Wanted: UpRev Tuning DIY - Tuning 101?
09-17-2011, 05:23 AM
#161
Hey sorry i haven't been back for a lil while, had some stuff going on, djamps, i tried making a rom based on ur rom that you posted and made everything identical as u made, and when I flashed the ecu with that rom, the can wouldn't even idle. Not sure why that is but the car wouldn't run or drive. I did learn a few things from just seeing what you did with your map, which i implemented to my currect map and it made the car run much better, i fixed the timing tables as well, i log about 17 degrees BTDC at WOT. I'll post some screen shots soon of what I have ended up with. I had the warm start issue as well, but it seems to have gone away, well at least it doesn't stall out anymore. Not sure what I did, but i know i raised the idle to 800 at the start up enrichment table, and start up timing table i made the two warmest timing values 0, and when I lowered the minimum inj latency value from 2.4 to 1.54 it seemed to have helped a lot as well. My car runs well now with afr's around 10.5 at wot which i know is a bit rich but its a working progress at this point. I have a slightly adjusted target fuel table from this one where im seeing 11.9 afrs even 12.0 around 4000rpms and it it doesn't feel much different. Heres the main issue that im having that bothers me. When im coasting or keeping the rmp at certain areas, the afrs are more or less good. But duing the rev up period, or shift times the afrs drop down to like 10:1 area. Im not sure what that is causing by. Like i said im kinda trying to have this current map get close to where i want it, and it seems like I'm close judging by the way the car runs. Ill post those screenshots tomorrow with a log file and mayb even try to get a video up on youtube of the wideband and gauge cluster. Comment what ur thoughts are.
Different base fuel pressures (mine is unusually high)
Not sure if you have a return style system like I do (this changes everything)
Differences in low voltage MAF areas with HPX (no two are alike)
I also have the rich afr's between shifts. Not a whole lot you can do about it except pull some fuel from the far left column and reduce your minimum injector time. Even still it won't be perfect. There are hidden tables in the ECU we can't control that are probably contributing to these kind of things.
09-20-2011, 12:34 PM
#164
A couple of reasons your car won't run with identical values.
Different base fuel pressures (mine is unusually high)
Not sure if you have a return style system like I do (this changes everything)
Differences in low voltage MAF areas with HPX (no two are alike)
I also have the rich afr's between shifts. Not a whole lot you can do about it except pull some fuel from the far left column and reduce your minimum injector time. Even still it won't be perfect. There are hidden tables in the ECU we can't control that are probably contributing to these kind of things.
Different base fuel pressures (mine is unusually high)
Not sure if you have a return style system like I do (this changes everything)
Differences in low voltage MAF areas with HPX (no two are alike)
I also have the rich afr's between shifts. Not a whole lot you can do about it except pull some fuel from the far left column and reduce your minimum injector time. Even still it won't be perfect. There are hidden tables in the ECU we can't control that are probably contributing to these kind of things.
djamps -- my idle is wondering 1 -2 afr units while running, is there anything i can do to make it stay put?
09-20-2011, 01:22 PM
#165
If you have an HPX MAF you have to live with it, more or less. Some flattening of the MAF values in the idle voltage areas (in my case <=1.08v) should reduce or sometimes stop the bouncing. I was able to stop it with the A/C off but not when it's on. Too much voltage variation to flatten it all, bottom line HPX sucks.
09-20-2011, 01:34 PM
#166
If you have an HPX MAF you have to live with it, more or less. Some flattening of the MAF values in the idle voltage areas (in my case <=1.08v) should reduce or sometimes stop the bouncing. I was able to stop it with the A/C off but not when it's on. Too much voltage variation to flatten it all, bottom line HPX sucks.
09-22-2011, 11:39 PM
#168
Do you happen to know what the stock K Fuel multiplier value is? I ask because I plan on taking the % difference between stock injectors 380cc and my current ones 600cc, which i believe is 37% difference between the two. 380/600=.63(63%) 100%-63%=37%. Now if i can multiply the stock K value by 0.63, that should give me a relatively close value (37% less then stock) to what I would need. Correct me if I'm wrong of course. Im creating a new rom from scratch and I'm trying to start from very beginning so this is why I'm asking. I already set all my comp fuel values to 100, set my target map up so max load is right under 15, on my current map i didnt pass 13ms i believe. Just want to have a relatively close kvalue before i start looking at the maf values. thanks
09-23-2011, 04:22 AM
#169
The stock rom have a messy looking fuel and timing map. I flattened everything before starting tuning.
I wouldn't bother doing math for the K value. It's trial and error... uprev manual explains how to find it relatively well. Start with idle, then low load, then medium load, ect ect.
I wouldn't bother doing math for the K value. It's trial and error... uprev manual explains how to find it relatively well. Start with idle, then low load, then medium load, ect ect.
09-28-2011, 06:15 PM
#170
Just picked up Osiris Tuner. Where are the stock ROMs? There doesn't seem to be anything for me to flash the ECU with. I was under the impression that Tuner at least came with OEM ROMs to choose from or mess around with.
Last edited by T_K; 09-28-2011 at 06:34 PM.
10-03-2011, 04:39 PM
#172
Got a stock ROM from RT.
I've been comparing 2nd and 3rd gear WOT data logs to see how close to target things are. Car is a 2007 Base. The car mostly misses its targets, but not by much. I've compared the RPM ranges and tried to extrapolate a value that the ECU should be targeting based on BFS and RPM on the AFR table.
It's pretty much a stock vehicle, so it runs richer than the target pretty much all the time, typically ranging from .3-.5 off target. It amounts to single digit percentage variances. Would it make sense to try and massage the MAF tables, given that it's a stock vehicle, at the logged voltages to try and get the car to hit the targets?
I've been comparing 2nd and 3rd gear WOT data logs to see how close to target things are. Car is a 2007 Base. The car mostly misses its targets, but not by much. I've compared the RPM ranges and tried to extrapolate a value that the ECU should be targeting based on BFS and RPM on the AFR table.
It's pretty much a stock vehicle, so it runs richer than the target pretty much all the time, typically ranging from .3-.5 off target. It amounts to single digit percentage variances. Would it make sense to try and massage the MAF tables, given that it's a stock vehicle, at the logged voltages to try and get the car to hit the targets?
10-04-2011, 04:36 AM
#173
Got a stock ROM from RT.
I've been comparing 2nd and 3rd gear WOT data logs to see how close to target things are. Car is a 2007 Base. The car mostly misses its targets, but not by much. I've compared the RPM ranges and tried to extrapolate a value that the ECU should be targeting based on BFS and RPM on the AFR table.
It's pretty much a stock vehicle, so it runs richer than the target pretty much all the time, typically ranging from .3-.5 off target. It amounts to single digit percentage variances. Would it make sense to try and massage the MAF tables, given that it's a stock vehicle, at the logged voltages to try and get the car to hit the targets?
I've been comparing 2nd and 3rd gear WOT data logs to see how close to target things are. Car is a 2007 Base. The car mostly misses its targets, but not by much. I've compared the RPM ranges and tried to extrapolate a value that the ECU should be targeting based on BFS and RPM on the AFR table.
It's pretty much a stock vehicle, so it runs richer than the target pretty much all the time, typically ranging from .3-.5 off target. It amounts to single digit percentage variances. Would it make sense to try and massage the MAF tables, given that it's a stock vehicle, at the logged voltages to try and get the car to hit the targets?
By the way, you should (key word should) be able to log target A/F alongside actual A/F in ROM editor. I found there's much more logging options there compared to Cipher.
The alternative is to go to live tuning in Cipher, and turn on tracing for both target and fuel comp tables one pull at a time. You should be able to get everything ironed out in 3-4 pulls.
Last edited by djamps; 10-04-2011 at 04:38 AM.
10-11-2011, 05:40 PM
#174
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: new york
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What PSI are you running? Also I never tuned an HR so I am not sure if it's any different.. For stock compression I'd start with the entire map above 2krpm to 48 or 49 and go up from there. Also put everything except the 1st column on the target map to 11.7 at least initially until you've got your fuel schedule figured out in terms of where boost starts. You better get your fuel trims dialed in perfectly before you start increasing timing -- E.G. make sure you're ~11.7 and at full boost you're cursor is moving at least 80% across the map.
I understand the advance must increase with each rpm to compensate for the reduced time the spark has to burn the mixture before TDC, does that mean I should be advancing the timing down each column? or do I sound ridiculous? lol i have spent so many hours trying to google and read this
Last edited by Neal516; 10-11-2011 at 07:29 PM.
10-25-2011, 02:32 PM
#175
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: new jersey
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey all i just started working at a tuning shop and he has me in charge of tuning a 350z that came in, its our first one and we are using uprev, i had a few questions i was hoping you all could help me with.
first: in my fuel compensation table the values dont show up as numbers as ive seen in this thread in screen shots, i have a mix of letters/number so im forced to guess where my compensations are set at i just hit + or - and do a pull to see how much it was affected
secondly: the z is a non HR and is N/A with intake/plenumspacer/headers/exhaust. what kind of timing should i shoot for or is it just trial and error?
lastly: what kind of numbers are other N/A guys seeing so i know if my tune is even sufficient or im just wasting my time making adjustments or if it has more potential left in it.
any help is appreciated thanks guys
first: in my fuel compensation table the values dont show up as numbers as ive seen in this thread in screen shots, i have a mix of letters/number so im forced to guess where my compensations are set at i just hit + or - and do a pull to see how much it was affected
secondly: the z is a non HR and is N/A with intake/plenumspacer/headers/exhaust. what kind of timing should i shoot for or is it just trial and error?
lastly: what kind of numbers are other N/A guys seeing so i know if my tune is even sufficient or im just wasting my time making adjustments or if it has more potential left in it.
any help is appreciated thanks guys
10-25-2011, 04:37 PM
#176
hey all i just started working at a tuning shop and he has me in charge of tuning a 350z that came in, its our first one and we are using uprev, i had a few questions i was hoping you all could help me with.
first: in my fuel compensation table the values dont show up as numbers as ive seen in this thread in screen shots, i have a mix of letters/number so im forced to guess where my compensations are set at i just hit + or - and do a pull to see how much it was affected
secondly: the z is a non HR and is N/A with intake/plenumspacer/headers/exhaust. what kind of timing should i shoot for or is it just trial and error?
lastly: what kind of numbers are other N/A guys seeing so i know if my tune is even sufficient or im just wasting my time making adjustments or if it has more potential left in it.
any help is appreciated thanks guys
first: in my fuel compensation table the values dont show up as numbers as ive seen in this thread in screen shots, i have a mix of letters/number so im forced to guess where my compensations are set at i just hit + or - and do a pull to see how much it was affected
secondly: the z is a non HR and is N/A with intake/plenumspacer/headers/exhaust. what kind of timing should i shoot for or is it just trial and error?
lastly: what kind of numbers are other N/A guys seeing so i know if my tune is even sufficient or im just wasting my time making adjustments or if it has more potential left in it.
any help is appreciated thanks guys
Last edited by djamps; 10-25-2011 at 04:51 PM.
10-25-2011, 04:40 PM
#177
I am having troubles understanding how timing is adjusted in relation to load. Should I be advancing it down and to the right like I add fuel on the target AFR map? whats considered conservative timing/or aggressive? How should timing be set up in a N/A setup?
I understand the advance must increase with each rpm to compensate for the reduced time the spark has to burn the mixture before TDC, does that mean I should be advancing the timing down each column? or do I sound ridiculous? lol i have spent so many hours trying to google and read this
I understand the advance must increase with each rpm to compensate for the reduced time the spark has to burn the mixture before TDC, does that mean I should be advancing the timing down each column? or do I sound ridiculous? lol i have spent so many hours trying to google and read this
Last edited by djamps; 10-25-2011 at 04:47 PM.
10-25-2011, 05:42 PM
#179
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: new jersey
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes im tuning on a dyno and the fuel maps have been adjusting accordingly with the use of cipher and tracing so i have a flat 13.0 A/F ratio from 2500-6500, ive tuned other cars before just not used to the uprev system and nissans, im used to DSMs where u just increase timing till knock and then back off a degree or two, so i wanted to get the opinion of some nissan enthusiast and tuners on whats the best way to monitor knock and adjust timing and what kind of numbers i should expect. didnt know i was going to get flamed for asking a question instead of blowing up a customers car by trial and error