NASA ST4 for 2017 - MY350Z.COM - Nissan 350Z and 370Z Forum Discussion

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NASA ST4 for 2017

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Old 04-17-2016, 01:36 PM
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Default NASA ST4 for 2017

http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=131273

Thinking this is potentially very good news for 350Z
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:29 PM
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Yeah...good for folks who don't want to go extreme on weight. I may join if I can't find another 20-25whp.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:20 PM
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Waiting to see the rules but this could easily make a DE engined 350Z a perfect fit for that class.
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Old 04-18-2016, 05:58 AM
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I really like that NASA is implementing this rule-set. Though, I highly doubt I'll go this route with the Z, since it's my DD , but it's very cool to see this type of class expanding.

I'm curious to see the modification factors for this class, what will the p:w penalty be for..... running A7s over R7s, full aero, sub-frame replacements, external res. shocks, etc. I'm anxiously awaiting to see if they'll implement TT/ST5-6 as well. A power-to-weight class (without points) is actually less expensive and more efficient running costs on something like my TTE miata.
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:03 AM
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Yes, TTB will become TT4. With regard to TT/ST5, sounds like that is still being discussed as a possibility for 2018.
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:04 AM
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I won't lie, I love everything about open rule sets and building to a p/w. Is it expensive, of course, but it makes people even more creative IMO.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by armt350z View Post
Waiting to see the rules but this could easily make a DE engined 350Z a perfect fit for that class.
That was my thought also. Seems like the 350Z has always been the red-headed stepchild of road racing (both SCCA and NASA), so maybe it will finally find a home
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by reserved View Post
That was my thought also. Seems like the 350Z has always been the red-headed stepchild of road racing (both SCCA and NASA), so maybe it will finally find a home
True. I think since prices are bottoming out on DEs we'll start seeing them on track more often.(cheaper to fix after you wad it up).

As my Z currently sits and add 255 R7s, it falls into TTB with maxed out points and current wet-weight of 3350lbs-ish and 270rwhp/245tq. No aero though, which really hurts :-\ . All the control arms really eat up the points. Still could be competitive, at least regionally for sure.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:39 AM
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You would get eaten up by the TTB S2k's, etc. MAYBE some place like Road America, etc you could keep them honest with all the straight line speed.
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz View Post
You would get eaten up by the TTB S2k's, etc. MAYBE some place like Road America, etc you could keep them honest with all the straight line speed.
Yeah, the lack of aero makes it very questionable for any track. I think it could be a good contender at Road Atlanta and ViR at least. Regionally, most of the S2Ks are in TTC. Cathers is in TTB with his M3 though and I know I won't be beating him since he's consistently a couple of tenths off the records.

Oh, it's worth mentioning my minimum weight is 3225lbs with my track edition. I think when I ran the numbers it was better off starting with a base DE and then taking points for brakes.

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Old 04-18-2016, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz View Post
You would get eaten up by the TTB S2k's, etc.
Yep!!! Not even close
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Old 04-18-2016, 02:11 PM
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ST IS the answer the Z has been waiting for. We currently have 3 Z's running in NorCal, with another 2 or 3 on the way. It seems people really do recognize that these are great cars in a lot of ways, especially reliability, and now they finally have a place to shine. After Spec Z didn't take off in NorCal, we switched our focus to ST.

I took over leadership of the group in NorCal and pushed hard for the average HP rule we now use to help balance the 4 and 6 cylinder engines against V8's or cars with throttle plate limited flat power curves. The response has been overwhelmingly good.

BUT... ST3 power still requires an HR w/cams and headers, and some carbon bits. So now the push is to replace TTB/C with ST4. A basically stock DE (maybe some cams) and normal weight savings should be perfect for the class. An HR would probably have to de tune. Should be a cheap place to start racing your Z.

ST4 rules will largely be the same as ST3 I think, only at around 12:1, but that is still being discussed. I am personally pushing for a couple of tweaks to keep costs down, but NOT require people to have to throw away parts if they want to go up in class later. Basically I want to see ST4 not allow sequential trans at all, and only DOT slicks.

I think the cheapest build for the class would be to buy a DE (maybe add cams), gut and cage, throw on a wing and a splitter, a decent set of shocks, 10" wheels, and go have fun.
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Old 04-19-2016, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by B Esquire View Post
ST IS the answer the Z has been waiting for. We currently have 3 Z's running in NorCal, with another 2 or 3 on the way. It seems people really do recognize that these are great cars in a lot of ways, especially reliability, and now they finally have a place to shine. After Spec Z didn't take off in NorCal, we switched our focus to ST.

I took over leadership of the group in NorCal and pushed hard for the average HP rule we now use to help balance the 4 and 6 cylinder engines against V8's or cars with throttle plate limited flat power curves. The response has been overwhelmingly good.

BUT... ST3 power still requires an HR w/cams and headers, and some carbon bits. So now the push is to replace TTB/C with ST4. A basically stock DE (maybe some cams) and normal weight savings should be perfect for the class. An HR would probably have to de tune. Should be a cheap place to start racing your Z.

ST4 rules will largely be the same as ST3 I think, only at around 12:1, but that is still being discussed. I am personally pushing for a couple of tweaks to keep costs down, but NOT require people to have to throw away parts if they want to go up in class later. Basically I want to see ST4 not allow sequential trans at all, and only DOT slicks.

I think the cheapest build for the class would be to buy a DE (maybe add cams), gut and cage, throw on a wing and a splitter, a decent set of shocks, 10" wheels, and go have fun.

I've seen more Zs come out with NASA-Southeast within the 3 years I've been running with them, which is very encouraging. It would be great to start seeing more and more development on the chassis too. I'm pretty spoiled in that aspect with my miata and general costs on the miata are low. Though, after awhile you get tired of damn near every single car blow past you on the straight So putting the Z on the track is a possibility..... orrrr adding power to the miata

I would love to see a tweak in the ST4/5/6 rules that will eliminate A7s and similar. Yes, they're fun and extremely fast, but at the end of the weekend only one guy in class can take home some free contingency tires. While the rest of the field has to go buy a sticker set after two events just to be competitive. Honestly, when NASA made the A6 a 16 point tire that pushed me to run TT last year.

If anything else, the NASA rule-set is a breath of fresh air after 6-7 years of SCCA Solo rules. I'm sure Mike can definitely relate, lol.
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:02 AM
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That's why I went TT/ST3 where I just meet the p/w ratio and the res, for the most part, is no rule restricted.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Flier129 View Post
I've seen more Zs come out with NASA-Southeast within the 3 years I've been running with them, which is very encouraging. It would be great to start seeing more and more development on the chassis too. I'm pretty spoiled in that aspect with my miata and general costs on the miata are low. Though, after awhile you get tired of damn near every single car blow past you on the straight So putting the Z on the track is a possibility..... orrrr adding power to the miata

I would love to see a tweak in the ST4/5/6 rules that will eliminate A7s and similar. Yes, they're fun and extremely fast, but at the end of the weekend only one guy in class can take home some free contingency tires. While the rest of the field has to go buy a sticker set after two events just to be competitive. Honestly, when NASA made the A6 a 16 point tire that pushed me to run TT last year.

If anything else, the NASA rule-set is a breath of fresh air after 6-7 years of SCCA Solo rules. I'm sure Mike can definitely relate, lol.
Honestly everything I have heard, and am now testing, is that the A7 last just as long as the R7 as far as cycles go. I also just ran an A7 for the first time in a 30 minute race in 85+ temps and they lasted no problem. I don't see the need to make them illegal at this point. I would be interested to hear an argument for that though if there are some decent facts behind it.

I do want to make non-DOT's illegal though in ST4 and under.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by B Esquire View Post
Honestly everything I have heard, and am now testing, is that the A7 last just as long as the R7 as far as cycles go. I also just ran an A7 for the first time in a 30 minute race in 85+ temps and they lasted no problem. I don't see the need to make them illegal at this point. I would be interested to hear an argument for that though if there are some decent facts behind it.

I do want to make non-DOT's illegal though in ST4 and under.
Oh wow, that's good news. I just figured the A7s would wear just as fast as the A6s did in relation to the R6s.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:00 PM
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Even in auto-x it was obvious the 7's had a lot more life...
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:05 PM
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I don't think the A7's should be banned at all, we all choose our own tires. The A7 guys may scoop up some time when the asphalt temps are still sub 100, but once summer comes and they start over temping them then the R7's should step up and scoop up some wins.
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:12 PM
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Well, NASA ST4/TT4 rules were officially released today. On a positive note, the 350Z finally has found a home!!!!!!
Of course the down side is that (with the single exception of the Utah region) this is probably the official end of the Spec Z experiment.
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Old 11-26-2016, 05:22 AM
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St prep question for the track guys. For the HR is st4 or st5 the better home? St4 fully gut to 3100lb comp weight and run tune 260whp on 275s with aero (lands at around 12:1). If assume st5 will be 14:1 a stock build 3350/250whp on 245s for +0.7 and no aero +0.4 lands over 14:1.
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