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Although the 2018 SCCA racing season is over, it's a good time to look at how our 15-year old 350Z is rated in door-to-door racing with other marques. The 2018 Sonoma Touring 3 Runoffs was won by a Mustang GT, with Spec E46 BMWs finishing second and third. Other competitors in the T3 class include older models like the Honda S2000, Mazda MX-5/RX8, Porsche Spec Boxter, and BMW Z4 M-Coupe. Newer models include the Alfa Romeo 4C, Mustang V6 Ecoboost, and 2017 Honda Civic Si and for the 2019 race season, the Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86 twin that is being moved up from T4 (where it has dominated),
After the Runoffs, I submitted a proposal to the SCCA Competition Board (CRB) to make the HR-equipped Zs more competitive. For 2018, we had to run lead ballast to finish races at 3,250# and run 37mm air restrictors. I proposed they drop 50# in weight and allow us to go back to (2017-spec) 40mm restrictors. It would allow the Z a bit more latitude in getting back to being competitive with the V8 Mustangs and BMWs. After CRB meetings in November, the answer has come down. Rather than allow any adjustments to just one model, the CRB elected to drop 75# off practically ALL T3 cars, including the faster Mustang and E46 BMWs, as well as the Z.
Don't get me wrong, it'll be a pleasure to remove that huge lead block bolted to the passenger side of my 350Z. But the fact that there was no adjustment to the intake restriction (of either the DE or HR) means the CRB has more than a healthy respect for the power potential of the VQ. For those who wonder how the Z33 stacks up against modern pony or sport cars, there's little doubt that in head-to-head competition, it's still feared as the overall package (braking, handling and acceleration) is so good. But the overall impact of these rulings mean the Z is being put at a severe disadvantage, and there's already rumors that some Nissan competitors may park their Zs in 2019 rather than race under such a rules package.
Nice to see that 38 years after Denver (then SCCA HQ decision making powers) f***ed us 2 liter roadster racers in DP by allowing Porsche to come in with their 924 "factory aftermarket" suspension and engine kits and not allowing us to even upsize our carbs to keep up, things haven't changed.
Come to NASA....the water is warm in power:weight racing.
I spent several years racing with NASA. Won the first Rocky Mountain Spec Z title and raced in TTB and PTB at different times from 2007-2010. Finished top 10 at the Mid-Ohio NASA NatIonals back when they held it there. In the end, I simply had to make a choice and prefer SCCA racing due to the way the races are run.
Nice to see that 38 years after Denver (then SCCA HQ decision making powers) f***ed us 2 liter roadster racers in DP by allowing Porsche to come in with their 924 "factory aftermarket" suspension and engine kits and not allowing us to even upsize our carbs to keep up, things haven't changed.
Note sarcasm.
Funny how history repeats itself, eh? Unfortunately, it seems the more current T3 cars are getting upgrades (less weight, bigger restrictors) to attract more competition. For 2019, I expect to see more Toyota 86 and Subi BRZs in the class, and with their low CG and almost 400# weight advantage, they should be on the pace right away. But I foresee the Mustangs and BMWs remaining as the fastest cars in this class for the coming year, as they handle well enough and TORQUE is king in road racing.
As for the Z, I've submitted yet another CRB request to allow the Zs to use the wider tires (275) allowed for the bigger cars (again, Mustangs and BMWs), rather than the smaller (245) max width used by the cars that weigh under 3000#. It's more for tire durability than speed, as the current spec DOT-R 245s may be as fast-- if not faster-- than 275s, but you get fewer heat cycles and races out of them. I can't afford to put on a new set of tires every session, but that's what has evolved over the years. I'll keep this thread updated as I hear back...
Just to clarify, my purpose in posting this thread was not JUST to ***** and moan about SCCA rule making (plenty of that going around already), but to start a discussion on the performance potential of the 350Z. The Z33 remains a championship contender even 15 years after it's introduction. Whether it's solo, rally or road racing, the legend of the Z continues to live on. Sometimes it's like entering a fight with one hand tied behind your back (37 mm restrictors, 3275# minimum weight and 245 max size tires in T3)--wait, make that one hand and one foot tied behind your back--but it makes it that much sweeter when you prevail!
This year some posters on this board have openly disparaged the Z by saying it doesn't offer much performance, but I think the Z33 is clearly more than just a pretty face. Beyond great brakes, handling and high-speed stability, the Z has exhibited strong durability. Case in point, a local team running BMW Z4 M-coupes had to change the lower front aluminum wishbones every few races as they would bend. It got bad enough that SCCA eventually granted them the use of substituting stronger M3 wishbones! The stamped steel lower wishbones on my '06 Z have never been replaced and continue to deliver repeatable suspension setup figures over the years. Despite repeated posts on this board about Z gearbox woes, Porsche Boxter racers have been known to replace their gearboxes after a season or two of SCCA racing to maximize their performance. And the list goes on and on...
Despite winning two championships in my comeback year (Touring 1 in RMDiv racing and T3 Mid-States Majors), there's some question on what to campaign next year. One potential project is to resurrect my GT3 tubeframe car and spend the bucks on getting it to run right:
But being a racer with limited time and money, the backup plan is always to have the T1/2/3 Z ready to race, as it's much easier to prep, transport and race. As one racer told me in the past: "you look like you've got a lot of **** and vinegar in ya" and he was right, I'm not done with racing the Z!
Couldnt agree more Mustangs et al fear the Z. They are lucky they have more natural grunt otherwise... and the transmission is a stout piece. The Zs forte is definitely durability.
Just to clarify, my purpose in posting this thread was not JUST to ***** and moan about SCCA rule making (plenty of that going around already), but to start a discussion on the performance potential of the 350Z. The Z33 remains a championship contender even 15 years after it's introduction. Whether it's solo, rally or road racing, the legend of the Z continues to live on. Sometimes it's like entering a fight with one hand tied behind your back (37 mm restrictors, 3275# minimum weight and 245 max size tires in T3)--wait, make that one hand and one foot tied behind your back--but it makes it that much sweeter when you prevail!
This year some posters on this board have openly disparaged the Z by saying it doesn't offer much performance, but I think the Z33 is clearly more than just a pretty face. Beyond great brakes, handling and high-speed stability, the Z has exhibited strong durability. Case in point, a local team running BMW Z4 M-coupes had to change the lower front aluminum wishbones every few races as they would bend. It got bad enough that SCCA eventually granted them the use of substituting stronger M3 wishbones! The stamped steel lower wishbones on my '06 Z have never been replaced and continue to deliver repeatable suspension setup figures over the years. Despite repeated posts on this board about Z gearbox woes, Porsche Boxter racers have been known to replace their gearboxes after a season or two of SCCA racing to maximize their performance. And the list goes on and on...
Despite winning two championships in my comeback year (Touring 1 in RMDiv racing and T3 Mid-States Majors), there's some question on what to campaign next year. One potential project is to resurrect my GT3 tubeframe car and spend the bucks on getting it to run right:
But being a racer with limited time and money, the backup plan is always to have the T1/2/3 Z ready to race, as it's much easier to prep, transport and race. As one racer told me in the past: "you look like you've got a lot of **** and vinegar in ya" and he was right, I'm not done with racing the Z!
^^^ ?!?! WHAT were you smokin' when you graphic'd out that car!! Dayam, David, that's some serious, uhhh, well, not exactly sure what to call that! Hahaha. Be interesting to hear more about that one. You mentioned "tube frame" at one time and I never knew what that was until now! We talkin' front half, full or ??? Would love to see more (especially pics) on this one.
But ya, I read a lot of the commentary about the Z's "lack of performance" and I just shake my head. Sure, one could always have more power, more stick, more turn-in, etc. And much of the commentary probably comes from a comparative market viewpoint where having 350-550 hp isn't that unusual anymore.
But, as an overall balanced car, I daresay that many who poo poo the car haven't or can't push it to 80% of its potential. And yes, here I go again, coming back to "driver skill versus what-the-car-can-do". My own perspective having spent some time on track in W2W, solo, and 45 years of safe hill runs is that the Z, with stock power and a few tweaks on the suspension (just to tune to my driving pref, not because it "needs" tweaking) is more than enough to have serious fun AND, be competitive after so many years of availability.
Hey, even 45 year old Z cars with 150-170hp stock are still competitive within their own classes.
Just to clarify, my purpose in posting this thread was not JUST to ***** and moan about SCCA rule making (plenty of that going around already), but to start a discussion on the performance potential of the 350Z. The Z33 remains a championship contender even 15 years after it's introduction. Whether it's solo, rally or road racing, the legend of the Z continues to live on. Sometimes it's like entering a fight with one hand tied behind your back (37 mm restrictors, 3275# minimum weight and 245 max size tires in T3)--wait, make that one hand and one foot tied behind your back--but it makes it that much sweeter when you prevail!
This year some posters on this board have openly disparaged the Z by saying it doesn't offer much performance, but I think the Z33 is clearly more than just a pretty face. Beyond great brakes, handling and high-speed stability, the Z has exhibited strong durability. Case in point, a local team running BMW Z4 M-coupes had to change the lower front aluminum wishbones every few races as they would bend. It got bad enough that SCCA eventually granted them the use of substituting stronger M3 wishbones! The stamped steel lower wishbones on my '06 Z have never been replaced and continue to deliver repeatable suspension setup figures over the years. Despite repeated posts on this board about Z gearbox woes, Porsche Boxter racers have been known to replace their gearboxes after a season or two of SCCA racing to maximize their performance. And the list goes on and on...
Despite winning two championships in my comeback year (Touring 1 in RMDiv racing and T3 Mid-States Majors), there's some question on what to campaign next year. One potential project is to resurrect my GT3 tubeframe car and spend the bucks on getting it to run right:
But being a racer with limited time and money, the backup plan is always to have the T1/2/3 Z ready to race, as it's much easier to prep, transport and race. As one racer told me in the past: "you look like you've got a lot of **** and vinegar in ya" and he was right, I'm not done with racing the Z!
I’ve got to chime in full agreement here albeit from a track day/HPDE view point. My 05 base model Z is an amazing tool for learning to drive fast due to the pure confidence that it inspires. When I started tracking two years ago I ran the car bone stock. Two years later I’m still running the stock suspension and all I’ve added are items to increase durability, sticky street tires and a square wheel set up. Each time I hit the track I beat my PB, for example when I first went to Auto Club Speedway Roval last year I was turning a painfully slow 2:11. This past weekend I turned a 2:06 and I know I can shave another second or two but I keep it under 125MPH on the straightaway since I have a wife and kids 😉 . Going in to turn 1 at 120+, the car is planted, stable and responsive but not twitchy. I have no aero, I’m running just 07 brakes not Brembos and never had brake fade. I could go on and on but you get the point; the 350z is a solid platform for the track dam shame that Nissan never exploited its full potential on the track or at the very least promote it for the amateur racers. keep fighting the good fight!
the 350z is a solid platform for the track dam shame that Nissan never exploited its full potential on the track or at the very least promote it for the amateur racers. keep fighting the good fight!
Actually, Nissan has provided contingency awards to attract talented amateur drivers to race the Z. That's resulted in multiple SCCA race wins and National championships for the marque over the past 15 years. In my case, the 2018 season resulted in a Touring 1 Rocky Mountain Division Championship and SCCA Touring 3 Mid-States Majors title. That's what I call exploiting some potential on the track!
And good on you for taking your Z to the track and learning about it in its natural habitat! YOU keep on fighting the good fight as well.
The latest rules update for the 2019 season is in and includes my request last month for larger tires in the Touring 3 class. The 245-40-18 BFGoodrich R-1S is the largest size allowed under the 2018 rules and my proposal was to allow up to a 275-spec tire on both the Z33 and Z34. This request was made to allow for better wear and more consistent/longer tire usage over the life of a set of tires. Practically speaking, other T3 cars in the Z's weight range (3275# for 2019) are allowed a 275 tire, and this would have evened the rules in this area.
This proposal was REJECTED by the SCCA comp board and makes it clear where the Z stands in the competition world. It's won enough in the past decade that SCCA continues to handicap it severely in T3. But as I've said previously, nobody is forcing me to compete in T3 with the Z. I could race in T1 or T2 with less weight, no restrictors and bigger tires. But that would put me up against Ferraris, Lambos, Audi R8s and Porsche GT3s in T1 and Corvette Z06 and the latest V8 Mustangs in T2. Ah, choices, choices- Merry Christmas everybody!
Keep fighting the good fight! In SCCA autocross it's been the dark horse but never quite there. I started in CS and was doing great until the ND MX5's basically made CS spec miata. Then I moved mine to STU and also felt great until talks of unlimited boost came out. Even though it hasn't gone through,, the turbo AWD cars seem to have found a strange performance bump. Hmmm.... Now the Z has been moved to DS, but so has the Civic Type R, Sti, Evo, and Focus RS. I'm keeping mine in STU and running TT/HPDE with it. I do well locally. Nationally it's a different story.
A good fight doesn't mean a fair fight! Let's face it, the Z33 is an older platform and hasn't been sold for a decade. Meanwhile, the SCCA is seeking to get new drivers and newer model cars into motorsports. Neither solo nor road racing rules are favorable towards the Z, and likely won't be in the foreseeable future.
Doesn't change the fact that the 350Z remains a potent sportscar that still fights above its fighting weight. It matches or exceeds the overall performance of most modern vehicles, and remains true to the legacy of the Z That legacy will continue to grow as long as Nissan racers are willing to stretch their talents and determination.
12-02-2018, 11:43 AM
2018-19 Racing Comparison
Dayam, David, that's some serious, uhhh, well, not exactly sure what to call that! Hahaha. Be interesting to hear more about that one. You mentioned "tube frame" at one time and I never knew what that was until now! We talkin' front half, full or ??? Would love to see more (especially pics) on this one.
Let's face it, the Z33 is an older platform and hasn't been sold for a decade. Meanwhile, the SCCA is seeking to get new drivers and newer model cars into motorsports. Neither solo nor road racing rules are favorable towards the Z, and likely won't be in the foreseeable future. 
