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Crazy lease pricing for 2006 ZR's
I continue to be amazed at the lease prices of Z roadsters. I am at then end of my 2002 Boxster's lease and want to step down a bit in payments. The figures I received for a ZR are HIGHER than what a new 2006 Boxster would be. Don't get me wrong, a ZR is a nice car, but it does not touch a Boxster in terms of the driving experience and build quality(as it should not for the $10K difference in price). I can lease a 2006 Honda S2000 for $400/mth including tax(which is only $3-4 K less than a ZR touring edition). My question, why would you pick a ZR over a Boxster if the lease price were the same?
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Never cared much for leasing myself. Seems like a waste of money...
But back on topic... If the lease price is the same I would have to go with the boxster... btw, is the lease terms the same as far as anual mileage goes and how much it will cost if you go over that mileage? |
Your payements should be based on the negotiated price of car. If the lease payments quotes are higher than the boxster, someone is trying to screw you over. Try another dealer.
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Originally Posted by crazygideon
Your payements should be based on the negotiated price of car. If the lease payments quotes are higher than the boxster, someone is trying to screw you over. Try another dealer.
I got the same thing with a Mustang GT convertible. You can lease a $21K V6 Mustang coupe for $269/mth with $2K at signing. I was quoted $640/mth with $1500 at signing on a $33K GT convertible today. This has been consistant with several Ford dealers. I like the 350zR but not enough to pay a premium for it. The S2000 will get my vote... |
Originally Posted by Built2shredZ
But back on topic... If the lease price is the same I would have to go with the boxster... btw, is the lease terms the same as far as anual mileage goes and how much it will cost if you go over that mileage?
Annual mileage is similar for the Boxster, typically 12K a year and I think the cost for overage is about the same .20-.30/mile. Most of the time that rate is based on the MSRP. Higher MSRP = higher mileage charge. |
Only thing I can think of is the 350z roadster is a hot item right now and there selling them off pretty fast. I think manfuactors lower the lease when cars are not selling as good to try and drum up bussiness... Probably why your seeing the same thing with the Mustang Convertable, its a hot item at the moment and the dealerships would rather sell them then lease them. Once there popularity drops you should be able to lease one a lot cheaper...
Thats my take on it anyways :) |
I always thought that they would rather lease than sell = more profit for them.
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Originally Posted by gringott
I always thought that they would rather lease than sell = more profit for them.
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Originally Posted by chickdr
Actually leasing can be a great tool if the manufacturer has good offers. The current lease offer on the S2000 has an interest rate of under 2%. That is less than the finance rate.
Annual mileage is similar for the Boxster, typically 12K a year and I think the cost for overage is about the same .20-.30/mile. Most of the time that rate is based on the MSRP. Higher MSRP = higher mileage charge. nissan only charges 15 cents a mile. msrp has nothing to do with it on a nissan |
I would imagine the banks who buy the loan agreaments from the dealership would prefer people who buy there cars over those who lease. According to what someone said above leases usally only net 2% intreast while people who buy usally pay around 6%.
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Originally Posted by Built2shredZ
I would imagine the banks who buy the loan agreaments from the dealership would prefer people who buy there cars over those who lease. According to what someone said above leases usally only net 2% intreast while people who buy usally pay around 6%.
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Perhaps the outrageous lease price has to do with what Nissan expects the car to be worth (residual as stated before) when they get it back. Face it, you don't get too many 20-year olds leasing and beating up Boxsters, but you would get plenty that would like to do that with a Z. I would bet it has something to do with the demographics of who the typical Z buyer is and how they treat it versus the typical Boxter buyer. That said, the ZR typically is attracting a slightly older crowd than the coupe, but I don't think that the lessor would differentiate between the two.
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Originally Posted by midlifecrises
Perhaps the outrageous lease price has to do with what Nissan expects the car to be worth (residual as stated before) when they get it back. Face it, you don't get too many 20-year olds leasing and beating up Boxsters, but you would get plenty that would like to do that with a Z. I would bet it has something to do with the demographics of who the typical Z buyer is and how they treat it versus the typical Boxter buyer. That said, the ZR typically is attracting a slightly older crowd than the coupe, but I don't think that the lessor would differentiate between the two.
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chickdr,
While pretty clear you understand the math behind the lease, I'm fearful you're renting your lifestyle. Bottom line - Leasing is a gentle stroll through a steaming pit of tremendous negative equity on your good credit. As you seem to be aware whenever you lease a car you go in knowing you're going to pay more in virtually every angle, just not right now. Let's examine the details: Captial cost reduction - money out the window, unrecoverable, why would your EVER put money down on a car that you'll never see the title. You only get to use a set number of miles a year, but you get to pay 100% of the sales tax, 100% of tag and title, and in personal property states such as mine 100% of those taxes, again money gone, security deposit - hope you don't trade it in early, gone too... Let's all keep in mind Nissan never gets the car back, the lender gets the car back, but we can all pretty much admit most people run the mileage up on the leases and trade them at 22, 34, or the 58th month with bald tires and 10k from the last oil change. Typically the dealer or bank over-inflated the residual, and the negative equity cycle deepens until about three leases down the road the buyer gives up on leasing, because it's too expensive. Leases fall into two categories, good for a business, or predatory lending. Are there good deals on leases out there, no. Can a dealer or manufacturer bundle a cheap payment on a closed or opened ended lease, absolutely. I'm really shocked that you know how to calcluate an effective interest rate, understand residualization and yet you still choose to lease. Usually people who understand leasing keep away from it like the Bird-Flu. |
Originally Posted by DiamondFlyer
chickdr,
While pretty clear you understand the math behind the lease, I'm fearful you're renting your lifestyle. Bottom line - Leasing is a gentle stroll through a steaming pit of tremendous negative equity on your good credit. As you seem to be aware whenever you lease a car you go in knowing you're going to pay more in virtually every angle, just not right now. Let's examine the details: Captial cost reduction - money out the window, unrecoverable, why would your EVER put money down on a car that you'll never see the title. You only get to use a set number of miles a year, but you get to pay 100% of the sales tax, 100% of tag and title, and in personal property states such as mine 100% of those taxes, again money gone, security deposit - hope you don't trade it in early, gone too... Let's all keep in mind Nissan never gets the car back, the lender gets the car back, but we can all pretty much admit most people run the mileage up on the leases and trade them at 22, 34, or the 58th month with bald tires and 10k from the last oil change. Typically the dealer or bank over-inflated the residual, and the negative equity cycle deepens until about three leases down the road the buyer gives up on leasing, because it's too expensive. Leases fall into two categories, good for a business, or predatory lending. Are there good deals on leases out there, no. Can a dealer or manufacturer bundle a cheap payment on a closed or opened ended lease, absolutely. I'm really shocked that you know how to calcluate an effective interest rate, understand residualization and yet you still choose to lease. Usually people who understand leasing keep away from it like the Bird-Flu. but alot of the same can be said for a purchase. "money out the window, unrecoverable, why would your EVER put money down on a car that you'll never see the title. " how many people ever pay a car off? how much is the car worth compared to what they paid for it? fact is, 90% of all purchases (not leases) are for 72 months, but yet the cars are traded after just 24-36 months.(the part of the loan that takes the biggest hit in depreciation). so they are hit ALOT worse than someone that just leased the car for 36 months. all you did with the purchase is rent the car as well. you never saw a title, and you paid more a month to rent it. leases arent for everybody. they are designed for someone that trades every 2to3 yrs and doesnt drive tremendous miles... but alot of people try to lease to get the lower payment. unfortunatly 80% of buyers are on too much car for their buget, thats why they lease or go longer terms on their purchase, so they can make it easier to afford from a monthly stand point |
I have to agree that the people I have known that leased, did it two times, and never again. They were, as he stated, renting the lifestyle, and since they weren't very financially astute people, they needed to be "burned" twice to get the message.
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fact is, 90% of all purchases (not leases) are for 72 months
Where did you get this figure? I would be amazed if 90% of all purchases are for 72 months! Yikes. Best financial plan: either pay cash or a get a reasonably short-term loan of not more than 50% of car's value, and own the car for at least three years after the payoff. Pay car payments to yourself in a savings account after the car is paid off, and use that money for your next one. Most people don't have the patience for that, plus life can change with marriage and kids arriving, or at the other end, with kids leaving home, so sometimes it's hard to own a car for more than 6 - 8 years. Still, financially, it's the best way to go. |
Originally Posted by DiamondFlyer
chickdr,
While pretty clear you understand the math behind the lease, I'm fearful you're renting your lifestyle. Bottom line - Leasing is a gentle stroll through a steaming pit of tremendous negative equity on your good credit. Don't really understand your logic. Leasing does nothing to impact my credit except help it if I pay on time. My credit rating is excellent- about 800 actually. I own a house have no other debt at all and contribute to my retirement plan every month. Leasing is perfect for me as I only drive my car about 4-5k a year and keep my cars in perfect condition. I also like to have my car under warranty at all times as it stresses me to worry about major repairs at my expense. I would rather have a constant known payment than the unknown of major repair bills... As you seem to be aware whenever you lease a car you go in knowing you're going to pay more in virtually every angle, just not right now. Let's examine the details: Captial cost reduction - money out the window, unrecoverable, why would your EVER put money down on a car that you'll never see the title. You only get to use a set number of miles a year, but you get to pay 100% of the sales tax, 100% of tag and title, and in personal property states such as mine 100% of those taxes, again money gone, security deposit - hope you don't trade it in early, gone too... Not in my case- the lease for the S2000 I will be picking up next week has no security deposit and no capitalized cost reduction either. I am allowed 12K a year and only use 5K. My current Boxster lease had a $350 dispositon fee when I turned the car in. With my extremely low mileage- it is being waived. With the 2000 Miata I had prior to my Boxster, the dealer took the car and ended my lease 8 mths early with no effect on my lease deal whatsoever. I always lease cars when they are NOT in high demand so that the manuafacturer is subsidizing the rate. As I said previously- the money factor on the S2000 lease works out to 1.4%. This is lower than virtually any loan out there and the car is not being sold at MSRP as it would be for a 0% deal from a manuafacturer. Let's all keep in mind Nissan never gets the car back, the lender gets the car back, but we can all pretty much admit most people run the mileage up on the leases and trade them at 22, 34, or the 58th month with bald tires and 10k from the last oil change. Typically the dealer or bank over-inflated the residual, and the negative equity cycle deepens until about three leases down the road the buyer gives up on leasing, because it's too expensive. If you do try an turn a car in with bald ties- you either lose the SD or get charged for the cost of new tires- unless of course you buy another from the same company and then things will be forgiven... An inspector is coming to look at my 2002 Boxster next week. Porsche Financial does this so there are no surprises at turn in. Leases fall into two categories, good for a business, or predatory lending. Are there good deals on leases out there, no. Can a dealer or manufacturer bundle a cheap payment on a closed or opened ended lease, absolutely. I'm really shocked that you know how to calcluate an effective interest rate, understand residualization and yet you still choose to lease. Usually people who understand leasing keep away from it like the Bird-Flu. |
Originally Posted by Morningglorie
fact is, 90% of all purchases (not leases) are for 72 months
Best financial plan: either pay cash or a get a reasonably short-term loan of not more than 50% of car's value, and own the car for at least three years after the payoff. Pay car payments to yourself in a savings account after the car is paid off, and use that money for your next one. Most people don't have the patience for that, plus life can change with marriage and kids arriving, or at the other end, with kids leaving home, so sometimes it's hard to own a car for more than 6 - 8 years. Still, financially, it's the best way to go. I heard an "effective interest rate" for leasing is about 15%....reason why the auto comapnies would rather lease than sell to you. |
Originally Posted by zcarz
I heard an "effective interest rate" for leasing is about 15%....reason why the auto comapnies would rather lease than sell to you.
Money Factor * 2400 There aren't any 15% rates except maybe for those with horrible credit scores. They will get screwed either buying or leasing as the rates will be higher. |
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