Wanted: UpRev Tuning DIY - Tuning 101?
10-26-2011, 02:05 AM
#181
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is it okay to monitor knock with uprevs logging system or is that not sufficient enough?
10-26-2011, 07:31 AM
#182
yes im tuning on a dyno and the fuel maps have been adjusting accordingly with the use of cipher and tracing so i have a flat 13.0 A/F ratio from 2500-6500, ive tuned other cars before just not used to the uprev system and nissans, im used to DSMs where u just increase timing till knock and then back off a degree or two, so i wanted to get the opinion of some nissan enthusiast and tuners on whats the best way to monitor knock and adjust timing and what kind of numbers i should expect. didnt know i was going to get flamed for asking a question instead of blowing up a customers car by trial and error
Read the uprev manual and check out their recommendation for a knock device. They explain exactly how to build one and even link to it off their site.
Search this forum for dyno charts for N/A uprev tuned Z's if you want examples of what to expect. I can find dozens of before/after overlays.
Regarding how to advance timing...the Z has a gas combustion engine so your existing tuning techniques still apply...
If you have a specific uprev related question then by all means, ask. But for general tuning technique a new thread or some reading up on tuning sites and even the uprev manual is probably best. I was actually surprised about the amount of useful info in the manual, and the N/A and FI tuning techniques towards the end really helped me out.
Last edited by djamps; 10-26-2011 at 07:41 AM.
10-26-2011, 08:23 AM
#183
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No-one flamed you... but you are asking for info that is already out there, and your general tuning questions seem to imply you didn't search at all, not even the uprev manual.
Read the uprev manual and check out their recommendation for a knock device. They explain exactly how to build one and even link to it off their site.
Search this forum for dyno charts for N/A uprev tuned Z's if you want examples of what to expect. I can find dozens of before/after overlays.
Regarding how to advance timing...the Z has a gas combustion engine so your existing tuning techniques still apply...
If you have a specific uprev related question then by all means, ask. But for general tuning technique a new thread or some reading up on tuning sites and even the uprev manual is probably best. I was actually surprised about the amount of useful info in the manual, and the N/A and FI tuning techniques towards the end really helped me out.
Read the uprev manual and check out their recommendation for a knock device. They explain exactly how to build one and even link to it off their site.
Search this forum for dyno charts for N/A uprev tuned Z's if you want examples of what to expect. I can find dozens of before/after overlays.
Regarding how to advance timing...the Z has a gas combustion engine so your existing tuning techniques still apply...
If you have a specific uprev related question then by all means, ask. But for general tuning technique a new thread or some reading up on tuning sites and even the uprev manual is probably best. I was actually surprised about the amount of useful info in the manual, and the N/A and FI tuning techniques towards the end really helped me out.
i looked and didnt seem to find much, i have read the uprev manual but ill go through it again thanks again guys sorry for my noobish questions just trying to make sure i dont harm the car since its my first nissan/Z ive tuned
10-26-2011, 01:10 PM
#184
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well ive searched and read the manual and i still cant figure out how to A) trace in rom editor, and B) change the fuel compensation tables from HEX to normal decimal numbers, any help?
EDIT:: did more searchign and found it sorry once again for silly questions i learned my lesson
EDIT:: did more searchign and found it sorry once again for silly questions i learned my lesson
Last edited by twistedstover; 10-26-2011 at 01:39 PM.
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
#185
BFS is an equation that they show in the Uprev manual. It's a combination of basically everything multiplied together that equals the 'theoretical' injector pulse width needed to hit the target AFR.
MAF tuning is 1-dimensional. There's no RPM, BFS or 'data byte' to worry about... just voltage vs afr/target. So simple it's almost a requirement for street tuning!
Even though the ECU will let you enter more than 14.7 it won't actually target higher than 14.7. For NA, you want 14.7 for idle and cruising and 12.5-13.0 for WOT.
You should really be on a dyno to mess with timing... more timing doesn't always mean more power... putting timing just before knock doesn't always mean max power... it's trial and error. Best thing you can do for now is get your A/F's corrected, you will see some gains from that and it's much safer. Once you get on a dyno you can worry about max power.
MAF tuning is 1-dimensional. There's no RPM, BFS or 'data byte' to worry about... just voltage vs afr/target. So simple it's almost a requirement for street tuning!
Even though the ECU will let you enter more than 14.7 it won't actually target higher than 14.7. For NA, you want 14.7 for idle and cruising and 12.5-13.0 for WOT.
You should really be on a dyno to mess with timing... more timing doesn't always mean more power... putting timing just before knock doesn't always mean max power... it's trial and error. Best thing you can do for now is get your A/F's corrected, you will see some gains from that and it's much safer. Once you get on a dyno you can worry about max power.
Now in the UpRev tuning manual it shows this formula:
BFS = K * X * MAF. I understand K and MAF data sources but where is this "X" variable located in the ROM editor? It is referred to as the fuel adjustment value and is a percentage (decimel 0 to 1). The fuel compensation tables have "data bytes" as the load axis but I thought this was the same as BFS but that doesn't make sense if a value from this table is being used to calculate the BFS.
So why would BFS decrease as I accelerate beyond 0 psi even though MAF is definitely increasing? And what is the "X value" from the fuel adjustment table? And what is the "Base Fuel Schedule Modifier" described in section 11.7 in the Osiris guide v2?
Thanks for any insight!
Last edited by rcdash; 11-23-2011 at 08:51 AM.
11-07-2011, 08:25 AM
#186
I've done some data logging recently because of my issues with calculated load (now sorted out). I am curious why I sometimes see BFS decrease even though MAF voltage and gm/s increase. When I go from hard vacuum to 0 psi my MAF will increase from around 9 gm/s to say around 17 gm/s and at 5 psi it will be 23 gm/sec and stay pretty flat after that (does not exceed 3.4 volts in the 3" pipe it sits in - not sure why that is).
Now in the UpRev tuning manual it shows this formula:
11-07-2011, 11:40 AM
#187
So increasing MAF does not necessarily mean increasing BFS? Apparently not, but why not? I have a stock MAF (actually have 2 stock MAFs and tried swapping them - they both give similar readings).
If MAF increases, I don't understand why BFS would ever decrease. Weird. I'm glad I don't have to tune this thing! All my shifts are really strong - too strong on low load/vacuum shifts but I'll live with it rather than trying to tweak it.
If MAF increases, I don't understand why BFS would ever decrease. Weird. I'm glad I don't have to tune this thing! All my shifts are really strong - too strong on low load/vacuum shifts but I'll live with it rather than trying to tweak it.
11-08-2011, 10:18 AM
#190
Although I don't have any real calculations I always related BFS with engine TQ. If you look at dyno graphs you will see that BFS follows the TQ line pretty well. Take for example turbo cars have more of a hump to a flat TQ reading and BFS seems to follow that. Likewise with the SC cars it is more of a linear reading. Also in the higher RPM TQ will start to drop off like BFS will yet MAF voltage will still raise slightly.... Just something I have noticed but like I said I don't have any direct calculation between the 2...
11-09-2011, 03:11 PM
#191
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You shouldn't just advance it 'down and to the right' like you might be used to. You aren't looking at actual timing values, the numbers are basically multipliers for whatever the ECU 'wants' to do. For example, I have my 'timing values' flat top to bottom and still get timing of 13-18 degrees from 3k-7krpm. In otherwords, the ECU always wants to increase timing with RPM...so use lots of logging and trial and error on a dyno or careful street tuning and make small changes between pulls where you need to push it one way or another.. +/- 2-3 steps usually equals about 1-2' of actual timing change.
01-30-2012, 05:23 PM
#192
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How do I get a copy of the base stock tune to begin from? I have the tuner version (upgraded from a standard) and I have the Etune that came with the standard, but the ETune is not the base stock tune. I don't want to return to stock or anything (I have the AC810 BacktoStock.OSIRIS.rom but that doesn't allow tuning, as it sends the license back to the cable)
I want to flash the ECU with no tune (just the stock tune) and do some tuning from there, and despite having an MS in CS, I can't seem to figure out how to do that. I checked all the folders from my copy of the Oisirs Tuner version, and there are now roms in there, even in the folder titled ROM Tunes.
Am I missing something?
I want to flash the ECU with no tune (just the stock tune) and do some tuning from there, and despite having an MS in CS, I can't seem to figure out how to do that. I checked all the folders from my copy of the Oisirs Tuner version, and there are now roms in there, even in the folder titled ROM Tunes.
Am I missing something?
02-22-2012, 01:43 PM
#196
IMO street tuning is a very necessary part of nailing down your tune. Dynos are great for the high power portion of your tune but aren't neccesary (or even practical sometimes) for dialing in low load and long term trims -- the area of the tune where you are in most of the time.
Rather than sift through logs I wrote some scripts that parse hours of my driving logs and 1/4 mile runs and suggest subtle (or even larger) changes... it's worked very well. After getting my low load dialed in and boost A/F's to a safe (rich) spot, I went to the 1/4 track last weekend to get my boost A/F's nailed down and get a sanity check on the overall power based on trap speeds... more fun and way cheaper than a dyno. Took only a couple runs to get it right where I wanted it.
The only reason I would need a dyno is for the 'moar power' ****, which I'm not to interested in to be honest. I've got knock headphones so I can tell I'm already close to my peak power for a given boost level and my trap speeds confirm it.
Rather than sift through logs I wrote some scripts that parse hours of my driving logs and 1/4 mile runs and suggest subtle (or even larger) changes... it's worked very well. After getting my low load dialed in and boost A/F's to a safe (rich) spot, I went to the 1/4 track last weekend to get my boost A/F's nailed down and get a sanity check on the overall power based on trap speeds... more fun and way cheaper than a dyno. Took only a couple runs to get it right where I wanted it.
The only reason I would need a dyno is for the 'moar power' ****, which I'm not to interested in to be honest. I've got knock headphones so I can tell I'm already close to my peak power for a given boost level and my trap speeds confirm it.
I would love this scripting if you have it also I responded to your post about sending the UTEc for that software crack, lemme know where to send it
05-31-2012, 10:30 PM
#197
Hi there guys, i just bought the uprev tuner version and they also include an etune with it. All the maps on the tune is for 93 octane fuel. The question is, is it safe to run the map on a 97 octane fuel? Will be there any effect on it? Will i get a full potential hp out of tune? The reason m asking is because we can only get 3 grades of fuel here in my place, they are Premium Ron 97, Super Ron 92 and Regular Ron 85.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
06-01-2012, 01:14 AM
#198
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Hi there guys, i just bought the uprev tuner version and they also include an etune with it. All the maps on the tune is for 93 octane fuel. The question is, is it safe to run the map on a 97 octane fuel? Will be there any effect on it? Will i get a full potential hp out of tune? The reason m asking is because we can only get 3 grades of fuel here in my place, they are Premium Ron 97, Super Ron 92 and Regular Ron 85.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
It sounds like your fuel octane is rated based on RON alone.
Higher octane fuel does not improve/change performance, but reduces the opportunity for knock. So if you were in fact running a higher octane fuel, it wouldn't be unsafe. I expect that your 97 is pretty close to our 93 since AKI is going to be a lower calculated number.
Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Research Octane Number (RON)
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.
Motor Octane Number (MON)
There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load, as it is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON. Normally, fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.
Anti-Knock Index (AKI)
In most countries, including Australia and all of those in Europe, the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States and some other countries, like Brazil, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON).
Last edited by SparkleCityHop; 06-01-2012 at 01:27 AM.
06-01-2012, 01:25 AM
#200
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Totally depends on which country you live in.
Yes, I would expect your RON97 to be the same as AKI93.
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. See the attached table for a comparison.
So its safe to use the tune as long as i use the ron97 wth the 93 tune?
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. See the attached table for a comparison.
Last edited by SparkleCityHop; 06-01-2012 at 01:34 AM.