Motion Control Suspension?
05-07-2017, 04:23 PM
#21
Its basically less of a compromise damper than a lay-person who wants more of a "Road and Track" hybrid setup would like, especially at the higher end of the damping range.
I cant speak to the hysteresis of either because I havent seen enough data either way.
Im not sure though how a DFV revalved will perform on a track dedicated car running 1000lb+ fronts and 700+lbs rears and sticky tires. Not implying one way or another, just saying Im not sure. And plus at that point there is more potential for a second revalve down the line, which would blow the initial cost savings of the Ohlins out the window.
Last edited by guitman32; 05-07-2017 at 04:27 PM.
07-13-2018, 11:12 AM
#25
I guess not a hot topic for discussion, but I myself have been pretty set on KW Clubsport for my 2008 for daily/HPDEs purpose (285/305 sticky street tires, stock motor), prices I've found online have been $2900~. This logically should be the set up I get, good quality, good support stateside, plug and play, tried and true for my purposes.
But against better judgment knowing the KW Clubsport will be cheaper and more plug and play I keep thinking about doing a custom set up starting with MCS 1 way non remotes. The benefit of this is having the ability to customize these shocks later on (revalves, rebuilds, upgrade to 2way adjustable and even remote reservoirs). Whereas KW does not do custom valving on their clubsports, only rebuilds to off the shelf specs.
MCS lists ~$2600 for their 1way adjustable, non-remote reservoir shocks, they quoted me $200 for their top mounts ($800 for a set), plus figuring out a spring mounting solution for the rear (almost $900 for SPL midlinks; or, I also called KW who said they will actually sell me the rear spring adjusters/perches for ~$250, the same ones on their clubsport kit and accepts 61mm ID springs).
I haven't made up my mind. Logically the KWs should work great, but the urge to tinker and throw excess $ on my car is strong. In all likelihood if I do go the MCS route I'll skip the expensive spherical bearing shock mounts and reuse the stock ones for the time being to cut down total cost.
If I do decide to go the MCS route I'll probably do a thread to contribute to the overall knowledge for the Z on the interwebz. I welcome any suggestions/comments.
But against better judgment knowing the KW Clubsport will be cheaper and more plug and play I keep thinking about doing a custom set up starting with MCS 1 way non remotes. The benefit of this is having the ability to customize these shocks later on (revalves, rebuilds, upgrade to 2way adjustable and even remote reservoirs). Whereas KW does not do custom valving on their clubsports, only rebuilds to off the shelf specs.
MCS lists ~$2600 for their 1way adjustable, non-remote reservoir shocks, they quoted me $200 for their top mounts ($800 for a set), plus figuring out a spring mounting solution for the rear (almost $900 for SPL midlinks; or, I also called KW who said they will actually sell me the rear spring adjusters/perches for ~$250, the same ones on their clubsport kit and accepts 61mm ID springs).
I haven't made up my mind. Logically the KWs should work great, but the urge to tinker and throw excess $ on my car is strong. In all likelihood if I do go the MCS route I'll skip the expensive spherical bearing shock mounts and reuse the stock ones for the time being to cut down total cost.
If I do decide to go the MCS route I'll probably do a thread to contribute to the overall knowledge for the Z on the interwebz. I welcome any suggestions/comments.
Last edited by heyyouduh; 07-13-2018 at 11:14 AM.
07-13-2018, 12:59 PM
#26
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A few interesting options. Easy button twin tube doubles vs more custom, monotube singles. And this isn't even bringing spring rates into the conversation...
Spec Z uses a KW Clubsport modified in some way, correct? I suppose that's an endorsement.
Are the Ohlins out of contention at this point?
The MCS won't be that hard to set up with springs and mounts. It ain't rocket surgery! Especially not having to contend with the side loading of struts.
Spec Z uses a KW Clubsport modified in some way, correct? I suppose that's an endorsement.
Are the Ohlins out of contention at this point?
The MCS won't be that hard to set up with springs and mounts. It ain't rocket surgery! Especially not having to contend with the side loading of struts.
07-13-2018, 01:46 PM
#27
A few interesting options. Easy button twin tube doubles vs more custom, monotube singles. And this isn't even bringing spring rates into the conversation...
Spec Z uses a KW Clubsport modified in some way, correct? I suppose that's an endorsement.
Are the Ohlins out of contention at this point?
The MCS won't be that hard to set up with springs and mounts. It ain't rocket surgery! Especially not having to contend with the side loading of struts.
Spec Z uses a KW Clubsport modified in some way, correct? I suppose that's an endorsement.
Are the Ohlins out of contention at this point?
The MCS won't be that hard to set up with springs and mounts. It ain't rocket surgery! Especially not having to contend with the side loading of struts.
not sure on which variant of KW spec Z uses.
ohlins seem nice, rear uses a progressive spring that's like non tapered and 90mm ID, so you'd have to use SPL midlinks or something to really get your choice of linear springs. but they are readily serviceable and re-valveable.
rocket surgery is easy! but not cheap, like the MCS unfortunately.
Last edited by heyyouduh; 07-13-2018 at 03:15 PM.
07-13-2018, 06:21 PM
#28
I wouldnt be going with the KW.
The Ohlins are great, id be giving them a serious look. Unless you plan on going full-bore competitive, in which case the MCS is the logical choice. I compete, but am not really at even close to full prep, which is why I went Ohlins. They are what I am running and they are great. Mine are revalved, and I run high spring rates, and definitely not running anywhere near full stiff on the dampers.
The MCS are proven and are being run by several folks. They perform just like Moton/JRZ/etc singles...they are all very similar units. Rear spring perch conversion is super easy just buy the BC Racing upper and lower and done. But to be honest if you are purchasing this caliber suspension you should be going true coilover rear, the benefits should be well worth it to you (ease of setup, corner balance, etc). If not, Ohlins is what you should buy. And put the difference to tires and track time.
The Ohlins are great, id be giving them a serious look. Unless you plan on going full-bore competitive, in which case the MCS is the logical choice. I compete, but am not really at even close to full prep, which is why I went Ohlins. They are what I am running and they are great. Mine are revalved, and I run high spring rates, and definitely not running anywhere near full stiff on the dampers.
The MCS are proven and are being run by several folks. They perform just like Moton/JRZ/etc singles...they are all very similar units. Rear spring perch conversion is super easy just buy the BC Racing upper and lower and done. But to be honest if you are purchasing this caliber suspension you should be going true coilover rear, the benefits should be well worth it to you (ease of setup, corner balance, etc). If not, Ohlins is what you should buy. And put the difference to tires and track time.
07-13-2018, 06:51 PM
#29
I wouldnt be going with the KW.
The Ohlins are great, id be giving them a serious look. Unless you plan on going full-bore competitive, in which case the MCS is the logical choice. I compete, but am not really at even close to full prep, which is why I went Ohlins. They are what I am running and they are great. Mine are revalved, and I run high spring rates, and definitely not running anywhere near full stiff on the dampers.
The MCS are proven and are being run by several folks. They perform just like Moton/JRZ/etc singles...they are all very similar units. Rear spring perch conversion is super easy just buy the BC Racing upper and lower and done. But to be honest if you are purchasing this caliber suspension you should be going true coilover rear, the benefits should be well worth it to you (ease of setup, corner balance, etc). If not, Ohlins is what you should buy. And put the difference to tires and track time.
The Ohlins are great, id be giving them a serious look. Unless you plan on going full-bore competitive, in which case the MCS is the logical choice. I compete, but am not really at even close to full prep, which is why I went Ohlins. They are what I am running and they are great. Mine are revalved, and I run high spring rates, and definitely not running anywhere near full stiff on the dampers.
The MCS are proven and are being run by several folks. They perform just like Moton/JRZ/etc singles...they are all very similar units. Rear spring perch conversion is super easy just buy the BC Racing upper and lower and done. But to be honest if you are purchasing this caliber suspension you should be going true coilover rear, the benefits should be well worth it to you (ease of setup, corner balance, etc). If not, Ohlins is what you should buy. And put the difference to tires and track time.
I thought I did call BC to ask, but maybe it was just Stance. Doh. I've been trying to see if KW would sell me their rear threaded adjusters to me or thinking that I had to get the SPL midlinks, would love it if a cheaper solution existed, regardless if I went to Ohlins or MCS, thanks I'll give them a call again.
Did you get yours revalved from Ohlins USA in North Carolina or a independent shop? I actually called PSI and they are able to service/rebuild/revalve them. They even will do a discounted revalve if you buy the coilovers from them (their site lists it for sale for $2250). They also come with 4 spherical bearing mounts versus the front ones only with the KW Clubsport. The only "con" is the inability to adjust compression and rebound separately. Starting to look like a really good option though...
Lastly, I haven't heard of any Z33 failures with a true coilover rear type, but have read some failures on older BMWs - I don't have a cage or anything to reinforce the rear shock tower area and I don't think the benefits outweigh the potential risk of failure, at least for now.
Last edited by heyyouduh; 07-13-2018 at 06:56 PM.
07-13-2018, 07:13 PM
#30
They arent bad, but really the only reason to go KWs is if for some reason you wanted to go to Spec Z, or would otherwise be penalized for going with a monotube setup or a larger piston diameter. They arent good enough to make me want them just for DA.
Agree that the area should be reinforced, but still never seen or heard of rear tower failure on a true coil Z.
I use PSI, they are great. And yea the value on the Ohlins is hard to beat...and the theory is that if they are designed and valved right, you wont need to adjust compression and rebound independent. And the Ohlins have been true to this form, for me anyway.
I have a bunch of experienced racers get lost in the valving. Usually once they are set, most dont dare touch it for fear of upsetting the black art suspension gods.
Agree that the area should be reinforced, but still never seen or heard of rear tower failure on a true coil Z.
I use PSI, they are great. And yea the value on the Ohlins is hard to beat...and the theory is that if they are designed and valved right, you wont need to adjust compression and rebound independent. And the Ohlins have been true to this form, for me anyway.
I have a bunch of experienced racers get lost in the valving. Usually once they are set, most dont dare touch it for fear of upsetting the black art suspension gods.
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