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when i see professional drifters run bc stance ect, i hardly consider those "cheap" or "knock off" sorry you overpaid for a name
If given money was no object, do you don't think these guys would run knock offs. Keep in mind that they're on a limited budget and if a company wants to throw 5-6 sets of wheels their way, or even monetary compensation to boot, That will save them thousands on their budget to be spend elsewhere. When we were young, we always had the poster of a Diablo or a Ferrari F50 because that's what we'd like to have. Nobody ever had a poster of a Toyota Tercel in hopes that they'd one day own one just like we didn't dream of running some Rotas when we first started building cars.
when i see professional drifters run bc stance ect, i hardly consider those "cheap" or "knock off" sorry you overpaid for a name
This doesn't make sense if it's directed at me.
Originally Posted by dvo
If given money was no object, do you don't think these guys would run knock offs. Keep in mind that they're on a limited budget and if a company wants to throw 5-6 sets of wheels their way, or even monetary compensation to boot, That will save them thousands on their budget to be spend elsewhere...
Yeaaaahhhhhh....let me spend 10's of thousands on motor and brakes and I'll just grab whatever they got laying around for my suspension. THAT seems safe AND fiscally responsible. WIN-WIN
So, anywho, back in here in the mystical world of reality land, we just say we don't like something and move on. For instance, I don't particularly like Rotas. But, I'm not fundamentally against the concept of rotas existing.
Quick question. Do any of you guys eat chicken nuggets? IF you do, do you only eat chicken nuggets from McDonald's and refuse to eat chicken nuggets from other places because those are "rep nuggets"?(Mcdonald's was the first fast food company to use chicken nuggets fyi) I just wanted to know if anyone applies this ridiculous philosophy, that's really nothing more than elitism, to every facet of your life.
Do you guys only chew chiclets because 5gum is a "knock-off" brand?
Do guys refuse to drink V8 now because now that everyone has access to it, it doesn't have the same horrible taste?
Are you against all copiers that aren't Xerox copiers because anyone who uses other copiers is just using a cheap Chinese knock-off that's going to cause a catastrophic copy failure at some point?
Alright, I'm done. lol.
Last edited by driftsucky; 09-02-2015 at 07:22 AM.
You made a very good point driftsucky... I love rep nuggets! I'll rock rep wheels all day and wish someone would point and laugh in my face about it. I just can't justify spending $5k on wheels for my daily. It's not about being cheap or not being able to afford it, it's just that I'm not in the show or race car business. Also the thought of me denting a $1200 rim from a pothole makes me cringe. I give props to all those guys who are able to blow money on those fancy wheels. I just hate it when people will search threads just to bash another enthusiast because he or she chose to spend there hard earned money "cheap" wheels.
Yeaaaahhhhhh....let me spend 10's of thousands on motor and brakes and I'll just grab whatever they got laying around for my suspension. THAT seems safe AND fiscally responsible. WIN-WIN
So, anywho, back in here in the mystical world of reality land, we just say we don't like something and move on. For instance, I don't particularly like Rotas. But, I'm not fundamentally against the concept of rotas existing.
Quick question. Do any of you guys eat chicken nuggets? IF you do, do you only eat chicken nuggets from McDonald's and refuse to eat chicken nuggets from other places because those are "rep nuggets"?(Mcdonald's was the first fast food company to use chicken nuggets fyi) I just wanted to know if anyone applies this ridiculous philosophy, that's really nothing more than elitism, to every facet of your life.
Do you guys only chew chiclets because 5gum is a "knock-off" brand?
Do guys refuse to drink V8 now because now that everyone has access to it, it doesn't have the same horrible taste?
Are you against all copiers that aren't Xerox copiers because anyone who uses other copiers is just using a cheap Chinese knock-off that's going to cause a catastrophic copy failure at some point?
Chicken nuggets are a concept, not a design. If Mcdonalds and Burger King both serve chicken nuggets, neither will care as they will have their own unique recipes which each company will theoretically feel is superior than their competitor's recipe.
Replica wheels don't copy a concept, they plagiarize a specific design of that concept that someone else came up with.
Since you like the food comparison, it would be as if some no name cola company managed to get their hands on coca cola's recipe (imagine if private recipes were widely available with no way of protecting it, as is the case with wheel designs) and started producing an exact copy of coca cola, down to the exact gram of sweetener. There would be an issue there.
You made a very good point driftsucky... I love rep nuggets! I'll rock rep wheels all day and wish someone would point and laugh in my face about it. I just can't justify spending $5k on wheels for my daily. It's not about being cheap or not being able to afford it, it's just that I'm not in the show or race car business. Also the thought of me denting a $1200 rim from a pothole makes me cringe. I give props to all those guys who are able to blow money on those fancy wheels. I just hate it when people will search threads just to bash another enthusiast because he or she chose to spend there hard earned money "cheap" wheels.
There are plenty of high quality wheels that don't cost anything close to $5,000, even brand new, and even better, aren't unethical rip offs of other wheels. Enkei makes great, lightweight wheels for anywhere from 300 to 500 per wheel depending on the sizes. So why insist on downgrading your stock wheels for the lowest quality aftermarket wheels you can find?
I have yet to see a replica wheel that are the "exact" same specifications as the real one or the "exact" same design. There is a reason why those companies are allowed to sell there wheels in the U.S. Because they are not exact copies. If Rota marked their wheels "Made is the U.S." With Rotiform logos then you can call that "Replica".
And yes Phenom I understand not every aftermarket wheel cost $5k. I was just using that as a example. I understand some of the points you make but why let someone else's choice In wheels frustrate you?
I have yet to see a replica wheel that are the "exact" same specifications as the real one or the "exact" same design. There is a reason why those companies are allowed to sell there wheels in the U.S. Because they are not exact copies. If Rota marked their wheels "Made is the U.S." With Rotiform logos then you can call that "Replica".
And yes Phenom I understand not every aftermarket wheel cost $5k. I was just using that as a example. I understand some of the points you make but why let someone else's choice In wheels frustrate you?
The only reason they aren't exact is because they don't have access to the detail drawings and CNC programming for the real designs. I've seen te37 knock offs with "TE37" embossed in the spokes.
Posers and spineless companies bother me, what can I say?
Chicken nuggets are a concept, not a design. If Mcdonalds and Burger King both serve chicken nuggets, neither will care as they will have their own unique recipes which each company will theoretically feel is superior than their competitor's recipe.
Replica wheels don't copy a concept, they plagiarize a specific design of that concept that someone else came up with.
Since you like the food comparison, it would be as if some no name cola company managed to get their hands on coca cola's recipe (imagine if private recipes were widely available with no way of protecting it, as is the case with wheel designs) and started producing an exact copy of coca cola, down to the exact gram of sweetener. There would be an issue there.
Dairy Queen food is an EXACT copy of Burger King. Wanna know why? Because they use the same company. Burger King's ice cream is just Dairy Queens. They are not a subsidiary of each other nor are they sister companies.
Hardee's only recently acquired Carl's Jr. Until then, SAME food. Shoney's Big Boy and Frische's weren't sister companies until 2001.
Furthermore, there is no EXACT copy of a wheel from another manufacturer on the market right now. Let's take the Work Meister SP1 (hands down my favorite wheel of all time) and the Varrstoen ES6 (that shares a striking likeness). ONe is a 2 piece wheel and one is a 1 piece wheel. Guess what that means...NOT AN EXACT COPY. Did I just blow your mind? Are you amused at how I was able to debunk the staple of your argument with the most obvious of holes? Don't be. It wasn't a big deal. Also, because you're reaching and not being honest, it makes it kind of easy to do.
Enough of that though. Here's the REALITY. Work and SSR make beautiful wheels. I mean, designs that are truly timeless. Let's be honest, if money was NO object, I think that's what everyone would run. But, money IS an object. And not everyone WANTS to spend that kind of money. The issue is that people who DO spend that kind of money don't want people who DIDN'T spend that kind of money to look like them. THAT'S the real issue. It isn't about "track-tested" wheels or wheels that are inexpensive but "legit" or anything like that. If I have a vehicle that I drive on the street and maybe hit up the occasional meet or GTG, I might not want to spend 4k or 3k on "baller" wheels to "kill the game". I may want something nice that looks good. And that's where Rota, Varrs, Zed, and others come in. They make nice wheels that look good. And if they failed as much as elitist said they did, they'd be bankrupt from various lawsuits and class action suits. However, they are not. Is the process the same as these Japanese companies? No. But, it doesn't HAVE to be.
This is just a continuation of the JDM craze of the 90's and the "fake badges" fiasco of the 70's. At the end of the day, if I'm an enthusiast, and I work hard, save up, spend blood sweat and tears to save up for this legit part, I don't want some punk kid to just pull out a credit card, spend 1/3 of what I did, and look just like me. And that's being 100% REAL. And if that kid looks just like me and then PRETENDS he/she has the same parts, I'm gonna be even MORE pissed. I can really understand why people don't like the whole replica wheel thing...just like we didn't like rep JDM parts (knock-off spoon/mugen/nismo/trd/etc) and fake badges (hemi/302/ss/boss/etc). That's just human nature. But, for once, I wish people would just be real about what it is. The parts don't cause catastrophic failure. I'm sure if you did an independent study, you would see similar damage across the board given similar use. And even if you didn't, it wouldn't be enough of a variance to cause alarm
Furthermore, there is no EXACT copy of a wheel from another manufacturer on the market right now. Let's take the Work Meister SP1 (hands down my favorite wheel of all time) and the Varrstoen ES6 (that shares a striking likeness). ONe is a 2 piece wheel and one is a 1 piece wheel. Guess what that means...NOT AN EXACT COPY. Did I just blow your mind? Are you amused at how I was able to debunk the staple of your argument with the most obvious of holes? Don't be. It wasn't a big deal. Also, because you're reaching and not being honest, it makes it kind of easy to do.
The simple reason for that is because it's cheaper for Varrstoen to manufacturer it that way and they know the ricer posers who buy their crap either don't understand or don't care about the difference.
Originally Posted by driftsucky
Enough of that though. Here's the REALITY. Work and SSR make beautiful wheels. I mean, designs that are truly timeless. Let's be honest, if money was NO object, I think that's what everyone would run. But, money IS an object. And not everyone WANTS to spend that kind of money. The issue is that people who DO spend that kind of money don't want people who DIDN'T spend that kind of money to look like them. THAT'S the real issue. It isn't about "track-tested" wheels or wheels that are inexpensive but "legit" or anything like that. If I have a vehicle that I drive on the street and maybe hit up the occasional meet or GTG, I might not want to spend 4k or 3k on "baller" wheels to "kill the game". I may want something nice that looks good. And that's where Rota, Varrs, Zed, and others come in. They make nice wheels that look good. And if they failed as much as elitist said they did, they'd be bankrupt from various lawsuits and class action suits. However, they are not. Is the process the same as these Japanese companies? No. But, it doesn't HAVE to be.
It's not that cut and dry. It's not just the people who paid for the real thing having animosity towards the kids who bought the garbage wheels but expect the same recognition of having a "modded car." Car enthusiasts usually take a real liking to particular brands, companies, manufactures, whatever. We want to see them be successful because their parts have served us well. They earn a little bit of our loyalty by producing stuff that we can trust and rely on. When we see these companies like varrstoen shamelessly selling stolen designs, you can't be surprised when people with brand loyalty towards the company THEY STOLE FROM raise an issue with the unethical behavior.
If you want to rock BC coilovers and Varrstoens and whatever other third world garbage you can slap on a car, be my guest, just learn to take the good with the bad though. A bunch of kids who don't know any better might give you sick props for your sick ride, but you're asking for criticism from the guys who respect the industry and the z platform.
OK now, just where did I put that rant of mine written a week ago disappear to.... Oh, right, here it is - and if it looks familiar, it should... I've posted it twice already and I'm gonna weigh in and post it on every thread that denigrates into flame wars about "real versus copy"...
------------------
"Jebuss people, who or why should anyone care what anyone else buys or uses???
If you think the "poseur wheels" are crap, fine, you ain't running them.
And likewise, people wanna spend their hard earned money on a set of $4000 wheels and suffer from the "lighter-and-more-difficult-to-pay-the-bills-pocketbook-with-only-marginal-performance-increase-but-damm-they-look-f'n-awesome-while-cruisin'-Santana-Row" syndrome, hey, WHAT. EVER.
Friendly, useful advice - in this case, about the low quality of some rep wheels - is always welcomed but this incessant flaming and diminishing of the signal-to-noise ratio because one doesn't agree with someone else's choice of wheels is just unadultered bovine feces.
Along those lines, people gotta stop concerning themselves with what other people think of their cars and do what's right by themselves because ultimately, no one really cares if you run Rays or copies - except yourself. This "building my car by consensus" crap is just stupid.
And if someone is passing judgement on my or anyone else's car or choice of equipment, well, that speaks to that person's own insecurities. Fehhhhhhh....
I waste a lot of free time here, yes - something I worked hard to have - but this is just mind rot.
O-U-T...."
--------------------
But seriously, the point is that sh*t happens, things break, no matter how expensive or forged or made of unobtainium it is. Arguably a greater chance of that happening with copies but.... You get what you paid for RELATIVE to how it's used.
You're an easy driver and commuting to work or school, a set of Zedvarrota replicas will likely be more than adequate. You want or need more and can afford it.... go for the RayvolkwedBBSSRs.... who really cares? It's YOUR car.
Honestly, didn't read through the arguments in their entirety because frankly, the lines are blurry between who's side anyone is on.
Some of these may be full on race cars and wheels can break when you have very sticky tires and launching, just like suspension arms can break as well. The regular work emotion series wheels are standard cast wheel. Now their 1 piece wheels are Flow Formed. Regarding the other wheels like the VOlk or the Lotus wheel, I wonder what type impact made those break bend. Yes, even "high end" wheels will break but usually it takes quite a substantial impact to do so.
and this picture you posted, I'm gonna say it's a fake wheel.
The above pictured wheel has a regular rubber based valve like all other reps(supposed be metal with rubber grommet) and the face doesn't have the BBS stampings like it should.
I never owned BBS wheels but I've seen a ton. U can buy a BBS valve stem cap off eBay and just because it's a all rubber valve stem doesnt make it a fake wheel. Valve stems are wear items and are usually replaced when u buy new tires. I have Rotas and the upper parts of my stems are metal because of the TPMS sensors.
wonder how many oz its going to take to balance these wheels.... my gram required a total of 1 oz. 2 wheels didnt even needed any....now THATS qualitty.
Some owners paid $35k for their Zs and roll on $3.5k wheels but can't understand why anyone would roll on $500 dollar cheap wheels. While the newbs who paid $6k for their zs can't understand why anyone would drop $3.5k on wheels. lol
Buy what your budget allows, I wouldn't recommend a college student blow their student loans on a set of Volks which I've seen some fishy members do on the Evo forums. If some $500 dollar wheels is where your budget allows, all good. I buy both authentic Japanese wheels and budget rollers for fun.
I don't know why the hell some people stay posting negative comments and not FOCUS this thread is for Zedd owners and their car. So, if you are here to post a quality and rep talks, it is not the right page for you.
I PAID $8,300 for my Z why the hell I will pay a $3,500 for wheels? Also $1000 for tires ? That's %50 of my car value, so stfu and if you do it, just to say "you have a Work wheels" you are stupid .. I'm not meaning any person but I'm talking about my opinion .
Wait a second I'm not done yet. My car is daily drive and I'm kind of person who don't race or drift. Also,I am rarely to pass 75 mils per hour . So my point is that quality and blah blah blah is not necessary for me .
Now before I end this long *** post, DONT REPLAY TO ME. This thread created for Zedd owners as what I described in the first page. Omg some ppl can't understand.
09-01-2015, 09:34 AM
