You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
Alright guys well Id like to see if we can get enough concrete info in here to make it maybe a sticky. Im no expert but Ive been reading for the past 5 hours straight, on difference between the 2 engines.
The DE's and HR's have very mild differences in tersm of performance. The DE's with bolt ons pull very similar 1/4 mile times with the HR's with boltons.
The HRs have 80% different, stronger internals.
What Im also wondering is, has there been any proof in which engine is more responsive to mods? Coming from an I6 owner, I was surprised to hear that the Z's V6 doesnt benefit very well from intake(s) over stock, and in some cases losing power. My I6 IS300 was not responsive to BPU at all in terms of power, but they did contribute towards better throttle response, high end torque, etc.
Betwen the DE & HR motors, which is more responsive to BPU? Im pretty sure its been established that the HR is more suitable for boost, stock. The HR's 7500 RPM redline is also a plus compared to the DE's, but by how far of a margin? Why did Nissan decide to go with the dual intake setup, for such a minimal gain? Does the HR's head flow any better than the DE's?
i had read up that the reason, Nissan went with the dual intake was due to more air flow to the motor and it is more fuel efficient. As for mods the HR puts down more power then De. I read some where on the forum that there is a new Reflush coming out for the HR that will supposedly give huge low to mid range gains. To conclude i think that it is harder to make high gains on the HR from simple boltons, because the car was in production for a long time now and Nissan tried to perfect on the car as much as possible. thus Hr owners will not benefit from intakes, headers.
i had read up that the reason, Nissan went with the dual intake was due to more air flow to the motor and it is more fuel efficient. As for mods the HR puts down more power then De. I read some where on the forum that there is a new Reflush coming out for the HR that will supposedly give huge low to mid range gains. To conclude i think that it is harder to make high gains on the HR from simple boltons, because the car was in production for a long time now and Nissan tried to perfect on the car as much as possible. thus Hr owners will not benefit from intakes, headers.
Yep, the reflash was supposed to offer somewhere between 11-18whp and roughly the same torque throughout the entire powerband, which is pretty good. Coupled with BPU parts, and getting it reflashed, it sounds like on of the best bang for the buck mods out there. Also as far as I can remember, it raised redline to 8K rpms on the HR motors.
Hmm when i was at the Nissan dealership I was reading the papers that they have on new cars, and the MPG ratings for the HRs and the DEs seem to be identical actually. I would hope thats the case, but Im not sure. Z's gas milage is crap to begin with, like my IS300. 20mpg is not that great.
To me it seems like Nissan did to the VQ35HR what Honda did with its F22c when it was produced. They maxed it out in factory form so that BPU parts didnt add much performance and in some cases caused loss of torque and power.
The DE's and HR's have very mild differences in tersm of performance. The DE's with bolt ons pull very similar 1/4 mile times with the HR's with boltons.
The HRs have 80% different, stronger internals.
Negative. Even if a DE engine had $4,000 worth of bolt-ons, the HR would still be quicker. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to the DE owners, but it's the truth.
I've only went to the track 2 times in my life, and I've already managed somehow with my novice driving to grab a 13.7 timeslip...
__________________
07 Magnetic Black Enthusiast 6-Speed | 20% Tint | Berk Test Pipes | AAM Competition Y-Pipe | Nismo Exhaust | Bridgestone RE-01R
Negative. Even if a DE engine had $4,000 worth of bolt-ons, the HR would still be quicker. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to the DE owners, but it's the truth.
I've only went to the track 2 times in my life, and I've already managed somehow with my novice driving to grab a 13.7 timeslip...
A DE with 4k in bolt on's will be running with a HR. I/Plenum/H/TP/Exhaust/clutch/flywheel/good tune will be way under 4k and should pull low 13's all day
I ran a 13.8 with a shitty 2.25 60 ft. in my 03 on my second pass ever on a track with intake, plenum test pipes, and exhaust. If i got more runs that night or ever get back to the track i could easily improve that time.
__________________ 2003 Super Black 350z/ 1991 Cherry Red Metallic 240sx Coupe KA-T _GO GATORS!
A DE with 4k in bolt on's will be running with a HR. I/Plenum/H/TP/Exhaust/clutch/flywheel/good tune will be way under 4k and should pull low 13's all day
Ok. Prove it.
Put $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods to your engine and go beat the best 07 stock time...which is 13.1 now.
$100 says you can't.
__________________
07 Magnetic Black Enthusiast 6-Speed | 20% Tint | Berk Test Pipes | AAM Competition Y-Pipe | Nismo Exhaust | Bridgestone RE-01R
A DE with 4k in bolt on's will be running with a HR. I/Plenum/H/TP/Exhaust/clutch/flywheel/good tune will be way under 4k and should pull low 13's all day
I ran a 13.8 with a shitty 2.25 60 ft. in my 03 on my second pass ever on a track with intake, plenum test pipes, and exhaust. If i got more runs that night or ever get back to the track i could easily improve that time.
Theres no way to do a real apples-to-apples comparisons between the 2, when it comes to modded motors. At least until tuning options come out for the HR, then you can at least do a full bolt on + tune of both motors to see which nets the higher gains, and overall output. The only things we do know is the HR comes with a more free flowing exhaust manifold, and better flowing intake manifold. It's still too soon to say what gains if any the HR really has on a DE that aren't attributed to those 2 things.
My main question was originally which motor was more mod friendly, but now I guess it appears since Nissan somewhat perfected the HR, it wont see as much power when modded like the DE's. Plenum and plenum spacer mods are now also out of the question for the HR's.
Which brings me to the next question. With true duals rangine from $600-$1400, it seems like a very bad cost to power gained ratio. Even for intakes for some 07 guys, have caused loss of power. For a $1000 exhaust only gaining 10whp(including test pipes), its $100/1or2hp gained.
What Im trying to get at is that it seems HR's...were built for boost =D
Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.
Those times you referred to are running a budget way over $4,000.
The number one spot is the only one that is obviously above that 4k. As for the others they should come in close, if they are high it would come down to axing off the exhaust purchase witch would have little to no effect on their times. I really don't care but 13.1 or lower can be done on a de motor with gears, drag radials, spacer, and a true driver.
^^
Ok. Fine. I'm not argue over something like that.
I just wanted to get my point across that the HR is considerably faster than the previous generation DE engines. The car is apparently half a second faster than previous models...I don't know about you, but I consider that a major upgrade for the 07, considering it retails the same as previous models.
__________________
07 Magnetic Black Enthusiast 6-Speed | 20% Tint | Berk Test Pipes | AAM Competition Y-Pipe | Nismo Exhaust | Bridgestone RE-01R
But seriously, what do you have up your sleeve? Are you expecting me to say, "I stand corrected Willie..."
Maybe I should re-state what I'm challenging the opposing debaters:
Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.
Look at the list, there are 5 DE Z's ahead of you. That right there proves that DE and HR are nearly identical in performance, with the HR being a tad bit quicker. If you are saying that someone with 4k in mods on a DE cant keep up with a stock HR, then you are just stupid.
And the 13.1 was done by a really good driver. One that can shave .6 seconds off your time with the same car.
^^
Ok. Fine. I'm not argue over something like that.
I just wanted to get my point across that the HR is considerably faster than the previous generation DE engines. The car is apparently half a second faster than previous models...I don't know about you, but I consider that a major upgrade for the 07, considering it retails the same as previous models.
Look at the list, there are 5 DE Z's ahead of you. That right there proves that DE and HR are nearly identical in performance, with the HR being a tad bit quicker. If you are saying that someone with 4k in mods on a DE cant keep up with a stock HR, then you are just stupid.
And the 13.1 was done by a really good driver. One that can shave .6 seconds off your time with the same car.
And those DE times were done by novice drivers? Negative ghost rider.
The best stock time for the DE is shown to be 13.6. The best stock time for HR, considering it's only been out for one year vs. the DE which has been out for over 4 years, is 13.1 .
__________________
07 Magnetic Black Enthusiast 6-Speed | 20% Tint | Berk Test Pipes | AAM Competition Y-Pipe | Nismo Exhaust | Bridgestone RE-01R
VQ35DE vs VQ35HR
