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Some back story: I've been running the same setup for a while now and am on my 3rd set of tires. I just rotated the tires and didn't notice any issue with the tires. I went to one event after tire rotation (and installing headers and hi-flow cats) and did 2 runs and got busted for sound before switching to a friends car for the rest of the event. When I got home and pulled the wheels the inside of the right front tire now looks like the pictures below.
The bad tire is next to a good tire in approximately the same location so you can see it wore through the treadwear and traction moldings on the side of the tire. There is no metal or cords showing through the groove that was worn in the tire. The groove is round in nature, where a finger tip fits just about perfect in it.
I measured the depth of the groove with calipers and is between .045 and ~ 0.055" all the way around the tire. I put the wheel and tire back on the car while it was up on jack stands. I've moved the steering lock to lock and do not see anything rubbing (this with the wheel hanging down). I then jacked up the tire as far as I could (compressing the suspension some) to the point that it almost lifted off the jack stand. I turned lock to lock again and again no rubbing.
There are also no witness marks on any suspension components. No paint worn off the sway bar, no extra rubber on an end-link bolt, nothing the naked eye can see anywhere.
No changes to the car in the suspension, only the header install. I've run the same 275/35R18 RE71R tires (as I said on my 3rd set) on the same 18x10.5 +15 wheels since the car was complete and no rubbing like this ever before.
Anyone seen this before, a specific ball joint on the front going bad and I just can't see it when turning the wheel?
Could something have gotten stuck between the tire and the upright for a moment? (again no witness marks on the upright, no scratches, clean or dirty marks, etc)
No one is going to be able to tell from here, but there must be an obviously loose bushing or joint simehere. Sometimes it will appear tight because of loading, so do an inspection where you physically look for movement, but also look for wear, disintegrated rubber, or a bushing which looks uncentered in its mount.
All of the bushings have been replaced with Whiteline. The compression arm whiteline bushings did fail quickly. I replaced with the Megan upgrade that look more like stock. From visual inspection all bushings are still ok, I also inspected all while turning the wheel and no visual deflection or tears when at full lock in either direction.
I also checked all the ball joints and did not see any physical issues or extra play when turning the wheel.
I will double check the wheel bearing but have not noticed any play when rotating the tires.
I appreciate all the responses. I'll update after more inspections.
I use the stuff to test my tire pressures - not to actually test the PSI but to check that the tires are properly inflated for hill runs and the like. It's an old AX/track trick of "painting" test marks on the tire shoulders to see how far your tires are rolling over (how far down the sidewall) and allows you to visually see if you need more or less pressure for particular track/course conditions.
You might be able use this trick too by applying it to the area that's cutting down and driving it a few blocks at low speed to see if you still have the issue - the polish will be rubbed off and it will be rubbed onto any interfering parts for quick visual. Since your one tire is already trashed and possibly down to the maximum "cut depth", try switching the good tire/wheel from the other side and try it with that one...going a very short distance to look for interference without also destroying that one.
Good luck, that seems like it should be an easy one to spot but with no visible "clean marks" on struts or anywhere, WTH!?
Yep, I use window chalk on the tires many times for auto-x to determine roll over of the tire. I could try putting some on the inside and see if there are any witness marks left.
I've driven the car around since the marks and on the street it doesn't get any worse. This was just normal driving though so I might need to be a bit more aggressive. There's a dead end that's a circle with no houses where I go scrub in new tires. I will try to make it out there and do a few fast circles in each direction and see if I can find the culprit.
With the same wheels on, go to an alignment shop (or somewhere with lift access - keep wheels on car and on ground) and inspect the inboard wheel side when turning the wheels lock to lock. Granted you're not fully loaded like when cornering, but it should help identify the rubbing area.
With the same wheels on, go to an alignment shop (or somewhere with lift access - keep wheels on car and on ground) and inspect the inboard wheel side when turning the wheels lock to lock. Granted you're not fully loaded like when cornering, but it should help identify the rubbing area.
Appreciate the idea and I've pretty much done this on my garage floor with a flash light and then with the car up on jack stands. I see potential rub spots but they're so far away from the tire I see no way tire deflection could make it rub. And it'd have to be one hell of a bad bearing, bushing, or ball joint. I've used a pry-bar in every angle I can think of and there's no more/less deflection on one side of the car vs the other.
I'm really beginning to think something got slightly wedged between the tire and the upright for a revolution or two and was spit out. Although there aren't any witness marks on the upright either, everything under the car is clean.
The other issue is the car is so low it deformed the W brace last time getting on an alignment rack. I ended up having to order another one. I've got some wood but have yet to have a free Saturday to make some wood extensions for the rack I use. So just putting it on a rack is not a possibility at this point.
I've got Rival S tires mounted on the wheels now. I'll be putting them back on tonight. If it ever stops raining I'll be taking a test drive with them and checking periodically as stated above. If not there's a local auto-x this Saturday so it'll just be trial by fire.
Having said that the Bridgestone tires I took off look ok in person. The one with the rubber worn off from rubbing has no visible signs of any issue on the inside of the carcass. I'm pretty sure it was just a slight rub and I could have run the old Bridgestone tires with no issues.
Ok, so I did my best to simulate a compressed shock with hard cornering in the garage. I've put the offending side (passenger front) on a ramp and turned the wheel to full lock (held at full lock with and adjustable rod) then lowered the car. The other wheels are on the ground, this gave a pretty good tuck to the wheel/tire:
Then I took photos of every spot that looked like it could rub. Here is the upright, which is the closest to the tire of any item. I should mention that I just had the Rival S mounted and they have a much bigger lip saver on them than the RE71R, so they're a bit closer than the Bridgestones but still a good gap:
Next picture shows the sway bar. I'd say it's at least 2" away, I could fit 3 fingers between it and the tire. It seems like something would have to be extremely wrong for the tire to rub it:
Next picture shows the shock hose for the remote canister. It's about 1" away from the tire. I doubt it would have worn the old tire down, I probably would have worn through the hose first. And again no witness marks to say it rubbed:
The Last picture shows a shot of how far away the uni-body and fender well plastics are from the tire. Pretty much no way it rubbed there:
At this point I think something small got wedged in the upright for a revolution or two of the tire and then worked it's way out. Or perhaps a big pothole or groove in the road cut the side of the tire. Nothing else seems close enough to have caused an issue. I also used a pry bar on every bushing, ball joint, etc and could not get any significant movement. For anything in the pictures to touch there would have had to been some severe movement.
Finally I took the car out to scrub the mold release off the new tires. I did circles in each direction until the tires were hot to the touch and tires no longer shiny. I then did a few larger figure 8's at faster speeds to try to simulate a bit of an auto-x scenario. There was absolutely no rubbing of any tires.
At this point I'm calling it good and have a local event tomorrow with a co-driver. We'll keep an eye on it and see if the rub returns.
I went to the local event, had a co-driver with me. No tire rub issues at all. The initial problem had to be something that got wedged between the tire and upright for a revolution or 2 and then spit out.
On the other had my car is now extremely loose with the Rival S tires vs the RE71R.
06-14-2017, 11:50 AM
Tire rub
