B Stock - Why doesn't STOCK mean stock?
 

B Stock - Why doesn't STOCK mean stock? There was an article in one of the SCCA magazines recently which covered this issue. It basically said that the current rules were made in the 70's when aftermarket parts were cheaper and not as good as OEM. Isn't it hilarious that it takes more than $5,000 to buy aftermarket parts to compete nationally in B Stock? Is it time to revise the rules?

Note that I have no plans to compete nationally ... ever. I merely bring this up for discussion's sake.

suspension - $2500(race spec koni)
sway bar - $300
cat-back - $3000(amuse titan including y-pipe)
brake pads - $500 (race spec f/r)
light weight wheels - $5000
r-compound treads - $1300
spark plugs and lines - $300
harness + harness bar/roll bar - $1200 (takata + bar)
steering wheel + knob set up - $450

driver training programs for 8 weekends at ~600 per weekend including wear and tear + lodging - $5000

you basically need $20000 to win

Rosko, I agree with that. Right off the bat you are up against R compound tires in BS, which puts you at a significant disadvantage. Stock should mean just that -- stock. Replacement street legal tires should be about the only allowable (tires do wear out). I think it is time to revise the rules. All the mods mentioned in Bee Ess Pee's post should push one into BSP! Rich

What all more can I use for BSP to be more competitive? Please give advice.

removal of amps and speakers, 17 or 18 inch wheels, shocks... probably the cheapest mods to be more competetive?

no,

shocks, front sway, cat back, brake pads, same sized wheels, comp spec tires, spark plugs, roll bar and harness are allowed...
also steering wheel no smaller than 1 inch of stock wheel is allowed

...
mods like springs, intake, slotted/drilled brake rotors etc will push you in to bsp...
so basically you buy the best products in the mods thats allowed ..

Bee Ess Pee, I think RocketRich is just saying that these expensive modifications you listed should put you into BSP. They don't, but they should.

You can discuss it all you want, but understand it's been discussed 1000k times over, and over, and over.

R Compounds are just as street legal as any other DOT approved tire you can purchase, so try another argument :).


As for you $20k competitive argument, that's not really close. IMO you can't calculate cost of driver education in, it's not something you can throw a number at.

For modifications, if you want to be competitive read this post

https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...79&postcount=8

But what do I know.

Not true if your stock wheel has an airbag, then you're SOL.

Hey, if you ended up having to run street tires... people would just go back to buying fresh street tires, shaving them down to the minimum tread depth... and end up spending as much or more. The good ol' days had a few draw backs. At least we don't have to worry about flat spots anymore!

BC

This post is ridiculous. If you can't win, fine, but don't spread misinformation which will discourage people who don't know any better. A $3000 exhaust?!? The exhausts on the three trophy-winning B Stock cars at last weekend's San Diego Tour combined cost around $1000. I have no idea where I could buy $5000 wheels even if I wanted them. I've never seen an autocross car with aftermarket spark plug lines. Etc., etc.

And for the record, the steering wheel and shift knob would put you in BSP. Read the rule book.

Steve

well... because if you have the best stuff and the best driving skills you should be able to win...
fyi... BBS wheels are 1000 a pop x 4 = 4000, they have custom made racing wheels that racing teams use those are like 10,000 dollars...
so i was going along with BBS's pricing...

the rules said you can have aftermarket steering wheel no less than 1 inch smaller than the stock but has to reserve airbag capabilitiies...
the momo one should do it... (check body interior exterior section)

yeah to all thought that was ridiculous but i was just listing the best items you can get to help your competetive cause... :p
the 3000 dollar amuse exhaust only weighs like 16lbs vs 64 of the nismo
big difference...

Perhaps you're refering to 13.2.e
"Alternate steering wheels are allowed, provided the outside
diameter is not changed by more than one inch from the standard
size. Steering wheels with an integral airbag may not be
changed."

So, like I said, you can't change the steering wheel if it has an airbag.

As for your "bbs" claim, just because it's the most expensive doesn't mean it's the best. I challenge you to make your $20k in mods and come to Nationals, we'll see where you finish compared to my car.

i need to complete my drivers training :p
i think i can be pretty good after some private training and some field experience
so... maybe in a year or two :D

well the car can be set up to its optimal to benefit the driver
but the key still lies on the driver to control the car...
thats why a highly tuned car can still be slower depending on the driver
but if same driver with A. the 20k set up or B. the more economical set up
A would still prevail...

You could throw all that money at the car and still lose to somebody in a slower car, no mods, with all seasons and is just a better driver. Spending 20k doesn't mean you are gonna win.

Shocks are expensive I'll give you that, but I think you could win on revalved Koni SA shocks. They are like $500.00
Swaybar, I like the hotchkis bar: $150.00
The best B stock exhaust is a muffler delete turn down pipe. total cost $50.00
Stock brake pads are fine.
Enkie rpf1: 1000.00
kumho v710 275/40/17: 1000.00
spark plugs line: you don't need them.
harness bar/harness: I still think most of these harness bars are illegal. dont need them.
steering wheel and knob: huh?
drivers training: what?
total $2700 + 350z.

well driver training is for ppl who need it...
to whip a talent free driver into a potential winner
seasoned drivers are alrdy trained so...

also muffler delete will only cut like 30lbs
and stock y-pipe is still very restrictive as we know (also mentioned by BMI) so... its best to replace that too...
full amuse Ti is known to put out great whp numbers and shed 40+lbs on top of that it isnt loud

i dont think stock pads are fine... based on my nismo pads exp. stock is terrible...

well as i said... with same driver, better mods will still make the difference...

just like any type of experiment... the driver is the control....

so u cant compare a good driver with decent car set up and a bad driver with the optimal car set up...
it has to be the same driver testing either set up

I'm not going to even comment on driver training but that has nothing to do with anything.

We can argue exhausts all day but what I'm saying is 40 lbs and 1 hp will
never be the factor that decides a Pro or NT win in a stock class.

The stock pads are prefectly fine for auto-x. They can lock the wheels and activate ABS,thats all you need. The don't fade at an auto-x so explain to me how different pads help.

Most of the the nationally prepped Z's are set up almost exactly as I described.

Very good answer. I had that one coming. I guess I was talking more about proformance mods. I will have to remove the sound system and wheels to get lighter. (and put some different wheels on)

The cheapest mod with the biggest benefits is lots of seat time.

Most cars, prepared to the limits of the rules, are easily under $5,000 in cost for parts. Evo schools are about $250 each for a day of OUTSTANDING instruction -- but like most instruction it takes some time for the lessons to really "take."