may come off sounding like a lot of excuses, but you do have to realize that we are a TINY company (only 4 full time employees) and we’re already spread very thin just trying to keep our current products up to date. Hopefully with some luck, we’ll get a larger market share with Cobb pulling out and we’ll be able to hire a couple more developers to speed these projects along, but until that happens, we’ll just be plugging away at this stuff like we have been for the last 5 years.
Jared.
The HUGE difference between domestic tuning systems and tuning systems for imports is that the domestic guys get inside info from the developers and engineers who design the ECU and the software that runs them. They really have VERY little reverse engineering to do. It's pretty hard for us to get that kind of info from guys in Japan, especially when they are so much more protective of their IP. Nissan won’t even give you information about how to flash the ECU, let alone what does what in their code. It took us almost a year just to hack into the ECU in such a way that the re-flash could be done over the diagnostic port.
Everything that we give you guys’ access to has been reversed engineered by our in house developers from the raw binary file which has to be done completely in machine code. If you know anything about software development, you know that reverse engineering 1.5MB of machine code is no simple task.
I will admit, we have made some announcements about features we had planned to add that never got completed, but those ARE still in the works. We’ve been working on adding external WB logging support as well as logging non standard Nissan parameters like knock event and knock counter. The two big issues getting these new features added are
(1) we only have one full time developer who is spread REALLY thin adding support for 2-3 new ROMs every week, fixing bugs, and helping with tech support
(2) the non standard Nissan parameters have to be found individually for EVERY ROM that we support (currently we support over 360 different Nissan ROMs), but I assure you, this is still in the works. We have already added logging capability to the ROM editor so that the non standard parameters can be included in the ECU definition file and logged, but there are still bugs to be worked out so it is not released yet. It will get done when it gets done, but when our developer can only work on it for 1-2 hours every 2-3 weeks, it becomes a VERY slow process.
As for the lack of parameters to adjust there are also two issues
(1) because it requires a LOT of R&D time + access to the vehicle for testing, we only go looking for new parameters when one of our pro tuners says they really need them (tire size / gear ratio, knock window adjustment, and radiator fan temp are the only ones that are sill waiting on the request list from our pro tuners).
(2) these ECUs are MUCH more model based than ANY domestic ECU I’ve ever tuned. For instance, most other ECUs have a lookup table for injector latency by voltage where these Hitachi ECUs use a simple line formula (Y=mX+b). Same goes for the majority of the temperature compensations. Instead of having lookup tables based on temperature they’ll have a formula that takes a whole slew of parameters into account at once with a LOT less overhead. There is no reason to adjust the majority of these scientific models and we’ve even found that giving people access to them just causes confusion. If someone really finds a need for them, then we can put what we’ve found back into the editor but so far it’s done more bad than good for us on the tech support front so we have no plan to put them back out there.
This may come off sounding like a lot of excuses, but you do have to realize that we are a TINY company (only 4 full time employees) and we’re already spread very thin just trying to keep our current products up to date. Hopefully with some luck, we’ll get a larger market share with Cobb pulling out and we’ll be able to hire a couple more developers to speed these projects along, but until that happens, we’ll just be plugging away at this stuff like we have been for the last 5 years.
Jared.
07-07-2010, 01:55 PM
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I like that reply, thanks for taking the time to type it.
I just wanted to make sure you guys are still alive and well and have intentions of updating the software.
From the list I originally posted up...I find these to be the most important:
Why can't I read misfire count?
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
Why can't I adjust knock control?
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
The simplest one ( I say simplest as I believe it has nothing to do with the ECU, just the software ) would be the last one. A smoothing feature would be FAR more helpful than just linear interpolination.
Also, I wish we could see the MAF table in 2D instead of 3D...it would also be much easier to work with.
I can't believe no protuner has asked for these things as I find them pretty much essential. But anyways....maybe you guys could do the smoothing feature and the 2D maf table?
Pretty Please? LOL.
I just wanted to make sure you guys are still alive and well and have intentions of updating the software.
From the list I originally posted up...I find these to be the most important:
Why can't I read misfire count?
Why can't I read Knock Retard from detonation?
Why can't I control my radiator fans?
Why can't I adjust knock control?
Why can't I see TPS percentage?
Why is there no smoothing available? Just linear interpolation.
The simplest one ( I say simplest as I believe it has nothing to do with the ECU, just the software ) would be the last one. A smoothing feature would be FAR more helpful than just linear interpolination.
Also, I wish we could see the MAF table in 2D instead of 3D...it would also be much easier to work with.
I can't believe no protuner has asked for these things as I find them pretty much essential. But anyways....maybe you guys could do the smoothing feature and the 2D maf table?
Pretty Please? LOL.
07-09-2010, 12:18 AM
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Can anyone else chime in, I can be wrong but I feel cheated because of this...
its lame that we don't get RTT( real time tunning) with our tuning version software. I was told it was only for official tuning shops to have and they are the only ones that should get the RTT since they are on the clock for customers.
I think that is lame for a few reasons
1) even though we aren't that big shop, we did buy the tuner so we can tune it ourselves. Saving that 30 seconds-one minute for reflash each time we make an adjustment adds up.
2) What if we are renting out a dyno. That still means we have to pay for even more dyno time.
3) In the instance of ecy life, I under stand they do and have lasted over 200 re flashes in some instances, but it would still be nice for us guys that go though many builds of our cars and tuning, wouldnt have to eat away at the life of the ecu.
Let me know if I am wrong and we get access to it now, but I had sent a few emails before with no response, then when I finally got them on the phone they said we dont get it. This was @ the end of last year... anything new about this issue?
its lame that we don't get RTT( real time tunning) with our tuning version software. I was told it was only for official tuning shops to have and they are the only ones that should get the RTT since they are on the clock for customers.
I think that is lame for a few reasons
1) even though we aren't that big shop, we did buy the tuner so we can tune it ourselves. Saving that 30 seconds-one minute for reflash each time we make an adjustment adds up.
2) What if we are renting out a dyno. That still means we have to pay for even more dyno time.
3) In the instance of ecy life, I under stand they do and have lasted over 200 re flashes in some instances, but it would still be nice for us guys that go though many builds of our cars and tuning, wouldnt have to eat away at the life of the ecu.
Let me know if I am wrong and we get access to it now, but I had sent a few emails before with no response, then when I finally got them on the phone they said we dont get it. This was @ the end of last year... anything new about this issue?
07-09-2010, 05:05 AM
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Can anyone else chime in, I can be wrong but I feel cheated because of this...
its lame that we don't get RTT( real time tunning) with our tuning version software. I was told it was only for official tuning shops to have and they are the only ones that should get the RTT since they are on the clock for customers.
I think that is lame for a few reasons
1) even though we aren't that big shop, we did buy the tuner so we can tune it ourselves. Saving that 30 seconds-one minute for reflash each time we make an adjustment adds up.
2) What if we are renting out a dyno. That still means we have to pay for even more dyno time.
3) In the instance of ecy life, I under stand they do and have lasted over 200 re flashes in some instances, but it would still be nice for us guys that go though many builds of our cars and tuning, wouldnt have to eat away at the life of the ecu.
Let me know if I am wrong and we get access to it now, but I had sent a few emails before with no response, then when I finally got them on the phone they said we dont get it. This was @ the end of last year... anything new about this issue?
its lame that we don't get RTT( real time tunning) with our tuning version software. I was told it was only for official tuning shops to have and they are the only ones that should get the RTT since they are on the clock for customers.
I think that is lame for a few reasons
1) even though we aren't that big shop, we did buy the tuner so we can tune it ourselves. Saving that 30 seconds-one minute for reflash each time we make an adjustment adds up.
2) What if we are renting out a dyno. That still means we have to pay for even more dyno time.
3) In the instance of ecy life, I under stand they do and have lasted over 200 re flashes in some instances, but it would still be nice for us guys that go though many builds of our cars and tuning, wouldnt have to eat away at the life of the ecu.
Let me know if I am wrong and we get access to it now, but I had sent a few emails before with no response, then when I finally got them on the phone they said we dont get it. This was @ the end of last year... anything new about this issue?
07-09-2010, 05:30 PM
#16
Can anyone else chime in, I can be wrong but I feel cheated because of this...
its lame that we don't get RTT( real time tunning) with our tuning version software. I was told it was only for official tuning shops to have and they are the only ones that should get the RTT since they are on the clock for customers.
I think that is lame for a few reasons
1) even though we aren't that big shop, we did buy the tuner so we can tune it ourselves. Saving that 30 seconds-one minute for reflash each time we make an adjustment adds up.
2) What if we are renting out a dyno. That still means we have to pay for even more dyno time.
3) In the instance of ecy life, I under stand they do and have lasted over 200 re flashes in some instances, but it would still be nice for us guys that go though many builds of our cars and tuning, wouldnt have to eat away at the life of the ecu.
Let me know if I am wrong and we get access to it now, but I had sent a few emails before with no response, then when I finally got them on the phone they said we dont get it. This was @ the end of last year... anything new about this issue?
its lame that we don't get RTT( real time tunning) with our tuning version software. I was told it was only for official tuning shops to have and they are the only ones that should get the RTT since they are on the clock for customers.
I think that is lame for a few reasons
1) even though we aren't that big shop, we did buy the tuner so we can tune it ourselves. Saving that 30 seconds-one minute for reflash each time we make an adjustment adds up.
2) What if we are renting out a dyno. That still means we have to pay for even more dyno time.
3) In the instance of ecy life, I under stand they do and have lasted over 200 re flashes in some instances, but it would still be nice for us guys that go though many builds of our cars and tuning, wouldnt have to eat away at the life of the ecu.
Let me know if I am wrong and we get access to it now, but I had sent a few emails before with no response, then when I finally got them on the phone they said we dont get it. This was @ the end of last year... anything new about this issue?
How to Get RTT. Did you pay for Osiris Tuner? Do you have the Cable License to use RTT?
Then download Osiris Tuner Installer.exe
07-10-2010, 09:27 PM
#17
Osiris has limitations but it also has functions that no other software has, in particular managing DTCs and the CEL light, as well as the drive by wire parameters. I have a Haltech but I would've been stuck without Osiris. I hope they continue to grow. Good news that Cobb has left the market. It's too small to have it split.
07-11-2010, 07:19 PM
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Osiris has limitations but it also has functions that no other software has, in particular managing DTCs and the CEL light, as well as the drive by wire parameters. I have a Haltech but I would've been stuck without Osiris. I hope they continue to grow. Good news that Cobb has left the market. It's too small to have it split.
I can understand it's a small company though....I guess it is what it is.
07-11-2010, 08:17 PM
#19
I just started doing an FI tune using osiris and I too am kind of surprised at some of the shortcomings. Alot of the issues I'm facing could easily be resolved in dev/software, not even cracking the ECU further... for example,
having to switch back and forth between osiris rom editor, cipher, then back again constantly, saving text files and importing between them
hex codes...WTF
3D tables that should be 2D
different names for same functions
no clear reference on what can be live tuned and what requires a reflash
manual is redundant and confusing
leaves timing values in 'nissan' format instead of converting to what we're all used to
either way, I'll probably be 20-30 flashes in until I've got the MAF curve ironed out
having to switch back and forth between osiris rom editor, cipher, then back again constantly, saving text files and importing between them
hex codes...WTF
3D tables that should be 2D
different names for same functions
no clear reference on what can be live tuned and what requires a reflash
manual is redundant and confusing
leaves timing values in 'nissan' format instead of converting to what we're all used to
either way, I'll probably be 20-30 flashes in until I've got the MAF curve ironed out
07-12-2010, 10:33 AM
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I have had RTT for over a 1.5 years now.
How to Get RTT. Did you pay for Osiris Tuner? Do you have the Cable License to use RTT?
Then download Osiris Tuner Installer.exe
How to Get RTT. Did you pay for Osiris Tuner? Do you have the Cable License to use RTT?
Then download Osiris Tuner Installer.exe
I did pay for tuner. 700, right after the price drop.
I was getting confused because I believe RTT is done in cipher correct not Osiris? (at least at the time last summer)
I was reading the Manuel and it says there should be a RTT in cipher.
I looked at the pdf and my cipher clearly didn't have the button that was in the instructions. so I called up rev, and they told me what I said in my earlier post, its not for me. only licensed tuners at a shop. Maybe they need to ask more about our situation than just to assume other wise......
maybe They sent me the wrong version to download a year ago. At that time the download for the software wasn't on the site, and they just stopped giving out the cds with the product.
I just turned it on and I see the tune car button, That definitely wasn't there before..... at least on the version that I had.
I just had bolt on's then, but now I got a built motor so time for me to play with it again.
Thanks for the advice, I need to spend more time here on 350z since u guys are more about performance and racing, than the guys on 35driver are mostly worried about how low they can dump their car and how far they can stretch their tires.
